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Is the name "Muhammad" holy?

gnostic

The Lost One
you don't see us muslims making fun of jesus or moses or what ever other religions believe. we know that it is very offencive. just as it is to us.

Sorry, but I would disagree. You have the right to be offended, but they the Danish cartoonists to choose their subject matters.

The nature of cartoon, especially caricature, is to make fun of public figures. Public figures can range from head of state and politicians (including the majors) to celebrities. Muhammad is a public figure, as much as Noah, Moses and Jesus. I have seen caricature or cartoon.

Are they offensive? I supposed they are, but I don't take it seriously.

I am not sure how old caricatures, but it existed at least as far back as the late 18th century.

Murder is murder. If you murder a cartoonist simply because you are offended, then you should be branded as a murderer. No matter how offensive they are, you can't take the law into your own hand.

What they did, may have been offensive, but it was not against the law to draw such cartoons.
 

Gharib

I want Khilafah back
Sorry, but I would disagree. You have the right to be offended, but they the Danish cartoonists to choose their subject matters.

The nature of cartoon, especially caricature, is to make fun of public figures. Public figures can range from head of state and politicians (including the majors) to celebrities. Muhammad is a public figure, as much as Noah, Moses and Jesus. I have seen caricature or cartoon.

Are they offensive? I supposed they are, but I don't take it seriously.

I am not sure how old caricatures, but it existed at least as far back as the late 18th century.

Murder is murder. If you murder a cartoonist simply because you are offended, then you should be branded as a murderer. No matter how offensive they are, you can't take the law into your own hand.

What they did, may have been offensive, but it was not against the law to draw such cartoons.

the problem is though that we do not know what Muhammed (saws) looked. so to have some weirdo making fun of our prophet that is not a good thing,

and please do not try to post any pictures on here i would not like to see them, just incase.
 

Kodanshi

StygnosticA
Sorry, but I would disagree. You have the right to be offended, but they the Danish cartoonists to choose their subject matters.

The nature of cartoon, especially caricature, is to make fun of public figures. Public figures can range from head of state and politicians (including the majors) to celebrities. Muhammad is a public figure, as much as Noah, Moses and Jesus. I have seen caricature or cartoon.

Are they offensive? I supposed they are, but I don't take it seriously.

I am not sure how old caricatures, but it existed at least as far back as the late 18th century.

Murder is murder. If you murder a cartoonist simply because you are offended, then you should be branded as a murderer. No matter how offensive they are, you can't take the law into your own hand.

What they did, may have been offensive, but it was not against the law to draw such cartoons.

Unfortunately, they are simply following the example of Muhammad, who had assassinated poets who made satirical poems about him.
 

Gharib

I want Khilafah back
Unfortunately, they are simply following the example of Muhammad, who had assassinated poets who made satirical poems about him.

can you please leave that for another thread, we can discuss it if you wish, lets go to 'Apostates of Islam' by england my lionheart, ok. just let me know what you wish to speak about.
 

Kodanshi

StygnosticA
I can do, but it is DIRECTLY RELEVANT to your point about satire against Muhammad (the Danish cartoons, etc).
 

ProudMuslim

Active Member
Sorry, but I would disagree. You have the right to be offended, but they the Danish cartoonists to choose their subject matters.

It is absolutely disgusting and abhoring to defend the malicious cartoons in the name of "freedom of expression" when they totally incited racial hatred and defamation to a profound historical character. What was the point of doing such cartoons? nothing but vilifying Islam through its founder.

It is ironic how you were angry and mad when the Australian imam called exposed women "uncovered meat" ignoring the "freedom of expression" right but it is different somehow with the Danish cartoonists!!

Personally i found both equally despicable but none deserve death.

Unfortunately, they are simply following the example of Muhammad, who had assassinated poets who made satirical poems about him.

Which poets? And in which comic books did you read that? :)
 
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ProudMuslim

Active Member
Upset, yes. Anger, yes. Protests, yes.

Riots, no. Destruction of properties, no. Death threat, absolutely not. Murder, an empathetic :no:.

A Christian nun was murdered in Syria because of the cartoon. She had absolutely nothing to do with the cartoons, but she was murdered because she was a Christian. It is absolute lunacy to murder a woman, who was living on another continent and have no idea why she was being murdered.

People have the rights to be offended, but not to take the law into their own hands, and commit murder.

I would have added yes to economic boycott.

But i totally agree with this post.

Having said that, one must also those who acted violently were a fraction of the Muslim population. They dont represent the majority.
 

Kodanshi

StygnosticA
Which poets? And in which comic books did you read that? :)

Poets amongst others. Nice try with the humorous dismissal, by the way. Another logical fallacy, but I’ve come to expect that from muslims (and other religious folks desperate to preserve their illusions of their true vision of the real religion, which naturally no–one else seems to understand — only the special ones like you have privileged access to THE TRUTH).

