• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

is the storm god set and the thunder god of israel the same deity?

heavenshot2

New Member
I was reading about the god of abraham who is described as being the god of the mountains of thunder and war in the old testament , I found remarkable similarities to the Egyptian god set. both are war gods of storm and wind. Can anyone add to this?
 

Werden

Member
I am not a scholar on the subject, and am still learning quite a lot (and sure I will always continue to!), however from my understanding the archeological evidence alone would put Set as existing long before the time attributed to Abraham of the Abrahamic religions.

Are you referring to the El Shaddai name as discussed here : From the Rabbi: Parshat Vayera Exodus 6:2 - 9:35 ? I think more would have to be none than war, mountains, and thunder to make a decent guess. Otherwise it may have been Thor making a trip to the South, or even Zeus for that matter due to Mt. Olympus ;)

- Werden -
 

Troublemane

Well-Known Member
The greek god IAO, is the origin of both Jove and Jehova (IOVIS), who was god of the heavens and thunder, etc. In an agricultural society, it was good fortune to have rain, so the main god is the god who gives rain. Even if you have to offer him blood sacrifice.

There is evidence that the original name for the hebrew god was Sin, however, as Mt Sinai is the mountain of Sin, the akkhadian god of the moon. The name of god changes throughout the bible, depending on who was editing it. The earlier polytheistic "Elohist" or the later monotheistic "Iehovist". :angel2:
 

Werden

Member
For reference I would recommend Budge's work or Seth, God of Confusion: A Study of His Role in Egyptian Mythology and Religion by H. te Velde, though the latter I am still in the process of tracking down myself.

Xeper!
- Werden -
 

L.Keane

Master Cosmonaut~EoB
Seth, God of Confusion: A Study of His Role in Egyptian Mythology and Religion by H. te Velde, though the latter I am still in the process of tracking down myself.

Xeper!
- Werden -

Dear Werden,

First let me say I am enjoying your posts. Keep up the good work!
Second, if you have access to a university library just request the book through inter library loans (ILL) they should be able to track a copy down for you at no cost. I'm not sure if a public library can do the same thing.

Xeper!

LK
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
I was reading about the god of abraham who is described as being the god of the mountains of thunder and war in the old testament , I found remarkable similarities to the Egyptian god set. both are war gods of storm and wind. Can anyone add to this?
Shulmu heavens.hot,
Yes, being that the Judaic religion in my eyes (and many scholars also) reinvented the Egyptian religion minus what didn't work for them, it is not surprising that they create a god based on an Egyptian God.

The greek god IAO as mentioned (the Greeks are equally known for reinterpreting Egyptian religion)is pronounced 'ee aye oh' and is only some of the sacred sounds from Egypt. The Egyptian language for the most part contained only consonants (Kmt was pronounced Keh Met) the vowels themselves were considered sacred and used by priests for ritual and ceremony.

X&R
EM
 
Last edited:

Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
I was reading about the god of abraham who is described as being the god of the mountains of thunder and war in the old testament , I found remarkable similarities to the Egyptian god set. both are war gods of storm and wind. Can anyone add to this?

Actually the Hebrew Ba'al and Egyptian Set are very closely related. The Setian King Ramases the Great built a Temple to Ba'al when he moved the capital of Egypt to the Setian city of Tanis as he associated Ba'al with his patron god Set. Both Set and Ba'al are gods of Storms, Winds, and of War, or more accurately gods of disruption of the Cosmic Order.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\
 

te_lanus

Alien Hybrid
Actually the Hebrew Ba'al and Egyptian Set are very closely related. The Setian King Ramases the Great built a Temple to Ba'al when he moved the capital of Egypt to the Setian city of Tanis as he associated Ba'al with his patron god Set. Both Set and Ba'al are gods of Storms, Winds, and of War, or more accurately gods of disruption of the Cosmic Order.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\
I'm with Adramelek.

I've studied both the Egyptian and the old Canaanite religion. They share a lot in common. A lot of absorption happened between the religions, as they were so close together.
 

