"Is the Mormon church a Christian denomination?"

[metis]

No, Mormons aren't Christian by the established standard of Christianity.

Nope, but just what is this "established standard of Christianity"? And who established it?

I agree with you, Skwim, so you might want to reconsider.

 

[Politesse]

Last I checked, we only had one King, and he never said anything about trying to keep people out of the Dominion he was building.

 

[shmogie]

I agree with you, Skwim, so you might want to reconsider.

If you believe that men are made Gods, if you believe Christ wasn't resurrected bodily, if you do not believe salvation is by faith, and faith alone, You are not adhering to fundamental Christian beliefs, but there are others. What always gets lost in these discussions is the fact that each person will ultimately stand before God as an individual, not as a denominational representative or a doctrinal encyclopedia. That is why there is the mystical body of Christ, all those, whoever they are, who are saved by God. By doctrine, mormonism doesn't meet the standard of a Christian church. God judges individuals, not doctrines

 

[shmogie]

Speaking from my own personal experience as a former Mormon, now a Christian, I am of the perspective that Mormonism is not a Christian denomination. Mormonism is a man-made religion in my view, as are all religions. Even "Christian denominations" at times can fall into this category of being a "religion" when the focus moves to the leader, organization, rituals, ordinances, or rules rather than biblical gospel which about a living relationship with Jesus Christ and trusting Him alone and His saving grace for all that is needed for salvation and eternal life. Many who were at one time committed Mormons have come to realize that Jesus is Enough...

"Through the power of God’s Word and by the grace of God, all four of us have been unshackled from religious bonds, rescued out of Mormonism, and brought into a personal and saving relationship with Jesus. By the transforming power of the Gospel, we who once were blind, lost, and dead are now new creations in the Lord Jesus Christ; the old has passed away, and the new has come."

Adam's Road Ministry | "I am not ashamed of the Gospel"

Excellent post !! Christianity is not about religion, it is about an individual relationship with God, acceptance of the purely free gift of salvation given through Christ, faith in He and his gift, and following the direction of the Spirit

 

[Katzpur]

I think the very scriptures you posted are examples of what he's talking about of using the same terminology but with different meaning.

Undoubtedly. But the way we are using the word "one" is more in line with the way the Bible describes them as "one." In His great intercessory prayer, Jesus asks His Father to make His disciples be "one," even as the two of them (the Father and the Son) were "one." He clearly wasn't asking that we all be absorbed into a single essence.

So what's your answer to the OP, Watchman? Is the Mormon Church a Christian denomination or not?

 

[Katzpur]

No, Mormons aren't Christian by the established standard of Christianity.

Maybe not. But that's not the standard that's going to count when I stand before God to be judged.

 

[Katzpur]

What constitutes "the true Faith" ? It is very simple.

If it were very simple, we all agree on what it is.

God is concerned about an individuals relationship to he and others. Christ and the Apostles gave very clear instruction on this. None are difficult to understand. The foundation is the substitutionary nature of Christ's life. and death imputed to us as our life and death, accepted by faith and faith alone.

As long as that faith is a living faith, as evidenced by the way we show Jesus Christ how much we love Him, I would agree with everything else you said.

Nevertheless, we all stand in the judgement as an individual, not as an ambassador for a denomination.

Agreed.

The same standard applies to all, Do you believe Jesus Christ died for you, lived for you, and suffered for you, and how have you applied that in your life ?

I believe that with all my heart and it influences every decision I make in life. It has made me want to honor Him in everything I do.

 

[shmogie]

Maybe not. But that's not the standard that's going to count when I stand before God to be judged.

Well, that is the wonderful thing, we have total free will to choose what what we believe, and how those beliefs ultimately will be viewed by God as the result of our choice. Some beliefs will hold accountability for us. It is completely, yours, mine, or anybody else's totally free choice.

 

[Katzpur]

If belief in the bodily resurrection is essential to being Christian, then the first Christians - weren't. They believed that the resurrection was of the spirit.

Yes, but Jesus quickly corrected them on that matter.

 

[Katzpur]

It's no more dishonest than when Trinitarian Christians do this.

Good point. Pretty much every Muslim I know considers Christianity a polytheistic religion, and it's because of the Christian doctrine of the Trinity.

 

[metis]

If you believe that men are made Gods, if you believe Christ wasn't resurrected bodily, if you do not believe salvation is by faith, and faith alone, You are not adhering to fundamental Christian beliefs, but there are others.

The issue of salvation by faith alone actually is from Luther's misinterpretation of what Paul actually wrote and explained, plus Jesus in the gospels says differently. Also, the issue as to the nature of Jesus vis-a-vis God was hotly debated in the early centuries of the church.

That is why there is the mystical body of Christ, all those, whoever they are, who are saved by God. By doctrine, mormonism doesn't meet the standard of a Christian church. God judges individuals, not doctrines

And you just cited a doctrine yourself.

According to John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." Notice the simplicity of that statement, largely devoid of some of the things you say are mandatory.

Also, I would suggest letting God do the judging.
.

 

[shmogie]

Good point. Pretty much every Muslim I know considers Christianity a polytheistic religion, and it's because of the Christian doctrine of the Trinity.

