is the quran from God ?

[syberpriend]

There are many, but here is a funny one

Ants Cannot Talk:

At length, when they came to a valley of ants, one of the ants said: "O ye ants, get into your habitations, lest Solomon and his hosts crush you (under foot) without knowing it."

​

So he smiled, amused at her speech; and he said: "O my Lord! so order me that I may be grateful for Thy favours, which Thou has bestowed on me and on my parents, and that I may work the righteousness that will please Thee: And admit me, by They Grace to the ranks of Thy Righteous Servants."
​

-- Sura An-Naml [The Ant] (27):18-19 ​

If uve known, solomon was given the power to understand language of animals, birds, insects etc. its in Bible, Torah as well, and ANTS do talk, human ear can receive only certain amount of freq whch they can hear, less or more humans can;t hear, its a scientific fact, dont u know this?

 

[Caladan]

Any proof u can provide for not calling it as revealed book, or un ethical towards human mind? or y not compatible with todays world?

It seems that it boils down to me and you having different standards and background. the Qur'an does not meet my standards of what I would expect a Divine book to be like, however, it does meet my standards of being written by Arab men in the 7th century.
as for proofs, its not my burden to provide, I am not making any fantastic claim of a book being sent by an angel, anyone who claims this extraordinary claim is the one who has the burden of proof. and another thing I've noticed is that the so called 'proofs' of the Qur'an's divinity only meet the standards of Muslims whom by default see the Qur'an as revealed from above. to non religious (and many religious) this is called 'blind faith'.
1. the book itself, to me, does not show a content of anything 'divine'.
2. the 'proofs' for the Qur'an being a divine book do not meet my standards of what a proof is.
3. at the end of the day its irrelevant to me. believing the Qur'an is divine as far as I'm concerned, is like believing that Beowulf has slain a dragon in the old Anglo-Saxon epic. books are written by men, not gods.

 

[Breathe]

and ANTS do talk, human ear can receive only certain amount of freq whch they can hear, less or more humans can;t hear, its a scientific fact, dont u know this?

The scientific fact is that ants communicate via pheromones. Ants don't talk, I'm afraid to point out.

Unless Solomon's nose was very sensitive, I doubt this very much.

Edit: Unless you're talking of stridulation. Which not all ants do. And still, it's not quite talking.

 

[syberpriend]

It seems that it boils down to me and you having different standards and background. the Qur'an does not meet my standards of what I would expect a Divine book to be like, however, it does meet my standards of being written by Arab men in the 7th century.
Ahan, so how much arabic u know of 7th century that u made ur funny conclusion?
as for proofs, its not my burden to provide, I am not making any fantastic claim of a book being sent by an angel, anyone who claims this extraordinary claim is the one who has the burden of proof. and another thing I've noticed is that the so called 'proofs' of the Qur'an's divinity only meet the standards of Muslims whom by default see the Qur'an as revealed from above. to non religious (and many religious) this is called 'blind faith'.
1. the book itself, to me, does not show a content of anything 'divine'.
2. the 'proofs' for the Qur'an being a divine book do not meet my standards of what a proof is.
3. at the end of the day its irrelevant to me. believing the Qur'an is divine as far as I'm concerned, is like believing that Beowulf has slain a dragon in the old Anglo-Saxon epic. books are written by men, not gods.

nothing specific u said about wat was askedd from u, no1 is interested in ur standard here, ur standard is of grade 2, so its not our problem, when u grow ig enough, thn join this forum, u will know the answers.

 

[syberpriend]

The scientific fact is that ants communicate via pheromones. Ants don't talk, I'm afraid to point out.

Unless Solomon's nose was very sensitive, I doubt this very much.

so bees and flies also comunicate in same way?
however he knows, solomon was givin power over winds, read torah, bible as well rather thn checking Quran only.

 

[Caladan]

nothing specific u said about wat was askedd from u, no1 is interested in ur standard here, ur standard is of grade 2, so its not our problem, when u grow ig enough, thn join this forum, u will know the answers.

In other words you are only interested in single dimension people who agree with you. you must come from a very oppressive background or society.

 

[Breathe]

so bees and flies also comunicate in same way?

Bees communicate via 'dancing', pheremones, odor plume and trophaxallis, not via talking.

Flies, I don't know. I would not think they communicate a lot, since they don't live in colonies or anything. Termites however, would communicate more, but they would be similar to ants I guess.

