I think so. Mormons are Christian. It's certainly a different brand, but I think a reasonable definition of Christian can be broad enough to include Mormons.
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"Is the Mormon church a Christian denomination?"
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
I think so. Mormons are Christian. It's certainly a different brand, but I think a reasonable definition of Christian can be broad enough to include Mormons.
It may be polytheistic by Jewish and Islamic standards, but that doesn't make the doctrine dishonest. The Trinity stresses that there is no distinction between the three persons in essence as one God. God is one being. Mormonism (if we go by what its founder explicitly said) states that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are ontologically distinct in being.
If you wanted to make an argument for Christian polytheism, I'd suggest you attack the devotion to the saints. You could plausibly consider it a form of soft polytheism.
Alison Wonderland
Member
What are you smoking down there in Wonderland, Alice?
The opinions of Trey Parker and Matt Stone - two men who satirized Mormomism down to what it is: an avenue for a more peverted branch of USA religious freedom with humor rather than hate.
- Jesus existing in North America
- American Natives having their skin turned red due to their sinfulness
- Joseph Smith figuring it all out after the age of enlightenment with zero verifiable evidence (a garbage claim bordering on cult-like prepositions)
- Mormonism has been an official racist organization until around the 1970s when it became uncool
Whatever I'm smoking man; you need a hit; you're way off. It's shocking that there are people like you in first world countries who entertain these ideas.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
They are listed among Christian Denominations in the en.wikipedia.com page:
List of Christian denominations - Wikipedia
All religious organizations could call themselves "Christians" - it is their claim but having doctrines which are truly the gospel of Christ remains to be proven.
The website you referenced as Is Mormonism Christian?
Said: 'Is the Mormon church a Christian denomination?' NO. Mormonism is not Christian because it denies some of the essential doctrines of Christianity, including:
1) the deity of Christ,
2) salvation by grace, and
3) the bodily resurrection of Christ.
On 1) the deity of Christ, it is a fact that Jesus never said he is God nor the apostles preached that Jesus is God. In fact what is said Jesus is a man, the Son of God, the Son of Man, man mediator, heavenly man, man seated at the right hand of God.
What they have is another gospel - which is the Book of Mormons and other doctrines concocted by their leaders to form part of Mormon doctrines.
They believe their Jesus visited North America upon ascension to heaven to see the Indians.
- They believe their Jesus is the brother of Satan
- They believe they have their own planet
- They believe in the Baptism of the Dead
- They believe in the continuing and successive living prophets
- They believe they could be gods like the Godhead
I believe they are entitled to their dreams and beliefs. When the Lord's Day comes, they will know if their faith is true.
There are over 34,000 Christian denominations in the world, that is 34,000 set of beliefs not conforming to each other.
I think it is better that each person should really seek the one which leads to salvation. We might find ourselves in the predicament of saying this church is not Christian when in fact the church we are in is also not Christian.
Would I agree with you that Mormons are not Christian?
I think I have to say, yes I agree with you.
So that is 34,000 - 1 = 33,999 to go.
It makes it internally contradictory: 1 = 3.
That sounds like modalism, not trinitarianism. In trinitarianism, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are each distinct persons. Neither is the other, but each - separately and together - is God.
Trinitarianism is contradictory on this point. It says that the Father, Son & Holy Spirit are distinct (being distinct persons) and not (since they are all God). I'd say that it leans more toward the position that each of the persons of the Trinity is ontologically distinct, since the Trinitarian view doesn't consider each person in the Trinity "a third of God"; each person IS God. It's just that all three considered together are also God.
To the thread in general:
I realized another reason to consider Mormonism a type of Christianity, though I'd bet most of our Mormon members would disagree:
It's an offshoot of Protestantism.
A radical offshoot with many beliefs that differ from mainstream Protestantism, certainly, but in a historical sense, it grew out of the Protestant Second Great Awakening.
I realized another reason to consider Mormonism a type of Christianity, though I'd bet most of our Mormon members would disagree:
It's an offshoot of Protestantism.
A radical offshoot with many beliefs that differ from mainstream Protestantism, certainly, but in a historical sense, it grew out of the Protestant Second Great Awakening.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
You're right. Most of us would agree. The Protestants' intention was to reform Catholicism. Mormonism's intention was not to "reform" Protestantism or anything else.
And if it had originated 300 years earlier as part of the Protestant Reformation, right alongside Lutheranism and Methodism, you'd consider it to be Protestant.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
And who gets to determine which doctrines "are truly the gospel of Christ"?
I have already pointed out that every one of these statements is categorically false. So much for the referenced website.
You got a couple of these points right, and several wrong. I guess I'd give you a "C-."
Or maybe they're all "Christian" in that they all look to Jesus Christ for salvation. Maybe they are right about some of what they believe and wrong about other parts. I don't personally believe that a person has to get 100% correct on God's equivalent of an ACT test in order to be considered "Christian." God wants us to know the truth, but He's so petty as to work in that way.
