"Is the Mormon church a Christian denomination?"

[Skwim]

Came across the following and am curious as to what you think of the Mormon faith in relation to Christianity..

" 'Is the Mormon church a Christian denomination?' NO. Mormonism is not Christian because it denies some of the essential doctrines of Christianity, including: 1) the deity of Christ, 2) salvation by grace, and 3) the bodily resurrection of Christ. Furthermore, Mormon doctrine contradicts the Christian teaching of monotheism and undermines the authority and reliability of the Bible."
source
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Personally, I consider any person who claims to be a Christian, is a Christian.

.

 

[Nietzsche]

Mormons are Christians. Anyone who says otherwise generally does so because they don't believe anyone but they and their own sect are Christians, which makes them absolutely precious. Really, this is the litmus test for Christian;

Do you like that Jesus of Nazareth fellow? Yes? You probably qualify, have fun.

 

[Katzpur]

Came across the following and am curious as to what you think of the Mormon faith in relation to Christianity..

" 'Is the Mormon church a Christian denomination?' NO. Mormonism is not Christian because it denies some of the essential doctrines of Christianity, including: 1) the deity of Christ, 2) salvation by grace, and 3) the bodily resurrection of Christ. Furthermore, Mormon doctrine contradicts the Christian teaching of monotheism and undermines the authority and reliability of the Bible."​

Here's what strikes me as weird. Point #1 is false. Mormons absolutely accept the deity of Christ. Point #2 is false. Mormons believe that we are saved by grace. Point #3 is false. Mormons believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ. Some people are such idiots.​

 

[Glaurung]

Personally, I consider any person who claims to be a Christian, is a Christian.

Which is why we should dismiss the word as pretty much meaningless at this point.

I don't care what anyone calls themselves, I know what my faith is and Mormons do not share it to any meaningful degree.

 

[Glaurung]

Here's what strikes me as weird. Point #1 is false. Mormons absolutely accept the deity of Christ. Point #2 is false. Mormons believe that we are saved by grace. Point #3 is false. Mormons believe in the bodily resurrection of Christ. Some people are such idiots.

It is more than a little dishonest to claim that you accept the divinity of Christ without the qualification that you believe it in polytheistic sense. You use the same terms as traditional Christianity, but use them to mean contrary things.

 

[Skwim]

Which is why we should dismiss the word as pretty much meaningless at this point.

Don't have to do it on my account.

I don't care what anyone calls themselves, I know what my faith is and Mormons do not share it to any meaningful degree.

So, do you consider them Christians or not?

.

 

[Glaurung]

So, do you consider them Christians or not?

The short answer is no.

The long answer is that the doctrinal differences between Mormonism and Christianity (within the context of this discussion) are big enough that I would argue that Mormonism constitutes its own distinct religious tradition as related to Christianity as it may be. We're not talking about the differences between Lutheranism, Anglicanism, Eastern Orthodoxy and Catholicism here; the differences are real and serious, but they pale in comparison with the claims Mormonism makes.

 

[Katzpur]

It is more than a little dishonest to claim that you accept the divinity of Christ without the qualification that you believe it in polytheistic sense.

Well, there's nothing like calling someone dishonest to get a civil dialogue going. I'm sorry you see me as dishonest, but that's your problem, not mine. We Mormons do not accept the Nicene Creed as inspired of God or as an accurate description of the nature of God, if that's what you're getting at. But here, from The Book of Mormon (which is as authoritative statement as you're going to find anywhere on our beliefs), are two statements which clearly state our understanding of the relationship between God the Father and His Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ.

2 Nephi 31:21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end.

Mormon 7:7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.

You use the same terms as traditional Christianity, but use them to mean contrary things.

Would you care to provide me with an example or two. I can't very well be expected to even try to refute such a vague claim.

P.S. I just noticed, Musing Bassist, that you are Roman Catholic. Wow, that's really disappointing to hear. I guess I'll have to take back the compliments I've recently paid to Catholics. You're not very typical of the ones I've run into in the past.

 

[Glaurung]

Well, I'm sorry you see me as dishonest, but that's your problem, not mine. We Mormons do not accept the Nicene Creed as inspired of God or as an accurate description of the nature of God, if that's what you're getting at.

I'm pointing out that minimising doctrinal differences with orthodox sounding language is deceptive. Smith was clear, the Trinity is comprised of three distinct gods which is utterly anathema.