Also, even if ants could talk, Solomon would need incredibly good hearing as it would not simply be a case of frequencies to hear, but also it would be a case of decibels. An ant would either have to talk incredibly loud, or Solomon would have to hear incredibly well in order to hear an ant talking. A whisper is usually around 10~20dB, and you cannot hear ants chattering ordinarily, so ants would more than likely be between 0dB and 2dB (0dB = silence). An ant would need to make a sound between 10~20dB for Solomon to hear via strenuous listening. The average conversation is about 60dB.

however he knows, solomon was givin power over winds, read torah, bible as well rather thn checking Quran only.

The Torah and Bible are also texts that I do not believe are from God.

 

[skydivephil]

If god existed and wanted a message sent to humanity, he could have done it any number of miraculous ways. He could have written it in the sky, he could have carved it onto the moon. In stead its in oral tradition and ancient scrolls. The exact method we would expect if it had come from man, not god. Coincidence?

 

[syberpriend]

In other words you are only interested in single dimension people who agree with you. you must come from a very oppressive background or society.

everything is well explained, in every dimension, even if its not getting inside u, its ur problem, not of any1.
try to be on topic, dont go sideways, its not good

 

[syberpriend]

Bees communicate via 'dancing', pheremones, odor plume and trophaxallis, not via talking.

Flies, I don't know. I would not think they communicate a lot, since they don't live in colonies or anything. Termites however, would communicate more, but they would be similar to ants I guess.

Also, even if ants could talk, Solomon would need incredibly good hearing as it would not simply be a case of frequencies to hear, but also it would be a case of decibels. An ant would either have to talk incredibly loud, or Solomon would have to hear incredibly well in order to hear an ant talking. A whisper is usually around 10~20dB, and you cannot hear ants chattering ordinarily, so ants would more than likely be between 0dB and 2dB (0dB = silence). An ant would need to make a sound between 10~20dB for Solomon to hear via strenuous listening. The average conversation is about 60dB.


The Torah and Bible are also texts that I do not believe are from God.

The question is not what u believe or not Odion the question is, its proven and writen in history, u can;t deny

 

[syberpriend]

If god existed and wanted a message sent to humanity, he could have done it any number of miraculous ways. He could have written it in the sky, he could have carved it onto the moon. In stead its in oral tradition and ancient scrolls. The exact method we would expect if it had come from man, not god. Coincidence?

Good question, if God himself sent down the scripture, through the ways u mention, thn ofcourse it will be totaly must for ppl to follow, thn wats the use of human creation? of their free will to choose right or wrong? God thn dont needd text, God can make everything proper and work in perfect way as well, right?

 

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

Many accounts have been made to justify the Quran as a miracle with regards to its literacy...

but all failed until suddenly the third class presenter Adam Deen came along to enlighten us all?

Come on. Read some classical arabic scholars at least. They might also be wrong but at least they do not openly admit it through every sentence they utter.

I wonder why nowadays every fool thinks of himself to be the next messenger to clarify the teaching and teach all atheistic fools thise things that thousands of others couldnt.

 

[Breathe]

The question is not what u believe or not Odion

But you asked me to read through the text, and I don't see a point, because I don't see them as divine.

the question is, its proven and writen in history, u can;t deny

I can, because there is no proof for them.

 

[Fatihah]

If god existed and wanted a message sent to humanity, he could have done it any number of miraculous ways. He could have written it in the sky, he could have carved it onto the moon. In stead its in oral tradition and ancient scrolls. The exact method we would expect if it had come from man, not god. Coincidence?

Response: No. For your claim is exactly that, "your claim". However, it does not represent the expectation of all of mankind concerning divine revelation. Therefore, it's only a coincidence perhaps in your eyes and perhaps those who think like you. Either way, that still is not proof.

 

[skydivephil]

The problem is free will is not consistent with religion.
If god knows the future perfectly then the set of future events is fixed , then we cant have free will. You cant have it both ways.
Furthermore the Qu'ran says its god who makes people not believe in Sura 2, 7 on universalunity
[2:7] GOD seals their minds and their hearing, and their eyes are veiled. They have incurred severe retribution
or the looklex.com
Sura 2: 7 God has set a seal upon their hearts and on their hearing; and on their eyes is dimness, and for them is grievous woe."

