Is the US founded on "Christian values" ?

[tumbleweed41]

Concerning the Bill of Rights, or the amendments embracing the naturalistic philosophy of the Enlightenment of a civil society based on natural rights and the "contract theory" of morality, I would suggest reading John Locke's 'Two Treatises of Government'.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Is it more reasonable to suggest that the U.S. was founded on Christian culture? I certainly do.

I have a hard time agreeing that Christian theological values were integral in the founding. I think it's debatable. But I think it's obvious that Christian culture is imbued and saturated in the founding and in the proliferation from the original colonies to the states we have today.

 

[Father Heathen]

If our laws were truly of biblical origin, we would obviously be a theocracy. Freedom, equality, democracy...where are these in the bible?

 

[McBell]

So is the claim that Christianity had absolutely no influence on the founding of the US?

 

[Father Heathen]

So is the claim that Christianity had absolutely no influence on the founding of the US?

Sure it had influence, but it wasn't the basis.

 

[tumbleweed41]

So is the claim that Christianity had absolutely no influence on the founding of the US?

Of course not.

The question is how much influence "Christian Values" had on the founding of the US.

 

[McBell]

Of course not.

The question is how much influence "Christian Values" had on the founding of the US.

Fair enough.

Just out of curiosity, what other religions were the founding fathers exposed to?

I mean, if all they were exposed to was Christianity, even if they were not Christians themselves, would not Christianity play a big part in their thinking?

 

[McBell]

Sure it had influence, but it wasn't the basis.

Ok.
What was the basis for the founding of the US?

 

[Father Heathen]

Ok.
What was the basis for the founding of the US?

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

 

[McBell]

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

um...

You do not know what the basis for the founding of the US was other than it was NOT Christianity?

 

[Father Heathen]

um...

You do not know what the basis for the founding of the US was other than it was NOT Christianity?

Was it not the desire for sovereignty and independence?

 

[gnomon]

The problem is the lack of a precise definition of Christian values or even Christian culture. All we've got so far is that since people called themselves Christians than anything they did was informed by Christianity.

A poorly informed argument.

On the other hand we have direct, documented evidence as to the reasons for independence. It was about economics and political freedom. Now Weber offered up a theory about the Protestant work ethic being the basis of capitalism. Someone could attempt to run with that.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Fair enough.

Just out of curiosity, what other religions were the founding fathers exposed to?

I mean, if all they were exposed to was Christianity, even if they were not Christians themselves, would not Christianity play a big part in their thinking?

I have posted quite a few links throughout the thread about the overwhelming influence the Enlightenment Age had on both the Revolution and the founding of the United States.

 

[McBell]

I have posted quite a few links throughout the thread about the overwhelming influence the Enlightenment Age had on both the Revolution and the founding of the United States.

I have never heard of the Enlightenment Age Religion.
Perhaps you would be good enough to give a link or two seeing as nothing you have presented in this thread mentions the Enlightenment Age Religion?

 

[blackout]

I would say no because the ''Foundation'' started when Europeans came to the New-Land called ''America'' now and killed many natives i am pretty sure the NWT doesn't teaches us that. The title clearly says: Is the US founded on "Christian values" ?

Oddly ignored... but to my mind, this post/line of thought wins the thread.

 

[blackout]

I would say no because the ''Foundation'' started when Europeans came to the New-Land called ''America'' now and killed many natives i am pretty sure the NWT doesn't teaches us that. The title clearly says: Is the US founded on "Christian values" ?

The religion of the Native Americans was Inherent to their very way of life.
They were inseperable.

There was no equality of life or religion for them.
(all people created equal and all that)

This however is both characteristic of the history of Christianity
and the history of politics.
Conquest, plunder, pillage, posture, spin, steal, manipulate, lie.....

So perhaps the UnitedStates really was founded on Christian values.

What we actually DO is far more telling of what we truly value,
than what we say (we value).

So much for the politics of both politics and religion.

 

[blackout]

Is it more reasonable to suggest that the U.S. was founded on Christian culture? I certainly do.

I have a hard time agreeing that Christian theological values were integral in the founding. I think it's debatable. But I think it's obvious that Christian culture is imbued and saturated in the founding and in the proliferation from the original colonies to the states we have today.

What even ARE christian values?

I agree. Christian culture was distinctly present (and pervasive)
in the founding 'everything'.
(of what we call the United States of America)

Excellent distinction ,Mystic. :clap

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

What even ARE christian values?

