Is the Theory of Evolution Harmless to Religion?

[Pah]

For me, abiogenesis is one of the proofs that God exists! This would make it anything but harmful. But I can understand your reticence to continue on when no one seems to understand or agree with your points.

Creation of life by natural means underscores the thought that God is not needed. Why seek a supernatural explanation of life when the natural explanation is complete? That is the question evolution poses.

Why create a deity for fire when science understands combustion?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

For me, abiogenesis is one of the proofs that God exists!

For those searching in vain for evidence of creation ex nihilo, NetDoc at least demonstrates the ability to create proofs out of absolutely nothing.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Why seek a supernatural explanation of life when the natural explanation is complete?

Pah,
When you can create life from amino acids at will in a test tube, then your argument will carry some weight. You faith is great that Science will someday be able to do this. Until then you are merely an "armchair God", telling everyone how the plays should be run but in reality never having the opportunity to take a single snap.

 

[Yerda]

When you can create life from amino acids at will in a test tube, then your argument will carry some weight.

Do you agree that upon consolidating the knowledge of life's natural formation, god will become an unnecessary agent in the equation?

Or would you continue arguing for a ghost in the machine?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

When you can create life from amino acids at will in a test tube, then your argument will carry some weight.

This is nothing more than an appeal to the God-of-the-Gaps.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Jaiket,

There are many things that need to be "splained"... LIFE is a biggy, and unlike yourself I don't have faith that science will ever crack this nut. Then there is sentience and even the existence of matter at all. Your apparent faith in science is as amazing to me as it is immense!


There is a Ghost in this machine we call Earth and it is Holy!

 

[Quiddity]

Why seek a supernatural explanation of life when the natural explanation is complete?

How is it complete Pah?

~Victor

 

[Quiddity]

This is nothing more than an appeal to the God-of-the-Gaps.

Totally....:jam:
God did it...

 

[Quiddity]

Jaiket,

There are many things that need to be "splained"... LIFE is a biggy, and unlike yourself I don't have faith that science will ever crack this nut.

Completely agree....:jam:

~ Victor

 

[Yerda]

There are many things that need to be "splained"... LIFE is a biggy, and unlike yourself I don't have faith that science will ever crack this nut.

I don't think we'll ever be able to say 'this is the answer'. I do have faith that science will produce results that allow a high degree of satisfaction. I'm not so sure I'll be alive to see them.

You do agree that gods need not participate in natural processes though, right?

Of course, you are entitled to suggest that your god created the natural laws that way, along with creating the natural processes that precipitate natural disasters and dominate human nature (war, genocide etc).

Then there is sentience and even the existence of matter at all.

Sentience is irrelevant methinks, but yes there will always be gaps in which the gods can hide.

Your apparent faith in science is as amazing to me as it is immense!

I suppose I 'trust' science as the proper tool to do the job, not without good reason though.

Why does this amaze you?

 

[michel]

I suppose I 'trust' science as the proper tool to do the job, not without good reason though.

Just one point Jaiket.......

When Stevenson built the rocket (steam locomotive - I shan't say 'invented', because I believe there are arguments as to whether he was the first guy to get a steam engine working), the scientist of the time told him he was mad.

His 'invention' was doomed to failure, and would result in the loss of life "Because everyone know that if a human being travelled at more than 20 mph (I am not sure of the figure), he would be unable to breathe................

Well, obviously the scientists of the day were 'wrong', and obviously, we know better nowadays.

However, extrapolate the discovery in it's degree of inventive 'strength', and who knows , in the future, we might well find that a belief we held in year 2005 was so absurd..........

Get the point ? - I just wanted to throw this 'what if' about scientific advances at you, because I wouldn't say that I have total faith..........
Thalidomide, radiation from mobile phones.....the damaging effects of pesticides....scientists haven't always been correct in their assumptions and prognoses........

 

[Quiddity]

I don't think we'll ever be able to say 'this is the answer'. I do have faith that science will produce results that allow a high degree of satisfaction. I'm not so sure I'll be alive to see them.

Jaiket, science produces results whether you are satisfied with the conclusions or not. It doesn't care about your satisfaction.

You do agree that gods need not participate in natural processes though, right?

No He doesn't. But if we include Him he is titled "God-of-the-gaps". Which is fine and dandy with me, but seems to irk others. One can completely exclude Him and we still hold on to "In the beggining...". Just watch what kinda of reaction this will get..

Of course, you are entitled to suggest that your god created the natural laws that way, along with creating the natural processes that precipitate natural disasters and dominate human nature (war, genocide etc).

Rrrrrright....Love, compassion, etc. etc.

Sentience is irrelevant methinks, but yes there will always be gaps in which the gods can hide.

As I said in another thread:
Absolutely. He hides to provoke those areas of the brain that people use everyday [consciousness] and then refuses to get measured by the intellectuals.