Assassinations Ordered By Mohammed
 

gnostic

The Lost One
proud muslim said:
It is absolutely disgusting and abhoring to defend the malicious cartoons in the name of "freedom of expression" when they totally incited racial hatred and defamation to a profound historical character. What was the point of doing such cartoons? nothing but vilifying Islam through its founder.

The nature of the cartoons or caricatures are often satires, especially of famous figures or personalities - public figures.

Satires often mixed anger with humour, irony, parody, etc.

Look up satire and the history of satires, and you will find that famous or powerful people often deserved satire, because they are the ones who often abused their powers, or illustrate their flaws or shortcomings.

Satire, usually comes in several forms, the most common being -

  • In literature, like the plays of Aristophanes, who often satirise fellow Athenian citizens, particularly politicians.
  • In graphic illustrations, like cartoons and caricatures,
Sorry, Proud Muslim, that you are offended with me pointing out that satires have their uses, and I am afraid that even Muslims are not immune in creating satires for their own agenda. And some Muslims not only use satire against non-Muslims (which they do), but among themselves.

Satire is not a crime, whether it be plays or cartoons. I may laugh or cry, agree or disagree with, like or dislike, be upset or offended by the satire, but one thing I don't agree with censoring satires. It is certainly not worth killing the cartoonists.

As Kodanshi already pointed out to you, Muhammad did order assassinations about anything writing anything negative criticism about him or his newly found religion. One of them was like a Jewish poet, Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf, from the Banu Nadir tribe.

Who is worse, a poet or the person who ordered assassination of that poet?

Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf wasn't violent, but apparently Muhammad is and have used violence to silence others.

Do you resort to sword because of someone use a pen (or quill, or whatever they used for writing back then) to criticise or satirise?

proud muslim said:
It is ironic how you were angry and mad when the Australian imam called exposed women "uncovered meat" ignoring the "freedom of expression" right but it is different somehow with the Danish cartoonists!!

There's a big difference.

For one, Muhammad is dead. He could not possibly feel insulted.

For another, the Danish cartoonists and the editor are not the violent people. Those Muslims who wished them dead, are the violent ones. Do you not understand that?

For another, your silly-******* of Islamic imam is saying it is okay for raping women, simply because of the way they are dressed. Violence shouldn't never be excused on any circumstance. He deserved the backlash of his stupid misorgynistic sermon about women. Even Australian Muslim women were offended by his sermon.

Do you not get that yet?

Haven't enough women being subjected to rapes or physically abuses for centuries?

And the worse thing, is that Islamic law and courts frequently punished the victims, instead of the rapists.

:sorry: but what you have said would offend most women that you would even defend the imam.

Australian government and legal systems are trying to quash all forms of violence against women, whether it be domestic or not, and regardless of race, culture or religion.

The Australian Muslim clerics, are by large, trying to follow such examples, but there other some who clearly don't want Australian law to protect women from rape or domestic violence.

You should be Australian government for making this efforts instead of criticising.

Domestic violence are happening in Muslim families or couples, just as much as non-Muslim families or couples.

I am not a woman, but I respect women, no matter what race, culture or religion, enough to want serious change on how men treat women.

You Qur'an don't do enough about domestic violence, because you have a verse, where it is okay for a husband to beat or scourge an disobedient wife. So please don't tell me Muslim families are perfect.
 

Gharib

I want Khilafah back
Poets amongst others. Nice try with the humorous dismissal, by the way. Another logical fallacy, but I’ve come to expect that from muslims (and other religious folks desperate to preserve their illusions of their true vision of the real religion, which naturally no–one else seems to understand — only the special ones like you have privileged access to THE TRUTH).

Assassinations Ordered By Mohammed

what about assassinations that were planed to kill Muhammed (saws), where'd they go?
 

Gharib

I want Khilafah back
The nature of the cartoons or caricatures are often satires, especially of famous figures or personalities - public figures.

Satires often mixed anger with humour, irony, parody, etc.

Look up satire and the history of satires, and you will find that famous or powerful people often deserved satire, because they are the ones who often abused their powers, or illustrate their flaws or shortcomings.

Satire, usually comes in several forms, the most common being -

  • In literature, like the plays of Aristophanes, who often satirise fellow Athenian citizens, particularly politicians.
  • In graphic illustrations, like cartoons and caricatures,
Sorry, Proud Muslim, that you are offended with me pointing out that satires have their uses, and I am afraid that even Muslims are not immune in creating satires for their own agenda. And some Muslims not only use satire against non-Muslims (which they do), but among themselves.