Hmmm, well, I am not particularly concerned about the judgement of moslems. I went through an Arian phase, believing Christ was created, and rejecting the Godhead ( some call it the trinity). However extended study on the matter made me revise my thinking. We as humans sometimes want to have complete understanding of things we cannot understand, we cannot understand the complete nature of GOD. God is a being with three points of consciousness, we as humans only have one, and we don't clearly understand that one. One of these points of consciousness is dominant over the other two. Each are totally connected, but can exist separately, they re God. Another crude way of looking at it, Bill Smith owns a company, he is in total charge, Jim Smith, his son, has complete and total authority when his father chooses to give it to him. Tom Smith, Bill's nephew, has certain very specified important tasks in the company. No decision is made without consultation of the three. They are all Smith's, they are all the management team of the company, they are all individuals. It is , in my opinion, very difficult to come to any other view from the NT, unless you change the text as my friends the JW's have, or you have extra Biblical equivalent in authority, sources as others have done

 

[metis]

Christianity is not about religion, it is about an individual relationship with God, acceptance of the purely free gift of salvation given through Christ, faith in He and his gift, and following the direction of the Spirit

But there is a scriptural mandate to meet in community that shouldn't be ignored. There very much is a role for the individual but there also is a role for the church as community. IOW, according to the scriptures, Christianity was not meant to be a "just do your own thing"-type of religion.

 

[shmogie]

The issue of salvation by faith alone actually is from Luther's misinterpretation of what Paul actually wrote and explained, plus Jesus in the gospels says differently. Also, the issue as to the nature of Jesus vis-a-vis God was hotly debated in the early centuries of the church.

And you just cited a doctrine yourself.

According to John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." Notice the simplicity of that statement, largely devoid of some of the things you say are mandatory.

Also, I would suggest letting God do the judging.
.

Don't respond to me, I have learned it is only a matter of time before you begin hurling slurs. Over and over again your exegesis has proven faulty. I have discovered you aren't worthy of my time. BLOCKED

 

[metis]

Don't respond to me, I have learned it is only a matter of time before you begin hurling slurs. Over and over again your exegesis has proven faulty. I have discovered you aren't worthy of my time. BLOCKED

And exactly where did I "hurl slurs", and exactly where was my exegesis "faulty", and isn't it rather insulting on your part to state that I'm "not worthy of [your] time"? If you want me "BLOCKED", that's fine, but it doesn't make sense to do it because you think I might do something down the road.

BTW, if my memory is correct, I do believe I put you on my own ignore list at least twice (I don't leave a person on it for long with only a couple of exceptions) for some of your over-the-top sarcastic statements in the past.

Oh well.

 

[Katzpur]

Another crude way of looking at it, Bill Smith owns a company, he is in total charge, Jim Smith, his son, has complete and total authority when his father chooses to give it to him. Tom Smith, Bill's nephew, has certain very specified important tasks in the company. No decision is made without consultation of the three. They are all Smith's, they are all the management team of the company, they are all individuals.

However crude an example that may be, I see it as being a reasonably accurate description of how I see the Godhead. With respect to the three individuals within the God head, they are, in a very real sense, "one God." And yet each one, individually, may be referred to as "God." One synonym most dictionaries give for the word "Godhead" is "God." When all three are referred to as a single entity (e.g. your "management team"), the word "God" refers to the Godhead. It is a collective noun, referring to a single entity comprised of multiple individuals. But when I am speaking of Jesus Christ as "God," I am using a title that He, by virtue of the fact that He is part of the Godhead, is entitled to. He isn't just 1/3 God; He is "God." That's how I refer to Him, but it's also how I refer to His Father and to the Holy Ghost when I am speaking of them individually.

 

[Milton Platt]

Came across the following and am curious as to what you think of the Mormon faith in relation to Christianity..

" 'Is the Mormon church a Christian denomination?' NO. Mormonism is not Christian because it denies some of the essential doctrines of Christianity, including: 1) the deity of Christ, 2) salvation by grace, and 3) the bodily resurrection of Christ. Furthermore, Mormon doctrine contradicts the Christian teaching of monotheism and undermines the authority and reliability of the Bible."
source
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Personally, I consider any person who claims to be a Christian, is a Christian.

.

Impossible to answer.....how a person answers depends upon which Christian sect the person you are asking belongs to. There is no ultimate arbiter of what is Christian. To those who are not Christian, it isn't even a question to ask.

 

[Milton Platt]

And exactly where did I "hurl slurs", and exactly where was my exegesis "faulty", and isn't it rather insulting on your part to state that I'm "not worthy of [your] time"? If you want me "BLOCKED", that's fine, but it doesn't make sense to do it because you think I might do something down the road.

BTW, if my memory is correct, I do believe I put you on my own ignore list at least twice (I don't leave a person on it for long with only a couple of exceptions) for some of your over-the-top sarcastic statements in the past.

Oh well.

"Hurl slurs"??? Say that ten times really fast. LOL

 

[shmogie]

However crude an example that may be, I see it as being a reasonably accurate description of how I see the Godhead. With respect to the three individuals within the God head, they are, in a very real sense, "one God." And yet each one, individually, may be referred to as "God." One synonym most dictionaries give for the word "Godhead" is "God." When all three are referred to as a single entity (e.g. your "management team"), the word "God" refers to the Godhead. It is a collective noun, referring to a single entity comprised of multiple individuals. But when I am speaking of Jesus Christ as "God," I am using a title that He, by virtue of the fact that He is part of the Godhead, is entitled to. He isn't just 1/3 God; He is "God." That's how I refer to Him, but it's also how I refer to His Father and to the Holy Ghost when I am speaking of them individually.

Agreed

 

[Milton Platt]

Agreed

Can you describe how that is possible? If you devide an entity into three parts, one part cannot be the entire entity.