I agree. Christian culture was distinctly present (and pervasive)
in the founding 'everything'.
(of what we call the United States of America)

Excellent distinction ,Mystic. :clap

That is true...
However the first comers came to...
either avoid a bad situation
or gain a better richer life.
neither goal was assured as most colonies were at below a sustainable population and skill level, and had just as strict social rules.

Being able to worship in the style of their belief was certainly a large factor amongst many of them. They had no thought, at all, about the wellbeing of other faiths.
The faith of the native was hardly understood and not a concern.
Their culture remained what it had always been ... Christian... flavoured by their own beliefs.

These new colonies adopted the Christian culture of their population.The ex English, ex Scottish, ex French and ex Dutch ones adopted the Christian cultures and laws of their homelands and built churches.

Small colonies enlarged into territories that eventually established states. A majority of these were ruled from England and and accepted the English common law. ( which by that time had been Christianised for many hundreds of years.)

This was the raw material of the new USA.

The war was not about religion or the enlightenment or any other dogma...
It was about self determination, avoidance of tax, self interest and breaking the domination of England over their affairs.

Only a small number of vocal activists and political leaders led this revolt, at no time were they able to persuade the majority to join the fight on their side. The number of British soldiers was fortunately very small, and the majority of their army was made up of colonists, and it seems some natives. England sent no reinforcements. the final result became inevitable if slow.

After the war the leaders of the colonists on the British side were sidelined. The Remaining rebel leaders were able to force through their opinions on the various committees, and took the major part in writing the various documents that we see today.

It is probably true that these documents represented the views of those authors, and the wording was only accepted by the majority, when any hint of advantage to one party or another was resolved. Hence the ability to bear arms, the Freedom of religion (one faith could no longer hold power over other faiths) and the various rights to hold land and property.
Central power from that day was emasculated, and split into its three major components. Even then a majority of "day to day" power remained with the various new states.

So where does faith fit into this power distribution... it does not, it was disenfranchised from all forms of government. No faith would ever be able to trump another.

At a stroke, Faith was remove from government, but the position of personal faith was strengthened and protected, not by the power of any church but by the full force of law.

All through this process "Society" remained solidly Christian.

 

[Sunstone]

I have never heard of the Enlightenment Age Religion.
Perhaps you would be good enough to give a link or two seeing as nothing you have presented in this thread mentions the Enlightenment Age Religion?

The European Enlightenment replaced many traditional Christian values with secular values. There was no European Enlightenment Religion -- albeit, at one point, the French attempted to set one up, but it failed.

 

[work in progress]

The religion of the Native Americans was Inherent to their very way of life.
They were inseperable.

There was no equality of life or religion for them.
(all people created equal and all that)

This however is both characteristic of the history of Christianity
and the history of politics.
Conquest, plunder, pillage, posture, spin, steal, manipulate, lie.....

As far as anthropologists are aware, every religious system began as pantheistic and inseparable from everyday life. We have been led to assume that agriculture and civilization inevitably led to established hierarchies and a dualistic worldview -- separating the material world from the spiritual, and treating the material world as a product for exploitation. But, this is only true mostly in the Western, Abrahamic traditions. Hinduism never recognized this separation, although one could argue that modern India has incorporated western attitudes about nature in the quest for economic growth.

Other than sheer greed, I don't see any valid reason why India couldn't have followed the advice of Mahatma Gandhi, and focused on development that benefited the majority living in rural villages, rather than trying to establish a western model of prosperity...but that's a whole nother debate! In the present, the "American Way" is either going to go into a controlled decline, or go over a cliff in a total collapse, so future historians (if civilization survives) may rule that the American adventurers and plunderers who exhausted all the natural resources available in less than two centuries, should have listened to some of what those native chiefs were trying to tell them, instead of driving them off the land and trying to convert them to our way of life.

So perhaps the UnitedStates really was founded on Christian values.

What we actually DO is far more telling of what we truly value,
than what we say (we value).

So much for the politics of both politics and religion.

I tried to advance the point that going right back to the first Puritan colonies, these settlers were not only trying to escape religious persecution in England and Continental Europe, the long perilous sea voyage and the struggles in the new land, also instilled them with a sense of Manifest Destiny. This aggressively exploitive philosophy can't all be dumped on Andrew Jackson. It's roots go all the way back to the very first colonists and their sense of superiority over nature, over dark-skinned peoples of the world, and especially over non-Christians.