"Is the Mormon church a Christian denomination?"

[MJFlores]

Huh?

I do believe it. You're wasting your time trying to convince me of something I already believe. Jesus Christ is the sole means by which we may be saved. I just see the timeline by which people will find the "straight and narrow road" as being different than you do.

Wow you knew that!

Ephesians 4:4-6 New International Version (NIV)

There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

I thought Mormons believe the Godhead

Mormons understand that there are many gods and goddesses in the cosmos, including a Heavenly Mother. However, the three persons of Godhead (God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost) are to be the only objects of worship. that humans can become like God.
Becoming Like God

Well that's dandy for Mormons, but I believe in one God and Father of all

 

[1robin]

Came across the following and am curious as to what you think of the Mormon faith in relation to Christianity..

" 'Is the Mormon church a Christian denomination?' NO. Mormonism is not Christian because it denies some of the essential doctrines of Christianity, including: 1) the deity of Christ, 2) salvation by grace, and 3) the bodily resurrection of Christ. Furthermore, Mormon doctrine contradicts the Christian teaching of monotheism and undermines the authority and reliability of the Bible."
source
​

Personally, I consider any person who claims to be a Christian, is a Christian.

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Your claims are kind of illegitimate.

1. What makes a person a Christian is not whether they claim to be or not.
2. What makes a person a Christian or not is not what denomination they belong to.
3. What makes a person a Christian is what Christ said:

"There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came by night, and said unto Him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (verses 1-3).
"Born From Above" or "Born Again"?

4. As for LDS, I believe it contains Christians, despite its texts contradicting the bible.

 

[Katzpur]

Wow you knew that!

Why are you so surprised?

Ephesians 4:4-6 New International Version (NIV)

There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

We would agree with that entirely. We also believe what 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 has to say (KJV): For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

I thought Mormons believe the Godhead

We do. It appears that you and I are talking right past one another. We believe in the Godhead, as described in the Bible; we do not accept the doctrine of the Trinity, as formulated by the Council at Nicaea in 325 A.D.

Well that's dandy for Mormons, but I believe in one God and Father of all

Jeesh! So do Mormons! In other words, we don't believe that God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, are part of a single substance and are simply different manifestations of that substance. We believe them to be one in will, purpose, mind and heart, but not one being. Plus, we believe that God the Father reigns supreme. In other words, we believe that the Son has always been and will always be subordinate to the Father.

 

[Skwim]

Your claims are kind of illegitimate.

1. What makes a person a Christian is not whether they claim to be or not.
2. What makes a person a Christian or not is not what denomination they belong to.
3. What makes a person a Christian is what Christ said:

"There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came by night, and said unto Him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God" (verses 1-3).
"Born From Above" or "Born Again"?

4. As for LDS, I believe it contains Christians, despite its texts contradicting the bible.

In other words, a person cannot be a Christian unless they're born again as spelled out by "The Seven Times Journal: A Non-Denominational Web Site Teaching The Real Truth of God."

Okay. To each his own.

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[1robin]

In other words, a person cannot be a Christian unless they're born again as spelled out by "The Seven Times Journal: A Non-Denominational Web Site Teaching The Real Truth of God."

Okay. To each his own.

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You know very well that both I and the website I linked you two were quoting from John "the revelator" who was quoting Christ. I chose a non-denominational site to show that denomination was irrelevant. Feigning ignorance of that is intellectually dishonest, and a symptom of a failed argument.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No, we don't. Penguin is just being argumentative and deliberately obtuse.

It seems like you just did:

"If a widower was "sealed" to his deceased wife, and is also "sealed" to another woman when he remarries, we believe God will honor both marriages as eternal in nature."

 

[Skwim]

You know very well that both I and the website I linked you two were quoting from John "the revelator" who was quoting Christ. I chose a non-denominational site to show that denomination was irrelevant. Feigning ignorance of that is intellectually dishonest, and a symptom of a failed argument.

To tell you the truth I didn't bother reading any of the website. It was enough to know that in citing it you agreed with whatever it said---why else cite it. Which would mean a person cannot be a Christian unless they're born again as spelled out by "The Seven Times Journal: A Non-Denominational Web Site Teaching The Real Truth of God."