Satire is not a crime, whether it be plays or cartoons. I may laugh or cry, agree or disagree with, like or dislike, be upset or offended by the satire, but one thing I don't agree with censoring satires. It is certainly not worth killing the cartoonists.

As Kodanshi already pointed out to you, Muhammad did order assassinations about anything writing anything negative criticism about him or his newly found religion. One of them was like a Jewish poet, Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf, from the Banu Nadir tribe.

Who is worse, a poet or the person who ordered assassination of that poet?

Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf wasn't violent, but apparently Muhammad is and have used violence to silence others.

Do you resort to sword because of someone use a pen (or quill, or whatever they used for writing back then) to criticise or satirise?

gnostic, that idiot made those cartoons to provoke us muslims, there was no humour or what ever in them, if there was then why didn't his country or government protect him, they kicked him out like the dog that he is. he went hidding, why do that if he did nothing wrong?

There's a big difference.

For one, Muhammad is dead. He could not possibly feel insulted.

news update; we are his followers, even if he was alive and didn't get insulted we would, get it.

For another, the Danish cartoonists and the editor are not the violent people. Those Muslims who wished them dead, are the violent ones. Do you not understand that?

are you saying that i'm violent? i wished for their death.

For another, your silly-******* of Islamic imam is saying it is okay for raping women, simply because of the way they are dressed. Violence shouldn't never be excused on any circumstance. He deserved the backlash of his stupid misorgynistic sermon about women. Even Australian Muslim women were offended by his sermon.

no they weren't.

Do you not get that yet?

nope, cos it's not true.

Haven't enough women being subjected to rapes or physically abuses for centuries?

do you have a plan to do something about it?

And the worse thing, is that Islamic law and courts frequently punished the victims, instead of the rapists.

can i have one example?

:sorry: but what you have said would offend most women that you would even defend the imam.

i defend him, and no one is offended. what about that other imam, the one from melbourne, who said it is the non muslims fault that there is no rain, they don't worship god.

Australian government and legal systems are trying to quash all forms of violence against women, whether it be domestic or not, and regardless of race, culture or religion.

never heard that before.

The Australian Muslim clerics, are by large, trying to follow such examples, but there other some who clearly don't want Australian law to protect women from rape or domestic violence.

the australian "law" is just a saying to us man. it is worthless, or useless. (the one about women or what ever) we have our own laws.

You should be Australian government for making this efforts instead of criticising.

Domestic violence are happening in Muslim families or couples, just as much as non-Muslim families or couples.

where abouts have you heard this?

I am not a woman, but I respect women, no matter what race, culture or religion, enough to want serious change on how men treat women.

i agree with you 100%

You Qur'an don't do enough about domestic violence, because you have a verse, where it is okay for a husband to beat or scourge an disobedient wife. So please don't tell me Muslim families are perfect.

good thing you know of the verse, but do you know to what extent the beating can go? how much is a man soposed to harm his wife?

i too can say that non muslim men harm women, but that harming might actually be a slap on the rists. so it would be wrong to turn a peice of string into a rope.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
eselam said:
where abouts have you heard this?

Domestic violence happens everywhere - in both Muslim and non-Muslim world.

If you don't think it happened, then you're not living in a real world and terribly naive.

If a husband beat or scourge his wife, for whatever reason, be it disobedient, as it say in the Qur'an as the rights of the husband, then that's domestic violence. To me, that verse allow encourage domestic violence.

eselam said:
i too can say that non muslim men harm women, but that harming might actually be a slap on the rists. so it would be wrong to turn a peice of string into a rope.

I am not naive. I know domestic violence can happen and is happening in a non-Muslim home, somewhere in this world, including in Australia. That's why Australian government, both federally and state, are trying fix the problem.

The thing is that the beating or scourging a disobedient wife is enshrined in the Qur'an, and it is the only religious scripture that I know say a Muslim husband can beat his wife. Sure, it is only used as a last resort, but it's still encouraging domestic violence. To me, that verse is morally wrong, and archaic, let alone misogynistic.

In this day and age, if the women are disobedient, then considered divorce instead of violence.

And considering that I am not religious, nor follow any scripture, I find that it is criminally and morally wrong to beat a woman, whether that woman is a wife, friend, associate or stranger.

I have no scripture and I needs no scripture to know it is wrong. I don't even need a law to tell me right from wrong, especially in regarding to domestic violence or any violence towards women. I am guided by my own values and conscience.
 
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Bowman

Active Member
Is the name "Muhammad" or any of the variation of spelling his name, considered holy?


The term 'Muhammad' was never a personal name at the time the Koran was first written.

In fact, the term 'Muhammad' predates the Koran as written inside the Dome of the Rock, in which, it refers to the Biblical Jesus Christ, as 'Praised One'.
 
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