 

[Fatihah]

The problem is free will is not consistent with religion.
If god knows the future perfectly then the set of future events is fixed , then we cant have free will. You cant have it both ways.
Furthermore the Qu'ran says its god who makes people not believe in Sura 2, 7 on universalunity
[2:7] GOD seals their minds and their hearing, and their eyes are veiled. They have incurred severe retribution
or the looklex.com
Sura 2: 7 God has set a seal upon their hearts and on their hearing; and on their eyes is dimness, and for them is grievous woe."

Response: Knowing the future has nothing to do with going against free will. For once someone chooses something freely, it is very possible for Allah to have known the choice before the individual being that we are his creation. If I, hypothetically speaking, created you to naturally react to things, then it is very possible for me to know your future after you've used your free will to choose. For example, if you are scared of mice, you can, out of your own free will, react a certain way. I can however, know your exact reaction when seeing a mouse, for I've created your mind and knows how it would react. So my knowing the future does not contradict free will.

As for the verse, it refers to those who will reject islam, no matter the warning, as the verse before clearly states. Therefore, Allah seals them from his divine guidance.

 

[syberpriend]

but all failed until suddenly the third class presenter Adam Deen came along to enlighten us all?
may i know which claim or miracle is failed?
Come on. Read some classical arabic scholars at least. They might also be wrong but at least they do not openly admit it through every sentence they utter.
arabic scholars agreed already, that its beyond their imagination and not from human. to tell u,
Under the orders of Pope Urban VIII, the Archbishop of Syria called a meeting of priests, cardinals and scholars and masters of the Hebrew, Greek and the Arabic languages for the purpose of revising and correcting the Arabic translation of the Bible that was full of errors and missing many important passages. The members of this council took great pains in rectifying the errors of this translation. After great labour and all possible efforts, they prepared a version in 1625. In spite of all their effort, this translation still contained many errors and defects.
The revising members of this council wrote an apologetic introduction to it. The reproduce below is their apology in their exact words:
You will find many things in this copy deviating from the general rules of grammar. For example, masculine gender in place of feminine, singular replaced by plural and plural in place of a dual. Similarly there are unusual applications of the signs of accentuation, emphasis and phonetics. Sometimes additional words have been used in place of a phonetic mark. The main reason of our being ungrammatical is the simplicity of the language of the Christians. The Christians have formulated a special language. The prophets, the apostles, and their elders took liberties with languages such as Latin, Greek and Hebrew, because it was never the will of the Holy Ghost to confine the words of God within the narrow boundaries of normal grammatical complexities. The Holy Ghost, therefore, revealed the secrets of God without effusion and eloquence.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1757213#_ftnref1


I wonder why nowadays every fool thinks of himself to be the next messenger to clarify the teaching and teach all atheistic fools thise things that thousands of others couldnt.

Now if u know arabic, and very perfect in it, can u show me anything wrong in the text or grammar, or wrong in its eloquence?

 

[syberpriend]

But you asked me to read through the text, and I don't see a point, because I don't see them as divine.


I can, because there is no proof for them.

Its funny u dont know about them, maybe lack of ur knowledge
Find out y Israel attack Palestine, and wats their claim for the holy land in Palestine..
If something is missing from ur scripture, (if u have 1), or lost, or changed, that does;nt mean, whole history is wrong

 

[Breathe]

Its funny u dont know about them,

Them what?

maybe lack of ur knowledge

In what?

Find out y Israel attack Palestine, and wats their claim for the holy land in Palestine..

What does this have to do with anything?

If something is missing from ur scripture, (if u have 1), or lost, or changed, that does;nt mean, whole history is wrong

I never said it did.
However, when something is supposed to be from God, and we have crucial faults like ants talking in there, we can safely say "This isn't from God".

 

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

arabic scholars agreed already, that its beyond their imagination and not from human. to tell u,
...

You missed my point!
My point is that Adam Deen is not really one who knows much about what he talks about. Islamic scholars of old age were far better in their rethoric.

Now if u know arabic, and very perfect in it, can u show me anything wrong in the text or grammar, or wrong in its eloquence?

We had that discussion already. You again miss the point. It is not ME who started a thread making claims about supposed characteristics of the Quran. I do not have any burden of proof.
Apart of that: I do know arabic and i am very good in it
Actually nobody can be "very perfect". Either one is perfect or he is not.

If I were you I would take the time to ask myself how it can be that supposed obvious proofs by your new age local hero Adam Deen didnt make it into the intellectual olymp yet but rather prosper with guys like you....