Is the Name / Word Lucifer ever mentioned in the Quran or Judaic texts?

[EtuMalku]

Have you looked into Albert Pike at all? He has an interesting book called Morals and Dogma.

Of course

 

[EtuMalku]

sidhartha gautama never wrote down any of his teachings, plato never wrote down any of his, pythagoras never wrote down any of his teachings, jesus never wrote down any of his. their followers did. i'm not trying to apotheosize anyone.

my only offering is that love transcends space, time, cultures, gender, sex, ethnicity, et al


kind of like ancient jewish people tried to apotheosize melchizedek. the OT and the NT doesn't condone idolatry, or a cult of personality, to anyone.


http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10602-melchizedek


best wishes

Better get your history correct, we have entire books written by Plato (are you thinking of Socrates?), as well as a plethora of writing by Pythagoras as well as his disciples.

 

[Fool]

Balance in still within the box of aversity. You want to transcend that box by going for harmony, not balance, imo.

silence is balance. it is the 8th and everything came from no thing. bindu

 

[EtuMalku]

nope, empathy has been observed in other species too.


love is necessary for cooperation because two bodies sharing one mind are greater than the sum of their individual selves. two, or more, working together can accomplish so much more than individuals working by themselves and solely for selfish reasons. i'm not speaking of sacrifice. i'm speaking of being merciful

http://www.livescience.com/24800-animals-emotions-morality.html

http://news.discovery.com/animals/elephants-added-to-list-of-animals-that-show-empathy-140218.htm

And that is 'empathy' not 'love' or 'agape' . . .

 

[Fool]

yes socrates. thank you.

and no pythagoras didn't write anything himself.

http://home.wlu.edu/~mahonj/Ancient_Philosophers/Pythagoras.htm

It is believed that he did not write a book.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pythagoras/

The evidence suggests that Pythagoras did not write any books. No source contemporaneous with Pythagoras or in the first two hundred years after his death, including Plato, Aristotle and their immediate successors in the Academy and Lyceum, quotes from a work by Pythagoras or gives any indication that any works written by him were in existence.

 

[EtuMalku]

silence is balance. it is the 8th and everything came from no thing. bindu

e.g. Music is Harmony not a balance, it is composed of sound and silence organized in time

 

[ThirtyThree]

Of course

Brilliant book.

I currently wish I could find a single name or title which fits my deity. I constantly find sets of three. It is frustrating.

You sound like you are trying to find other examples of the light bringer archetype?

 

[EtuMalku]

The evidence suggests that Pythagoras did not write any books. No source contemporaneous with Pythagoras or in the first two hundred years after his death, including Plato, Aristotle and their immediate successors in the Academy and Lyceum, quotes from a work by Pythagoras or gives any indication that any works written by him were in existence.

True, his works were written down posthumous, but there are records he lived when he did.

 

[Fool]

And that is 'empathy' not 'love' or 'agape' . . .

compassion is considered to be loving, not antagonistic

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/empathy?s=t

https://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/empathy

http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=love&allowed_in_frame=0

hatred, animosity is not capable of understanding another.

empathy is established through direct experience to another's state of mind.

http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/do_mirror_neurons_give_empathy

 

[EtuMalku]

Brilliant book.

I currently wish I could find a single name or title which fits my deity. I constantly find sets of three. It is frustrating.

You sound like you are trying to find other examples of the light bringer archetype?

Keep looking, keep focused . . . your Dæmon will reveal itself to you eventually!
I'm not really looking for examples of Lucifer, I've done all that homework a decade ago.

 

[EtuMalku]

compassion is considered to be loving, not antagonistic

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/empathy?s=t

https://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/empathy

http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=love&allowed_in_frame=0

hatred, animosity is not capable of understanding another.

empathy is established through direct experience to another's state of mind.

http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/do_mirror_neurons_give_empathy

Ouch . . . now its 'compassion'

 

[Fool]

True, his works were written down posthumous, but there are records he lived when he did.

as listed, with the exception of the correction on socrates, none of the teachers wrote anything themselves. i agree some were written posthumous by disciples. that is no contest; otherwise we wouldn't have known of anything regarding them.

pythagoras was known to be a member of the essenes at some point in his life.

 

[Fool]

Ouch . . . now its 'compassion'

yep, compassion and empathy are synonyms.

you practice epeolatry at the expense of ideas?

an oriental philosopher once said, "once an idea is understood, words are no longer necessary.". Like the concept of lucifer would not be symbolized the same in one language, or culture, vs another.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The Tanakh was completed in 450 BC ...

I love it when people just make things up.

 

[EtuMalku]

yep, compassion and empathy are synonyms.

you practice epeolatry at the expense of ideas?

an oriental philosopher once said, "once an idea is understood, words are no longer necessary.". Like the concept of lucifer would not be symbolized the same in one language, or culture, vs another.

I'm a firm believer in the Platonic First Forms, they are the primordial ideals that become perpetual archetypes
Lucifer is a Roman deity, but that deity was nothing more than a personification of the Babylonian Morning Star mythologies

 

[crossfire]

as listed, with the exception of the correction on socrates, none of the teachers wrote anything themselves. i agree some were written posthumous by disciples. that is no contest; otherwise we wouldn't have known of anything regarding them.

pythagoras was known to be a member of the essenes at some point in his life.

Pythagoras lived around 400 years before the Essenes.

 

[EtuMalku]

I love it when people just make things up.

According to the Talmud much of the contents of the Tanakh was compiled by the men of the Great Assembly (Anshei K'nesset HaGedolah), a task completed in 450 BCE, and has remained unchanged since that date.
(Bava Batra 14b-15a, Rashi to Megillah 3a, 14a)

You got another reference?

 

[Fool]

Pythagoras lived around 400 years before the Essenes.

not a problem. the essenes were nothing other than the group associated with mt. carmel and a esoteric group probably founded by moses.

case in point, elijah and elisha.,



http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/5867-essenes

they were associated with the mountain of the prophets, or seers; which was mt. carmel.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You got another reference?

Sure ...

Most scholars now date the writing of the Book of Esther to the late Persian or early Greek period, roughly between 400-200 B.C.E. (An older view saw it as the product of Hellenistic or Maccabean times.) To put the dating in a broader context, here are the dates generally given for some other biblical and apocryphal books.

• Ruth and Jonah: Persian period.
• Isaiah 40-66: 550-500 B.C.E.
• Haggai,Zechariah, Malachi: 500-300 B.C.E.
• Ezra-Nehemiah: 400-300 B.C.E.
• Chronicles: 400-300 B.C.E.
• Ecclesiastes: dated by most scholars to about 250 B.C.E., but C. L. Seow has recently proposed an earlier date, 450-350 B.C.E.
• Tobit: 225-175 B.C.E.
  Daniel as a whole is dated in the Maccabean period (ca. 164 B.C.E.), but Chapters 1-6 may go back to the fourth or third centuries B.C.E.
  Judith: about 100 B.C.E.

For the reasons discussed below , I would place the writing of Esther earlier in the accepted period rather than later, about 400-300 B.C.E., after the reign of Xerxes and before the Hellenization of the East in the wake of Alexander.

- Adele Berlin; JPS Bible Commentary: Esther

 

[EtuMalku]

Sure ...

​

What part of 450 BC didn't you understand then?
Does any of this have any bearing on the discussion?