I suppose I 'trust' science as the proper tool to do the job, not without good reason though.

Why not both?

 

[Yerda]

Just one point Jaiket......Get the point ? - I just wanted to throw this 'what if' about scientific advances at you, because I wouldn't say that I have total faith..........

I agree with your point. Science is a toolbox, but as we know a screwdriver can be used to fasten on dryboard while decorating your living room, or can be used by the local neds (read:chavs) to cause injury. I often worry about the effects of big business on the integrity of science. I still think my trust is better placed in science to answer the questions that puzzle me, than in an entity that has never spoke to me.

 

[Yerda]

Jaiket, science produces results whether you are satisfied with the conclusions or not. It doesn't care about your satisfaction.

No He doesn't. But if we include Him he is titled "God-of-the-gaps". Which is fine and dandy with me, but seems to irk others. One can completely exclude Him and we still hold on to "In the beggining...". Just watch what kinda of reaction this will get..


Rrrrrright....Love, compassion, etc. etc.


As I said in another thread:
Absolutely. He hides to provoke those areas of the brain that people use everyday [consciousness] and then refuses to get measured by the intellectuals.


Why not both?

Several statements and not one coherent point. I get the feeling you're just arguing with me for the sake of it.

 

[Pah]

Pah,
When you can create life from amino acids at will in a test tube, then your argument will carry some weight. You faith is great that Science will someday be able to do this. Until then you are merely an "armchair God", telling everyone how the plays should be run but in reality never having the opportunity to take a single snap.

As Deut said - that is nothing more than a god of the gaps. It is as equally probable that aliens among us are as responsible as you think God is. Why should God be the default answer?

I do not have "faith" in science, as I think you use it, nor do I think everything will have a scietific expalantion. By the way, I took the snap and created another being. I even dug a ditch and created a waterway - the dirt from the ditch created a hill. You could see me doing those terra-forming things.

P.S. The ditch was a fib - but others have done it and I do have a son - other ditches, other waterways. And I saw a hill made of cast-off from mining. Go figure.

 

[Quiddity]

Several statements and not one coherent point. I get the feeling you're just arguing with me for the sake of it.

Nope. I asked a valid question and corrected you. Take it or leave it.

~Victor

 

[Quiddity]

As Deut said - that is nothing more than a god of the gaps. It is as equally probable that aliens among us are as responsible as you think God is. Why should God be the default answer?

That's not the way it works and you know that. It's not the "default answer" but one can reason to His existence in correlation to the objective world around us [people are evil, people love, etc.]. It's subjectivism becoming objective in my life and many others. War of the Worlds has yet to do that to me and millions of others.

~Victor

 

[Scuba Pete]

I don't think we'll ever be able to say 'this is the answer'. I do have faith that science will produce results that allow a high degree of satisfaction. I'm not so sure I'll be alive to see them.

Kudos to you for admitting to that heinous crime of faith. Most who place most/all of their faith in Science make it a point to decry faith as if they do not use it. Crazy funny for those of us who can see differently.

You do agree that gods need not participate in natural processes though, right?

Of course, you are entitled to suggest that your god created the natural laws that way, along with creating the natural processes that precipitate natural disasters and dominate human nature (war, genocide etc).

God did indeed create the laws of nature. They are his tools as much as a lathe is a machinist's tool.

Sentience is irrelevant methinks,

Only their posts!

but yes there will always be gaps in which the gods can hide.

I suppose I 'trust' science as the proper tool to do the job, not without good reason though.

Why does this amaze you?

I find that the term "God of the Gaps" is used mostly when trying to trivialize the beliefs of a deist. It is condescending at best, and only serves to stop discussion. What many characterize as a mere gap happens to be infinitely wide. That you have faith that science can conquer this spiritual chasm strikes me as being overly optimistic and based on blind faith in the resourcefulness of man.

 

[Scuba Pete]

As Deut said - that is nothing more than a god of the gaps.

I wouldn't know what Deut says. Neither do I care.

It is as equally probable that aliens among us are as responsible as you think God is. Why should God be the default answer?

I see, an Alien of the Gaps theory. If it works for you, please use it.

I do not have "faith" in science, as I think you use it, nor do I think everything will have a scietific expalantion.

You just don't recognise it, that's all. You utilise faith each and every day. It's OK, and it's not as "shallow" as many would make it out to be.

By the way, I took the snap and created another being. I even dug a ditch and created a waterway - the dirt from the ditch created a hill. You could see me doing those terra-forming things.

P.S. The ditch was a fib - but others have done it and I do have a son - other ditches, other waterways. And I saw a hill made of cast-off from mining. Go figure.

I don't doubt for a moment that you consider yourself a God. That would be consistent with my earlier exchanges with you.

 

[Quiddity]

I find that the term "God of the Gaps" is used mostly when trying to trivialize the beliefs of a deist. It is condescending at best, and only serves to stop discussion.

Why didn't I think of that!!