2 Nephi 31:21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end.

Do you mean one god in three persons, or three gods acting as one godhead? Smith himself was clear about this.

I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods.”12

 

[Katzpur]

I'm pointing out that minimising doctrinal differences with orthodox sounding language is deceptive. Smith was clear, the Trinity is comprised of three distinct gods which is utterly anathema.

I would never minimize doctrinal differences, but I would never misrepresent what someone else believes, either. We believe in the Godhead of the Bible, which is comprised of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. These are three physically distinct personages who are one in mind, purpose, will and heart. They function as a single God, even though any of the three of them may be referred to individually as "God." In other words, I can be speaking of Jesus Christ when I say that God himself took upon himself the sins of mankind and died to redeem mankind. When I use the word "God," in that context, I am not referring to God the Father, but to the Son. They are not merely two different "aspects" of one God.

Do you mean one god in three persons, or three gods acting as one godhead. Smith was clear about this.

Apparently not clear enough for you. Somehow I have a feeling I know what Joseph Smith believed and taught better than you do. Joseph Smith (in the quote you posted) was using the word "God" as I used it in my example.

 

[Glaurung]

Would you care to provide me with an example or two. I can't very well be expected to even try to refute such a vague claim.

For one, that you claim to believe in one godhead whilst simultaneously downplaying that this godhead are three distinct gods. You know perfectly well this is not what most Christians mean by the godhead.

P.S. I just noticed, Musing Bassist, that you are Roman Catholic. Wow, that's really disappointing to hear. I guess I'll have to take back the compliments I've recently paid to Catholics. You're not very typical of the ones I've run into in the past.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Mormons or think you're all going to Hell. But I am not here to promote happy feelings and false ecumenism. My Chruch is clear, your religion is false and I'm not going to shy from that because you may dislike it. Especially considering that your own creed claims the exact same thing about everyone else. We're all apostates right?

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Came across the following and am curious as to what you think of the Mormon faith in relation to Christianity..

" 'Is the Mormon church a Christian denomination?' NO. Mormonism is not Christian because it denies some of the essential doctrines of Christianity, including: 1) the deity of Christ, 2) salvation by grace, and 3) the bodily resurrection of Christ. Furthermore, Mormon doctrine contradicts the Christian teaching of monotheism and undermines the authority and reliability of the Bible."
source
​

Personally, I consider any person who claims to be a Christian, is a Christian.

.

Oh, we are discussing evolution are we.

A simple test would be to breed an LDS person with an Evangelical and see if anything pops out in 9 months.

 

[Katzpur]

For one, that you claim to believe in one godhead whilst simultaneously downplaying that this godhead are three distinct gods. You know perfectly well this is not what most Christians mean by the godhead.

We are as forthright in our explanation of what we believe about the Godhead as can possibly be. We don't hide from our beliefs, but when you accuse us of being polytheists, it's about as offensive to us (not to mention inaccurate) as it would be to you if I claimed Catholics are cannibals because they believe in the doctrine of Transubstantiation.

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate Mormons or think you're all going to Hell. But I am not here to promote happy feelings and false ecumenism.

Trust me, I'm not about promoting false ecumenism any more than you are, but I see no need to make accusations that serve no point other than to mislead. I am always willing to acknowledge differences between Mormonism and other Christian denominations, but I hardly see looking for common ground as something to be avoided at all costs.

My Church is clear, your religion is false and I'm not going to shy from that because you may dislike that. Especially coming from someone whose own creed claims the exact same thing about everyone else.

I don't know which creed you're referring to. Last I knew, Mormons don't even have a creed. Maybe I didn't get the latest memo or something.

I don't care if you believe my church is false, since that's what I believe yours is, at least to some extent. One of the things I admire most about Catholics is that most of them really do have a strong conviction that their church is "the only true church." Protestants, on the other hand, seem to believe most of the 30,000 denominations of Christianity are all more or less "good enough." I guess the difference between you and me (and most Mormons, when you get right down to it) is that if someone claims to believe that Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God and the only means by which we might attain salvation, and if that person claims to follow Christ and does His best to live a life that is compatible with what he believes the teachings of Christ to be, then he is a Christian. We may not believe that Catholicism is teaching 100% true doctrines, but we do recognize that there is much that is good and true within your church. That holds true for other Christian denominations, as well. In other words, we believe it to be entirely possible for a person to be a "Christian" and still not have perfectly accurate theology.