Is this true or not? If not then why bother citing it?

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[Katzpur]

It seems like you just did:

"If a widower was "sealed" to his deceased wife, and is also "sealed" to another woman when he remarries, we believe God will honor both marriages as eternal in nature."

Polygamy is a socio-cultural term pertaining to a person having more than one living spouse at one time. You know that as well as I do. It's illegal here in the U.S. and in most countries in the world. What happens in the next life (you know... that life you don't even believe exists) is beside the point, because in the next life (if one does, in fact, exist) the rules are not going to be man's but God's.

 

[Katzpur]

You know very well that both I and the website I linked you two were quoting from John "the revelator" who was quoting Christ. I chose a non-denominational site to show that denomination was irrelevant. Feigning ignorance of that is intellectually dishonest, and a symptom of a failed argument.

You need to quote the person whose remarks you are addressing. Otherwise, nobody knows who it is you're talking to. I'm assuming that you are addressing two posters here, but I can only guess which two it is.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Polygamy is a socio-cultural term pertaining to a person having more than one living spouse at one time. You know that as well as I do.

Pertaining to having more than one spouse, period.

We don't normally consider a remarried widow or widower a polygamist because the death of one of the spouses is considered to end the marriage.

It's illegal here in the U.S. and in most countries in the world. What happens in the next life (you know... that life you don't even believe exists) is beside the point, because in the next life (if one does, in fact, exist) the rules are not going to be man's but God's.

"Polygamy will be allowed in the next life" is a different statement from "polygamy is not allowed."

My own beliefs are irrelevant, because we're talking about *Mormon* attitudes to polygamy. When a Mormon says "I don't support polygamy" while trying to set up a future polygamist arrangement, the fact that *I* don't think the future he expects will ever come to pass has no bearing on what his intended outcome is, or on the fact that he actually does support polygamy in certain circumstances.

 

[Katzpur]

Pertaining to having more than one spouse, period.

We don't normally consider a remarried widow or widower a polygamist because the death of one of the spouses is considered to end the marriage.


"Polygamy will be allowed in the next life" is a different statement from "polygamy is not allowed."

My own beliefs are irrelevant, because we're talking about *Mormon* attitudes to polygamy. When a Mormon says "I don't support polygamy" while trying to set up a future polygamist arrangement, the fact that *I* don't think the future he expects will ever come to pass has no bearing on what his intended outcome is, or on the fact that he actually does support polygamy in certain circumstances.

This conversation is going around in circles. You're going to spin it your way no matter what I say, so I've said all I'm going to on the subject. Now pat yourself on the back, declare yourself the winner, and let's just let it go.

 

[1robin]

To tell you the truth I didn't bother reading any of the website. It was enough to know that in citing it you agreed with whatever it said---why else cite it. Which would mean a person cannot be a Christian unless they're born again as spelled out by "The Seven Times Journal: A Non-Denominational Web Site Teaching The Real Truth of God."

Is this true or not? If not then why bother citing it?

.

Another example of what assuming usually results in.

I primarily just wanted a quote from the book of John containing a verse or two, my second priority was that it not be a denominational based creed. I thought you sincerely wanted to know what makes a person a Christian. I gave you the most authoritative definition in existence. That does not mean I have to agree with everything else on the web site. This is boring so I am just going to bypass all your equivocations.

What it means to be a believer (Christian) according the highest authority possible:

New International Version
Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."

New Living Translation
Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of God."

English Standard Version
Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Berean Study Bible
Jesus replied, "Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

Berean Literal Bible
Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, except anyone be born from above, he is not able to see the kingdom of God."

New American Standard Bible
Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."

King James Bible
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Jesus replied, "I assure you: Unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.""

International Standard Version
Jesus replied to him, "Truly, I tell you emphatically, unless a person is born from above he cannot see the kingdom of God."

NET Bible
Jesus replied, "I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

New Heart English Bible
Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I tell you, unless one is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God."

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Yeshua answered and said to him: “Timeless truth I am telling you: If a person is not born again, it is impossible for that one to see the Kingdom of God.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Jesus replied to Nicodemus, "I can guarantee this truth: No one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above."