Darth Brooks

Gunslinger For Set
I was actually quite amazed to discover, during the course of my own research, that IHVH has been identified with Set quite a bit. The Jews who lived in Egypt were considered disruptive due to their monotheism and their Shabbat (Sabbath) celebrations. The idea of having a "day of rest" every week was unheard of. Only royalty and nobility were normally allowed to enjoy such leisure; but here was a bunch of "little people" demanding to have a "weekly holiday" each week! And Hebrew monotheism was considered insulting to the Egyptian Gods. Normally in those days, if you went to live in a foreign land, you payed your dues to the Gods of that foreign land, so as to show respect for them on their turf. The refusal of the Hebrew leadership to do this was revolutionary at the time; it was even considered seditious. Hebrew monotheism and Shabbat observation were perceived as threats by the Egyptians, because they were thought to anger the Gods. And there was only one God they could think of who would side with "the little people," who would incite them to be "lazy" on a day ruled by a "malefic" planet (i.e., Saturday), and who would want them to be disrespectful toward the other Gods: i.e., Set. Egyptian disfavor toward the Hebrews was probably helped by the Hyksos invasions that occured during the 1600's BCE, since the Hyksos were Semitic, and Egyptian xenophobia is known to have intensified significantly after that event.

Later, writers like Plutarch and Manetho report stories in which Jews were outright accused of worshiping a donkey during horrific nocturnal rites, which were even reported to include cannibalism. The donkey, of course, was one of Set's sacred animals. In his Gods of the Egyptians, E. A. Wallis Budge quotes Plutarch's report of a story in which, after He was "cast out" from Egypt, Set-Typhon rode for seven days on the back of a donkey through a desert. When He found a place of safety, He "gave birth" to two sons named Judaeus and Hierosolymus - Judaeus being a Greek corruption of "Judea" and Hierosolymus being a similar corruption of "Jerusalem." It would appear that both Late Period Egyptians and Greeks both shared a common subversion ideology in which Jews were accused of secretly being criminally deviant Set worshipers, not unlike the "blood libel" myths that would later surface in such events as the Roman persecution of Christians, the European witch hysterias, and the 1980's "satanic ritual abuse" panic.

Another curiosity I find very interesting is when Don Webb reports in his Seven Faces of Darkness that certain names for the Jewish God were later adopted by first century Typhonians as names for Set. There are numerous spells in the Greco-Egyptian magical papyri in which Set-Typhon is identified as "IO" - which is both a Hellenization of "aai," the Egyptian for "donkey," and of "Iah," as in Yahweh - and "SABAOTH," which means "Lord of Hosts" in Hebrew. He even points out that the use of the name "IO-SETH," a combination of IO with the Greek equivalent of "Set," was specifically intended to resemble the Hebrew name "Joseph." Indeed, the tendency to adopt elements of Judaic mysticism into Set's cult seems to have been a common theme. We even see it in the twentieth century with Kenneth Grant, who identified his notion of "the Tunnels of Set" with the Tree of Qlippoth. We also see it with the Temple of Set, whose original founders were previously affiliated with LaVey's Church of Satan, in which rituals included recitation of the word "Shemhamforash" - the so-called "seventy-two-part Divided name of YHWH."

There is also the raging controversy among scholars of Gnosticism over the confusion of the Gnostic Seth (the third son of Adam and Eve, whose name is actually spelled "Sheth" in Hebrew) with the Greco-Egyptian Set-Typhon. For the most part there appears to be no major evidence for such a connection, but there does appear to be quite a bit of resemblance between Sethian Gnosticism and Typhonianism, especially in terms of their ascension rites. In any case, I am convinced that there IS a connection between Set and IHVH; in my own ritual experiences I've come to think of Set as the pagan "Truth" behind IHVH. It is helpful to remember that during biblical times, most of the Hebrews were actually polytheists, who were perfectly willing to worship other deities beside IHVH (such as the Goddess Asherah). Strict Hebrew monotheism was represented for the most part by the Hebrew priests, who were a minority. Much of the Old Testament consists of complaints made by this minority against the Hebrew majority and their "adultery" with other Gods. As for the identification of Set with Baal, this is a proven fact. The Hyksos themselves are probably the best reference for this, and Lewis Spence reports in his Ancient Egyptian Myths and Legends that certain Egyptian texts even went so far as to outright replace Set's name with "Baal" in some cases. The Typhonic name "BOLCHOSETH" is also evidence, since it means "Baal who strikes as Set."
 