I thought that its intention was to restore the Church to what Christ intended. In that regard, it wasn't really that different from the Baptist and Methodist movements that were also surging in popularity at the same time.
I didn't say that Mormonism is Protestant; I said that it's an offshoot from Protestantism.
BTW: Methodism arose about 200 years after the Protestant Reformation.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
We could explore the gospel of Christ but not with the Almas, Nephis - none of that gold plates in Egyptian hieroglyphics - only the Bible.
Let us say 33,999 + 1 = 34,000 again to go? There is only 1 truth and 33,999 lies. Wouldn't you agree?
Not all roads go to heaven. Only one - the narrow road with the narrow gate.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Well, you'll see it as splitting hairs, but reestablishing something from the ground up is not the same as reforming something that already exists.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Says who?
No, I wouldn't. Misunderstandings are not lies, in my opinion. I don't believe it is mathematically possible for any more than 1 (at the most) of those 34,000 different denominations to all be 100% true (i.e. "true" as in "accurate" or "correct"), though, if that's what you mean.
I don't see it quite that simplistically, but I would agree with you, that in the end, there is only one means by which one may be saved and that is through the Atonement of Jesus Christ.
Skwim
Veteran Member
The Bible never records Jesus saying the precise words, “I am god.” That does not mean, however, that he did not allude to himself as God.
John 10:30,
“I and the Father are one.”
John 8:58
“I tell you the truth … before Abraham was born, I am!”
.
I did say right off the bat that most Mormons would disagree with my position.
I do see a distinction between those two things, but I don't believe that the LDS Church was actually the "re-establishment" of anything. I see it as a response to - while drawing itself from - the Christianity that surrounded Joseph Smith... i.e. mostly the rapidly-changing Protestantism of the Second Great Awakening. IOW, I think that Mormonism is a reform movement, even though I realize that it considers itself not a reform movement.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Understood.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
Sometime we draw conclusions to ourselves and we find such understanding to be a mistake. Sure, I and the Father are one and it is recorded - is it literal or metaphorically mentioned?
The best way is to check the whole context why my Lord Jesus said it:
John 10:25-30 New International Version (NIV)
Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”
If you would note - the Lord Jesus said - My Father...is greater than all
Where is the Lord Jesus and the Father one? Did he say, physically we are one? In substance we are one? Or based on his words - no one will snatch them (sheep) out of my hand and my Father's hand?
Let us check another version of the bible -
Jesus answered, “I told you, but you don’t believe. Everything I have done has been authorized by my Father, actions that speak louder than words. You don’t believe because you’re not my sheep. My sheep recognize my voice. I know them, and they follow me. I give them real and eternal life. They are protected from the Destroyer for good. No one can steal them from out of my hand. The Father who put them under my care is so much greater than the Destroyer and Thief. No one could ever get them away from him. I and the Father are one heart and mind.”
So I think I and the Father are one is I and the Father are one heart and mind.
Another thing, would you find it so puzzling that the Holy Spirit was left out? How come? So I think and believe, that this verse does not prove the deity of my Lord Jesus.
How about John 8:58 “I tell you the truth … before Abraham was born, I am!”?
Why did Jesus said that and referenced Abraham? Isn't it Adam, Eve, Abel and Cain, Noah were people before Abraham, am I correct?
- Before Abraham was born, Adam and Eve were there.
- Before Abraham was born, Abel and Cain were there.
- Before Abraham was born, Noah and the other 7 survivors and the animals in the ark were there. Not to mention the people, the Nephelims and animals that perished.
Does the verse prove the deity of my Lord Jesus? Of course not, otherwise Adam and Eve, and the people who lived before Abraham was born are deities.
How then is the truth behind - before Abraham was born, I am!”
And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.” Genesis 3:15
The passage is about the Lord Jesus Christ as spoken by God to the ancient serpent (the devil). Who will crush the head of the devil? It is the Lord Jesus and this was fulfilled in Calvary. Therefore, I believe that 'before Abraham was born, Jesus is!”
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
Huh? But I think of one.
Ephesians 4:4-6 New International Version (NIV)
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
If it is recorded in your bible, I think that is to be believed.
Indian Iconoclast
Member
A widower or a widow getting remarried does not come under the ambit of polygamy under any law universally.
Does the Mormon Church consider a widow/widower remarriage polygamy?
Please pardon me if I have misunderstood your text.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Huh?
I do believe it. You're wasting your time trying to convince me of something I already believe. Jesus Christ is the sole means by which we may be saved. I just see the timeline by which people will find the "straight and narrow road" as being different than you do.
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Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
You are absolutely right, and if it did, Mormons would not be able to do so. Mormons believe that a "sealing" performed by one holding a certain God-given authority unites a couple not only for this life, but for the next. If a widower was "sealed" to his deceased wife, and is also "sealed" to another woman when he remarries, we believe God will honor both marriages as eternal in nature. There's nothing illegal about it, and these days, it's pretty rare.
No, we don't. Penguin is just being argumentative and deliberately obtuse.
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