New American Standard 1977
Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Jubilee Bible 2000
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a person be born again from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

King James 2000 Bible
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

American King James Version
Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

American Standard Version
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Jesus answered, and said to him: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Darby Bible Translation
Jesus answered and said to him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except any one be born anew he cannot see the kingdom of God.

English Revised Version
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Webster's Bible Translation
Jesus answered and said to him, Verily, verily, I say to thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Weymouth New Testament
"In most solemn truth I tell you," answered Jesus, "that unless a man is born anew he cannot see the Kingdom of God."

World English Bible
Jesus answered him, "Most certainly, I tell you, unless one is born anew, he can't see the Kingdom of God."

Young's Literal Translation
Jesus answered and said to him, 'Verily, verily, I say to thee, If any one may not be born from above, he is not able to see the reign of God;'

John 3:3 Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."

You can also find the greatest commentaries from the last 2000 years concerning that verse at the link given.

 

[paarsurrey]

"Is the Mormon church a Christian denomination?"

Are the Christians a denomination of the Judaism? Please
Regards

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

This conversation is going around in circles. You're going to spin it your way no matter what I say, so I've said all I'm going to on the subject. Now pat yourself on the back, declare yourself the winner, and let's just let it go.

It isn't spin; it's approaching the issue honestly. You're the one trying to spin things so that one man married to multiple women at the same time somehow isn't polygamy.

 

[1robin]

You need to quote the person whose remarks you are addressing. Otherwise, nobody knows who it is you're talking to. I'm assuming that you are addressing two posters here, but I can only guess which two it is.

I did and I have. Go back to post #105, it contains everything you said it lacks. Both who, and what they said, were contained in the post you claim were missing them both. It did wind up having the word "two" instead of "to" in it somehow, but I usually assume those I am in a discussion with are intelligent enough to recognize an obvious typing mistake. When I hit send I only review the formatting, sometimes I don't even have time to do that. You punted on our last discussion and quit. Why are you re-engaging me, especially concerning a typing mistake?

 

[Katzpur]

It isn't spin; it's approaching the issue honestly. You're the one trying to spin things so that one man married to multiple women at the same time somehow isn't polygamy.

You punted on our last discussion and quit. Why are you re-engaging me, especially concerning a typing mistake?

No comment. A discussion with either of you at this point is a complete waste of time. I've got better things to do than go around in circles repeating myself.

 

[Skwim]

Another example of what assuming usually results in.

I primarily just wanted a quote from the book of John containing a verse or two, my second priority was that it not be a denominational based creed. I thought you sincerely wanted to know what makes a person a Christian.

I did, which is why when you gave me the requirements: One must be born again, I said Okay. To each his own.

I gave you the most authoritative definition in existence. That does not mean I have to agree with everything else on the web site.

Which is why I was careful to limit it to the necessity of being born again: "a person cannot be a Christian unless they're born again as spelled out by "The Seven Times Journal . . ."

What it means to be a believer (Christian) according the highest authority possible:

And as I said. Okay. To each his own.

.

 

[1robin]

"Is the Mormon church a Christian denomination?"

Are the Christians a denomination of the Judaism? Please
Regards

Thanks, I laughed for 10 minutes after reading what you posted. Did you mean it as a joke?

 

[1robin]

No comment. A discussion with either of you at this point is a complete waste of time. I've got better things to do than go around in circles repeating myself.

Looks like this is a habitual thing with you.

 

[1robin]

I did, which is why when you gave me the requirements: One must be born again, I said Okay. To each his own.

That is like saying that the answer to 2 + 2 = "to each his own number" is valid. Regardless, this is about as close as I expect you to ever get to common ground so I will take it.

Which is why I was careful to limit it to the necessity of being born again: "a person cannot be a Christian unless they're born again as spelled out by "The Seven Times Journal . . ."

Are you saying that you agree that we must be born again is a core Christian doctrine but you take issue with some description of being born again contained at the site I linked my verses to?

And as I said. Okay. To each his own.

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Again this is like saying whether gravity exists or not are equally valid positions to have before jumping off a cliff. Christianity is what Christ said it to be, it is not malleable depending on each person's preference.