Last edited:

enchanted_one1975

Resident Lycanthrope
Set is older and more powerful than the Abrahamic God. This is why the Abrahamic God fears Him (and many other older, more powerful Gods).
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Hebrew monotheism and Shabbat observation were perceived as threats by the Egyptians, because they were thought to anger the Gods.
In my studies I have concluded that the Hebrews Belief system is nothing more than a diluted version of the first Monotheistic Cult, that of the Aten of Akhenaten, which was dissolved the moment Akhenaten was no longer pharaoh.

The idea of having a "day of rest" every week was unheard of. Only royalty and nobility were normally allowed to enjoy such leisure; . . . And Hebrew monotheism was considered insulting to the Egyptian Gods.
The daily, weekly, monthly and Annual calendar of Pre-Dynastic Egypt was based off of the elliptical shape of the egg, as was their musical system.
The Egg shape contains two energy centers or foci, and can be seen by any planet's elliptical orbit with the Sun, in other words this was a natural ebb & flow that the Egyptians understood.

The Egyptian week started on a high note Saturday / Saturn / Sabt / Sabeth / Sabbath. The musical scale(Dorian)is the only symmetrical diatonic scale and was the scale of choice by Egyptians because of that symmetry as well as its ebb & flow.

There are numerous spells in the Greco-Egyptian magical papyri in which Set-Typhon is identified as "IO" - which is both a Hellenization of "aai," the Egyptian for "donkey," and of "Iah," as in Yahweh - and "SABAOTH," which means "Lord of Hosts" in Hebrew.
This IO from my understanding is part of the sacred vowels. The letters of the Tetragrammaton, iod-he-vau-he, are variously transliterated: JHVH, YHWH, IEVE. Ancient languages, particularly Egyptian, had no vowels, but were rather syllable based.

The Egyptian priesthood did use the vowels in sacred rituals and these vowels were thought to 'vibrate' the names of Gods, to heal and illuminate.

Of interest here is author Jean Robin's books on Rene' Guenon concerning IAO and "Seth, the unknown god"

- ' In a fairly late Gnostic complex, Seth, who had now become the god of magicians, was invoked under the name of IO, which is Egyptian for ***.
Seth was soon assimilated to the God of the Jews, who were reproached by the lower classes, and very naturally so, as allies of the Hyksos.'
 

Darth Brooks

Gunslinger For Set
In my studies I have concluded that the Hebrews Belief system is nothing more than a diluted version of the first Monotheistic Cult, that of the Aten of Akhenaten, which was dissolved the moment Akhenaten was no longer pharaoh.

I agree that Hebrew monotheism was a resurgence of the Amarna heresy (which I would hasten to describe as the first recorded monotheistic cult in history). But this does not account for all versions of Hebrew belief. As I pointed out earlier, many Hebrews during Old Testament times were actually polytheists, like everyone else in the ancient Middle and Near Eastern civilizations. Hence why the Old Testament seems preoccupied in certain books with polytheists within the Israelite population. I believe Hebrew polytheism is an entirely different strain of belief, which the ancient Setians would have found more compatible with their own beliefs. Hence why they would have found it easy to use different names for IHVH (as one of many Gods, as opposed to "the One True God") as names for Set.

The daily, weekly, monthly and Annual calendar of Pre-Dynastic Egypt was based off of the elliptical shape of the egg, as was their musical system.
The Egg shape contains two energy centers or foci, and can be seen by any planet's elliptical orbit with the Sun, in other words this was a natural ebb & flow that the Egyptians understood.

