Is the Survival of the Self or Ego an Important Facet of your Afterlife?

[StarryNightshade]

How important is it to you for your ego and self to survive death and enjoy an afterlife?

Not very, to be honest.

I have no idea what happens after death, so I try not to worry too much about the unknowable details.

 

[Quagmire]

I guess after you leave your ego and body behind...you live happily ever after.

Or until your new costumes arrive.

 

[Tumah]

Logically for merging with god all one would need for that is for pantheism or panentheism or some other variation of non-dualism to be the metaphysical foundation of the universe.

As in, god = all, or all is in god and god expands behind all. That's the basis of many religious worldviews, rather than an idea of god and the universe being these separate things.

Then it's not so much being consumed by or integrated with god but realizing that one never left in the first place.

Of course with such a broad set of worldviews, many people would view it in many ways and explain their view differently, including probably the OP.

I think I am a panentheist and that doesn't really work for me. But still, even saying that god=all, then that would mean one was already one with god. What makes one become more or less with god?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

I think I am a panentheist and that doesn't really work for me. But still, even saying that god=all, then that would mean one was already one with god. What makes one become more or less with god?

Let us say that your spirit is the breath of God, God has exhaled His breath or life into you. So when God inhales His breath or spirit back into Himself doesn't that mean that God has subsumed or integrated His breath back into Himself?

 

[psychoslice]

For me we are always in the source, we are the source, we have never adventured from the source, its just the mind that makes it seem we have, so after what we call death, nothing changes, we will be where we have always been.

 

[Penumbra]

Beats me.

I still have my ego.

Fair enough.

I just found it interesting because I'm fairly familiar with that sort of belief and yet also fascinated at how, perhaps because of the constraints of language or maybe the constraints of thought itself, an egoless state is still described with an ego.

For example, starting after your comma where it seemed to transition into discussing the afterlife, I underlined all your words that have to do with either identity or ownership. The ownership ones are particularly interesting to use in this context of egolessness. The description this being, or whatever it is, is apparently conscious, can do things like remember, can own things or have things associated with it, etc.

One scenario that appeals to me is that once you die, you drop your ego in the same way that you drop your body: your body is just the physical costume you wear while you're here, and the ego is just the mental costume.

All we really are is whatever it is that's going along for the ride experiencing whatever through our bodies and egos.

Once you die, you might remember what it was like to have a body and an ego, ie., you might remember what it felt like to have a body and you might remember what it was that your ego cared about, but none of it will matter to you.

It seems to be more like "an expanded ego" than a lack of an ego.

 

[Tumah]

Let us say that your spirit is the breath of God, God has exhaled His breath or life into you. So when God inhales His breath or spirit back into Himself doesn't that mean that God has subsumed or integrated His breath back into Himself?

That's hard for me to really contemplate because I have a deeply rooted understanding of that as a metaphor, since G-d does not actually breathe. So for me, the breathe is a metaphor for something that is deeply personal without actually being of that thing. Just like the air in my lungs is inside of me, but not a part of me. So its my breathe, but not my person.

It seems as though you are making a dichotomy between what is internal to G-d (but still G-d) and what is external to Him (but still Him).

 

[Penumbra]

I think I am a panentheist and that doesn't really work for me.

Panentheism semantically means basically "all in god".

But still, even saying that god=all, then that would mean one was already one with god.

Yes that's what I said in my post.

What makes one become more or less with god?

That depends on the precise worldview, the precise subset of panentheism or pantheism.

Usually it's described not so much as a becoming but instead of a realizing. You can't become what you already are, but you can realize or fail to realize what you already are. When you don't realize it, you have an illusion of separation. When you do realize it, you no longer have that illusion. That's a common description of the process.

 

[Quagmire]

It seems to be more like "an expanded ego" than a lack of an ego.

That's your ego talking.

 

[Penumbra]

That's your ego talking.

I don't claim to lack an ego nor was I the one to describe an egoless state yet still with ownership and identity.

I'm simply exploring what was said, asking about what would come next in such a situation (It always seems to stop with "and they lived happily ever after". I figure we should hear about their grandkids once in a while.) and pointing out that the description itself seems to still have properties of an ego and would seem at least to be more accurately described as an expanded ego rather than a lack of an ego if it still does have properties of an ego.

 

[Runewolf1973]

For me we are always in the source, we are the source, we have never adventured from the source, its just the mind that makes it seem we have, so after what we call death, nothing changes, we will be where we have always been.

Sounds rather like my first post in this thread.

 

[psychoslice]

Sounds rather like my first post in this thread.