 

[Glaurung]

I don't know which creed you're referring to. Last I knew, Mormons don't even have a creed. Maybe I didn't get the latest memo or something.

By creed in this instance I mean your belief system in general, not a specific dogmatic formulation.

don't care if you believe my church is false. I believe yours is, at least to some extent.

That's what I'm saying, so you should not get upset that on a doctrinal level I'm hostile to Mormonism. It doesn't mean I dislike you on a personal level.

I guess the difference between you and me (and most Mormons, when you get right down to it) is that if someone claims to believe that Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God and the only means by which we might attain salvation, and if that person claims to follow Christ and does His best to live a life that is compatible with what he believes the teachings of Christ to be, then he is a Christian.

Too vague. To me, the name Christian carries concrete doctrinal commitments which Mormonism rejects. Protestants for the most part have at least held to most of those commitments (albeit in often heretical forms) thus I can at least seem them holding a misguided notion of the Christian faith. Mormonism claims a new prophet, has its own unique scriptures and is doctrinally incompatible with any other line of mainstream Christian thought. And if you believe that your religion is correct ayway then you shouldn't even care if you're considered Christian or not to begin with.

We may not believe that other Christian denominations are teaching 100% true doctrines, but we do recognize that there is much that is good and true within all of them. In other words, a person may be a "Christian" and still not have perfectly accurate theology.

Yes but when theologies say utterly opposed things it gets to the point when the word Christian becomes bereft of all meaning. The notion that you can believe almost anything so long as you have some notion of Jesus as divine as still be a "Christian" is something I will not accept. No matter how many Mormons and atheists insist otherwise. To think so is a form of a heresy known as indifferentism.

 

[Father Heathen]

Yeah, it's a form of Christianity.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Came across the following and am curious as to what you think of the Mormon faith in relation to Christianity..

" 'Is the Mormon church a Christian denomination?' NO. Mormonism is not Christian because it denies some of the essential doctrines of Christianity, including: 1) the deity of Christ, 2) salvation by grace, and 3) the bodily resurrection of Christ. Furthermore, Mormon doctrine contradicts the Christian teaching of monotheism and undermines the authority and reliability of the Bible."
source
​

Personally, I consider any person who claims to be a Christian, is a Christian.

.

Christians are always having these difference about essential doctrine. The different denominations are all right, and all wrong. Mormons are Christians.

 

[Alison Wonderland]

Mormons are Christians. Anyone who says otherwise generally does so because they don't believe anyone but they and their own sect are Christians, which makes them absolutely precious. Really, this is the litmus test for Christian;

Do you like that Jesus of Nazareth fellow? Yes? You probably qualify, have fun.

Lame.

 

[Alison Wonderland]

Came across the following and am curious as to what you think of the Mormon faith in relation to Christianity..

" 'Is the Mormon church a Christian denomination?' NO. Mormonism is not Christian because it denies some of the essential doctrines of Christianity, including: 1) the deity of Christ, 2) salvation by grace, and 3) the bodily resurrection of Christ. Furthermore, Mormon doctrine contradicts the Christian teaching of monotheism and undermines the authority and reliability of the Bible."
source
​

Personally, I consider any person who claims to be a Christian, is a Christian.

.

I would tend to agree that anyone who considers themselves whatever they want to call themselves whatever they want to be what they profess themselves to be. We're talking about religion; not something as firm and important as science and philosophy.

Mormons believe Jesus lived in Missouri and turned all Native Americans skin red for being sinful. They're nothing more than a racist organization draped in the perverted USA ideal of freedom of religion. The only reason they get a pass is because they don't have a leader feeding them rat sac and kool aid.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

"Is the Mormon church a Christian denomination?"

Of course. They believe in the efficacy of redemption through Christ's crucifixion & resurrection, they believe the Bible is the Word of God (as far as it's translated correctly) and they believe in the efficacy of salvation through grace though they also believe that 'salvation without works is dead'. To be honest I'm not sure why, for so many Christians, that last one is an either/or. I'm not sure why it's so hard to grasp that someone can believe salvation through Christ won't be as meaningful if you don't emulate Jesus' example through compassion, charity & kindness.

 

[Katzpur]

Mormons believe Jesus lived in Missouri and turned all Native Americans skin red for being sinful.

What are you smoking down there in Wonderland, Alice?