It also lacked the extra fourth of a day our solar calendar has, which causes the epagomenal days to go back one day every four years, or at least until the calendar was restarted.

The Egyptian week started on a high note Saturday / Saturn / Sabt / Sabeth / Sabbath.

The Sabbath is thought by some to be derived from the Babylonian culture, in which every seventh day of the lunar cycle was considered "unlucky" and an unsuitable day for certain activities. There is a reference to a Sabatu or Sapatu day, which was observed on the fifteenth day of the cycle (just past the halfway-point). But if an entire lunar cycle counts as a month in a lunar calendar, then this was really only observed once a month. Even if it had been observed on a weekly basis, it would have occurred on a different day each week by solar reckoning. Yet the Hebrews celebrated it at the exact same time each week when the sun set on Friday night (the beginning of the seventh day by their reckoning). So far as the records show, this was an innovation on their part. Their emphasis on the importance of the number seven in this context probably struck a negative chord among post-Hyksos Egyptians, since there are seven stars in the Big Dipper or Thigh of Set that are visible to the naked eye. The difference between Egyptian and Hebrew reckoning probably contributed to the hostile view of the Hebrews as a disruptive "Setian" influence.
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Good stuff Darth, thanks!

I have read that the correct system of Belief for the Egyptians as well as Mesopotamians was 'Pantheistic'? This would certainly fit in with the TOS concept of the natural ordering of the Universe and its metaphor of god/Neter/divinity etc.

At the end of a year there would be 5 days lefts over, these days were spent in honor of the Neter.

Abraham (avatar of the Abrahamic religions) was from Chaldea, so I would have to agree that there was a huge 'Meso' influence going on in the initial phase of Judaism, as well as Egyptian influences, yet probably seen as a disruption more by the Egyptian religion.
 

Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
Speaking of Ba'al. There is a story that after Christ was crusified and his body placed in the cave enclosed by a great boalder, that after rising from the dead Christ called out the name of Yahweh in an attempt to miraculously remove the boalder. After several attempts the boalder still remained. Finally, Christ called out the name of Ba'al which caused the boalder to move. I'm sure I do not accept this story as a truth, but it is a curiosity. (I personally am not convinced that Jesus Christ was even a real person.)

Regarding the word "Shemhamforash". I understand that it is supposedly to be entoned by the Judeo-Christian God to bring about the annihiliation of the Universe. Can anyone verify this?

/Adramelek\
 
Last edited:

Xafwak

XFWK
Speaking of Ba'al. There is a story that after Christ was crusified and his body placed in the cave enclosed by a great boalder, that after rising from the dead Christ called out the name of Yahweh in an attempt to miraculously remove the boalder. After several attempts the boalder still remained. Finally, Christ called out the name of Ba'al which caused the boalder to move. I'm sure I do not accept this story as a truth, but it is a curiosity. (I personally am not convinced that Jesus Christ was even a real person.)

Regarding the word "Shemhamforash". I understand that it is supposedly to be entoned by the Judeo-Christian God to bring about the annihiliation of the Universe. Can anyone verify this?

/Adramelek\

There are a lot of references to Jesus in external (ie not Jewish) sources, like the Romans. However I find it probable that a lot of what Jesus was claimed to have done is just myth from other sources and glued on his character. So Jesus yes, Christ no.
 

arimoff

Active Member
Speaking of Ba'al. There is a story that after Christ was crusified and his body placed in the cave enclosed by a great boalder, that after rising from the dead Christ called out the name of Yahweh in an attempt to miraculously remove the boalder. After several attempts the boalder still remained. Finally, Christ called out the name of Ba'al which caused the boalder to move. I'm sure I do not accept this story as a truth, but it is a curiosity. (I personally am not convinced that Jesus Christ was even a real person.)

Regarding the word "Shemhamforash". I understand that it is supposedly to be entoned by the Judeo-Christian God to bring about the annihiliation of the Universe. Can anyone verify this?

