Is the material world an illusion?

[Student of X]

The problem is that most people use the 'waking state' as their standard of reality. There are levels of reality that are 'more real' than that and so are a more powerful standard.

 

[PolyHedral]

Put a comma after "changes," that might help.

Things that appear and disappear aren't necessarily illusions, though.

 

[Infinitum]

I think the material world is an illusion in the sense that we humans never percieve more than a small fragment of it. We're at the mercy of our senses and even more our brain, which is practicly editing all incoming information based on how useful it is at the moment. So at least we live in an illusion regardless of whether the rest of the world is actually real or not.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I think the material world is an illusion in the sense that we humans never percieve more than a small fragment of it. We're at the mercy of our senses and even more our brain, which is practicly editing all incoming information based on how useful it is at the moment. So at least we live in an illusion regardless of whether the rest of the world is actually real or not.

Exactly.

 

[Student of X]

I think the material world is an illusion in the sense that we humans never percieve more than a small fragment of it. We're at the mercy of our senses and even more our brain, which is practicly editing all incoming information based on how useful it is at the moment. So at least we live in an illusion regardless of whether the rest of the world is actually real or not.

That would make it more like a symbol than an illusion, imo.

"Every natural fact is a symbol of some spiritual fact." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The problem is that most people use the 'waking state' as their standard of reality. There are levels of reality that are 'more real' than that and so are a more powerful standard.

Which levels of reality do you view as being "more real"?

I'm having problems with exactly how to define "real" as opposed to "unreal", myself.

 

[Willamena]

Things that appear and disappear aren't necessarily illusions, though.

They are in the sense that they do not appear permanent.

 

[PolyHedral]

I think the material world is an illusion in the sense that we humans never percieve more than a small fragment of it. We're at the mercy of our senses and even more our brain, which is practicly editing all incoming information based on how useful it is at the moment. So at least we live in an illusion regardless of whether the rest of the world is actually real or not.

That's not an illusion, though. Merely selective editing.

 

[Willamena]

That's not an illusion, though. Merely selective editing.

What is an illusion, then?

Edit: To have selectively edited a portion of a picture of the world as "significant," and focus on that bit to the exclusion of all else; and then to become aware that this has happened, and that there is more to the picture than meets the eye. Sounds like illusion to me.

 

[Student of X]

Which levels of reality do you view as being "more real"?

Well they go by different names in different mystical traditions. In Hindu terms Turiya is more real than our waking state.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Well they go by different names in different mystical traditions. In Hindu terms Turiya is more real than our waking state.

Okay. I see what you mean.

 

[Infinitum]

That would make it more like a symbol than an illusion, imo.

"Every natural fact is a symbol of some spiritual fact." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

I'd say a symbol is more a simplification of something or an allegory of something else. Illusion on the other hand is, to quote the dictionary, "anything that seems to be something that it is not".

 

[Infinitum]

What is an illusion, then?

Edit: To have selectively edited a portion of a picture of the world as "significant," and focus on that bit to the exclusion of all else; and then to become aware that this has happened, and that there is more to the picture than meets the eye. Sounds like illusion to me.

I agree. Illusions sometimes also add things that don't actually exist (like an optical illusion, where you think the picture moves when it doesn't). An illusion in the wide sense can be said to be anything that's distorted from reality.

 

[Willamena]

I'd say a symbol is more a simplification of something or an allegory of something else. Illusion on the other hand is, to quote the dictionary, "anything that seems to be something that it is not".

A symbol is that, but it has the unique quality of actually and completely taking the place of the thing it symbolises, to the extent that those things symbolised don't even have to be present to be "present". It that sense, it's more like a dignitary.

Edit: The material world we see, that mental image, is the material world (reality) dignified.

(Or, to quote The Tick, "OOH! Shiny!")

 

[Reverend Rick]

Here is what I think....

[youtube]XgBEaZK0rFo[/youtube]
STYX-- Grand illusion - YouTube

 

[Infinitum]

A symbol is that, but it has the unique quality of actually and completely taking the place of the thing it symbolises, to the extent that those things symbolised don't even have to be present to be "present".

Hm.. True, I forgot that.

I'm not sure what you mean with something being a dignitary, though. Blame that on english being my third language. The only explanation for the word I found was: "an important or influential person, or one of high rank or position". But we're not talking about people, are we.

 

[Willamena]

Hm.. True, I forgot that.

I'm not sure what you mean with something being a dignitary, though. Blame that on english being my third language. The only explanation for the word I found was: "an important or influential person, or one of high rank or position". But we're not talking about people, are we.

The "high ranking person" can be an ambassador of his nation, representing his nation at a summit, or the leader of a political party, representing his party and its ideas and agenda at a conference. He takes the place of his nation or his party.

 

[atanu]

Are orgasms illusions?

I exist, aware of bliss of situations. Situations are ephemeral.

 

[chinu]

Why or why not?

Material world is an illusion because of Man, and material world is not an illusion because illusion is for man, man is not for the illusion.

In very easy words illusion is not entangled in the man, Man is entangled in the illusion.

 

[nameless]

I don't think it is an illusion, if you cut your self you bleed, that is no illusion.

The same can happen during dream also, does it mean dream is not an illusion?