Maybe we think alike ?.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Maybe we think alike ?.

:yes:

 

[arcanum]

I don't believe there's anything to "merge" into or become "one" with. I believe that after you die, you reincarnate when you feel ready. Some souls become earthbound for awhile and others choose to stay in another realm for awhile. When you decide to reincarnate, that's when you drop the "mask" of your previous identity and form a new one.

Ah but what aspect of the self exactly is it that reincarnates? Is it the ego? Is it the essence? Is it the soul? When you say you decide, what aspect of the self is the who that decides?

 

[George-ananda]

Here's how I see it based on the many masters and teachers I've come to respect.

Our normal waking consciousness is a physical body interpenetrated by an etheric and astral/mental body. A physical body alone can maintain no more than a comatose state, So at physical death, the consciousness experiences through the astral/mental body beyond the physical dimension. In fact, at first, you will be you, and not even realize you are what the world calls 'dead' (an experience reported in the NDE). You will just feel lighter with the grossest outer-coat (physical body) removed.

Consciousness is beyond all these bodies; physical and beyond the physical. Bodies allow consciousness to interact with the plane of matter the body is made of.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Ah but what aspect of the self exactly is it that reincarnates? Is it the ego? Is it the essence? Is it the soul? When you say you decide, what aspect of the self is the who that decides?

This is a tough question and I think it is one that cannot be fully answered. The way I see it, all matter is animated by the fundamental forces of nature. Even our ability to feel or appear conscious or aware is brought on by those fundamental forces. These are also called fundamental interactions. Because these interactions are fundamental to all matter, they neither cease, nor are they ever destroyed, but they result in the changes of form we see every day. Some fundamental part of us which interacts as our self remains intact after that transformation we call "death". What was our previous consciousness or awareness (that interactive force) most definitely changes form, but still interacts in a conscious-like manner. It does not cease to interact, it just interacts differently...in a less obvious, less noticeable manner.

 

[Runewolf1973]

You'll notice that I prefer a more physical explanation for those things we consider "spiritual". I don't actually believe in spiritual, supernatural, or non-physical things. I believe there exist physical properties, entities, or forms which are simply beyond our normal everyday ability to percieve. Like anything else, these forms are also subject to the laws of a natural, physical existence. Because of the fact that they are physical (at least the way I see it), they change form and they still interact, we are simply less aware of their existence.


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[idav]

OK......but that was what I said I couldn't understand. They have no capacity that I can imagine for memory.

I would like to address the above as I don't completely understand what your saying in this second part. I agree that consciousness needs memory. I believe that awareness is part of the information that cannot be destroyed but the awareness doesn't need memory. Pure awareness is consciousness minus the ego which is what I think your trying to get at below. However with your use of the word 'consciousness' after death is like trying to retain the unnecessary duality that does not reside with pure awareness. Pure awareness is non-dual. So I think we mostly agree maybe just not with the terms. Memory and reflection from our stand point is just ego. Like Cynthia alludes to, data never gets destroyed, especially in an omniscient type state, but memory isn't necessary in that state, it is just knowing without having to know that you know.

Here's how I see it based on the many masters and teachers I've come to respect.

Our normal waking consciousness is a physical body interpenetrated by an etheric and astral/mental body. A physical body alone can maintain no more than a comatose state, So at physical death, the consciousness experiences through the astral/mental body beyond the physical dimension. In fact, at first, you will be you, and not even realize you are what the world calls 'dead' (an experience reported in the NDE). You will just feel lighter with the grossest outer-coat (physical body) removed.

Consciousness is beyond all these bodies; physical and beyond the physical. Bodies allow consciousness to interact with the plane of matter the body is made of.

 

[George-ananda]

What I'm saying is all consciousnesses are really only One (Brahman). We are all Brahman. Below Brahman are multiple planes of matter, the densest is our normal physical world.

We are a ray of Brahman consciousness reflected through our soul body, astral/mental body and physical body. Each of these layers/bodies limits the infinite consciousness (Brahman).

Some use an onion analogy. The onion has its core/seed center surrounded by layers/rings of matter.

 

[George-ananda]

You'll notice that I prefer a more physical explanation for those things we consider "spiritual". I don't actually believe in spiritual, supernatural, or non-physical things. I believe there exist physical properties, entities, or forms which are simply beyond our normal everyday ability to percieve. Like anything else, these forms are also subject to the laws of a natural, physical existence. Because of the fact that they are physical (at least the way I see it), they change form and they still interact, we are simply less aware of their existence.


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Yes my beliefs are apparently different. How did you come about your beliefs?