/Adramelek\

What is up with Judeo-Christian expression? I have constantly seen people use it on this forum. Two totally separate believes. It is not correct to say it because a lot of Christian believes are not only corrupted Jewish stories but most of them don't even exist in Judaism. Only gives the wrong image to Judaism.

Regarding the name, I'm sure you can find a lot of information on the internet but I just don't know how kosher that information would be.
 

Sireal

Setian
What is up with Judeo-Christian expression? I have constantly seen people use it on this forum. Two totally separate believes. It is not correct to say it because a lot of Christian believes are not only corrupted Jewish stories but most of them don't even exist in Judaism. Only gives the wrong image to Judaism.

Regarding the name, I'm sure you can find a lot of information on the internet but I just don't know how kosher that information would be.

Well, Arimoff, Judaism and Christianity are cut from the same cloth, have the same deity and are both mono-theistic. As this is a Left hand path forum we have here, our use of the term is not meant to denigrate either religion but to define the concept of Right Hand Path-that which causes a being to abdicate itself to a "higher" power in the objective universe like a man created deity-god, and Left hand Path. So, many LHP practitioners refer to the J/C/Islamic religions as one and the same and fundamentally they are, along with All other god/blind faith oriented religions. The Left hand Path is one of worship of the individual Psyche-these are the oldest "beliefs" held by mankind- that the individual is indeed god and may through thoughtful awareness and conscious application of intelligence become the Highest of Life, it was a stroke of genius to get mankind to give up this rightful attainment so they could be controlled by less scrupulous men, any way here's the official Temple of Set version of the definition:

"The Left Hand Path (LHP) involves the conscious attempt to preserve and strengthen ones isolate, psychecentric existence against the objective universe (OU) while apprehending, comprehending, and influencing a varying number of subjective universes (SU)."

"The Right Hand Path (RHP) involves the conscious attempt to dissolve or merge the self with the objective universe (OU)." Dr. Michael A. Aquino

So it is far more simple to say J/C or RHP when referring to constructs that do nothing for humankind but abdicate their personal responsibility to it. They always have been and always will be engines for self-annihilation and their doctrines are not worth the paper they are printed on and we do not waste time trying to validate recycled ignorance by defining it further than needs be, in the case of Judaism/ Christianity/Islam first you must give your Self to a man created god-that action ends any LHP interest immediately as it destroys the true divinity of the individual. I hope this helps.

Kind regards
 
Last edited:

Adramelek

Setian
Premium Member
Hello Arimoff,

I will agree that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam do have there theological differences. However, they are all three Right-Hand Path oriented, blind faith religions which embrace the subjugation of the Self to that of some higher authority. They are all in the same league.

We on the Path of the Left hold the Self/psyche as our Sanctum Sanctorum, it is immortal and cannot be destroyed.

For ever in the Black Flame of Set.
/Adramelek\
 

Darth Brooks

Gunslinger For Set
I agree with Arimoff that "Judeo-Christian" is a rather problematic term. While it may be appropriate for Christians, who stem from Judaic spirituality, it is not appropriate for Jews, who do not recognize Christianity as a valid part of Judaic experience. And while I appreciate and support the right of Sireal and Adramelek and others to define "LHP" and "RHP" as you find necessary, I must respectfully disagree with said definitions. I would agree that Judaism is "RHP," but not just because it involves worshiping an external deity. Worship does not always translate into self-denial - Tantrists, the Carpocratian Gnostics, and ancient Setians being particularly good cases in point. The evidence indicates that the ancient Setians actually worshiped and prayed to Set, much like every other pagan cult did with its deities at the time. I think a more helpful distinction to draw is whether the deity that is being worshiped is a "lawgiver" God, like monotheistic Gods are normally proposed to be, or a more "counter-cultural" deity like Set was understood to be. Obviously, worshiping the latter will require a more antinomian disposition (i.e., greater individual freedom) than that of worshiping the former. But if "RHP" and "LHP" are defined strictly by whether one worships an external deity or oneself, then it must be concluded that even the ancient Setians were "RHP," with which I cannot agree.
 
Top