Is the USA founded on christianity?

[jamesmorrow]

when asked this question, the majority of us citizens will immediately think of "one nation under god" and "in god we trust"...... despite the fact that this does not specify the christian god. is it a fair argument for a religious founding in general?

unfortunately. the majority of american christians are also ignorant to the following facts:

1. USA fas founded in the mid to late 1700s

2. "in god we trust" was officially adopted in the mid 1900s, it didnt even unofficially appear on coins till the mid 1800s

3. the words "under god" was not added to the pledge until the mid 1900s



so how exactly can someone in their right mind argue a religious founding with a pledge and motto that were implemented almost two centuries after the founding?

 

[idav]

At best theism was a thought but not the christian god.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

America wasn't founded on Christianity. I think there might have been some inspiration there, but not much more, and as idav pointed out, there was a recognition of a higher power, but not specifically the Christian god.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

At best theism was a thought but not the christian god.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

Deism not theism. One of the principle of the Enlightenment.

 

[zenzero]

Friends,

Let us examine it in another way.
Would USA have attacked all the countries it has so far if it was based on the principle of *LOVE THY NEIGHBOR*?

Deism has the potential to connect with every human being because every human being possesses God-given reason.

Deism Defined, Welcome to Deism, Deist Glossary and Frequently Asked Questions
Can killing be equated to *connecting* with every human being??
Let us study this through this discussion here!

Love & rgds

 

[JohnG]

I think the Treaty of Tripoli, signed in 1796 and ratified in 1797 is pretty clear on that issue. It starts, "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."
People will still say that America is a Christian nation when they want to push their Christian beliefs on the rest of us though.

 

[jamesmorrow]

I think the Treaty of Tripoli, signed in 1796 and ratified in 1797 is pretty clear on that issue. It starts, "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."
People will still say that America is a Christian nation when they want to push their Christian beliefs on the rest of us though.

yes, if you also look at the fact that, unlike many other countries, the USA has no official religion...its a historical slam dunk. the usa was not founded on christianity.... however over time, christian activist groups have made some serious progress in turning this into a murky issue....government shall make no laws respecting an establishment of religion..... yet churches and preachers are tax exempt???? some idiot stands behind a pulpit and goes on a rant about how an imaginary space gene hates homosexuals, masturbation and condoms, and we reward them with tax exemption?.... how stupid is that....homosexuality is illegal due to christian propaganda..even birth control and abortion are still an issue.....presidential candidates have to announce their christian faith if they wish to have a chance at winning, and so on. ........i guess we can only be glad its not as bad as current islamic theocracies...

 

[Corkscrew]

when asked this question, the majority of us citizens will immediately think of "one nation under god" and "in god we trust"...... despite the fact that this does not specify the christian god. is it a fair argument for a religious founding in general?

unfortunately. the majority of american christians are also ignorant to the following facts:

1. USA fas founded in the mid to late 1700s

2. "in god we trust" was officially adopted in the mid 1900s, it didnt even unofficially appear on coins till the mid 1800s

3. the words "under god" was not added to the pledge until the mid 1900s



so how exactly can someone in their right mind argue a religious founding with a pledge and motto that were implemented almost two centuries after the founding?

It is done in a desperate attempt to validate their religious beliefs as the recognized truth.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

It is done in a desperate attempt to validate their religious beliefs as the recognized truth.

It's actually a little bit deeper than that. The early Puritans seen themselves as part of a recurring theme in Christianity. It started with the Pauline break from Jewish law, the Christians setting themselves up as the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy. Martin Luther took up this theme in his break from the Catholic church, seeing himself as a successor to the early Christians, and just as they broke away from what they seen as religious legalism, he was doing the same by breaking from the Catholic church with it's canon law and sacraments. The Puritans would do the same, seeing themselves as breaking away from Anglican legalism, and seeing America as God's new chosen land, given to the "true believers". This is the reason why they believe that not only was the United States founded on Christianity, but it must remain so, or the whole world will come crashing down. They see this as God's chosen land, in much the same way that Israel was during biblical times. This is also their reason for believing that liberalism wouldn't work here, while it does in much of Europe, because they see America as the promised land.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Friends,

Let us examine it in another way.
Would USA have attacked all the countries it has so far if it was based on the principle of *LOVE THY NEIGHBOR*?
Deism Defined, Welcome to Deism, Deist Glossary and Frequently Asked Questions
Can killing be equated to *connecting* with every human being??
Let us study this through this discussion here!

Love & rgds

I didn't know the Founding Fathers had the interweb to tell them what Deism is.

 

[1137]

No, the Founders were a mix of different beliefs. Many were deists, Freemasons, some were Christians I am sure, maybe others too. But the country was not founded on Christianity but freedom. So, Christianity has no right to take our freedom away, despite what they believe.

 

[JohnG]

It's actually a little bit deeper than that. The early Puritans seen themselves as part of a recurring theme in Christianity. It started with the Pauline break from Jewish law, the Christians setting themselves up as the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy. Martin Luther took up this theme in his break from the Catholic church, seeing himself as a successor to the early Christians, and just as they broke away from what they seen as religious legalism, he was doing the same by breaking from the Catholic church with it's canon law and sacraments. The Puritans would do the same, seeing themselves as breaking away from Anglican legalism, and seeing America as God's new chosen land, given to the "true believers". This is the reason why they believe that not only was the United States founded on Christianity, but it must remain so, or the whole world will come crashing down. They see this as God's chosen land, in much the same way that Israel was during biblical times. This is also their reason for believing that liberalism wouldn't work here, while it does in much of Europe, because they see America as the promised land.

There are two problems with that logic though, first, those events were pre-revolutionary war and pre-founding of our country. Second, the first permanent settlers to this land weren't the puritans, they were the settlers from the Virginia company to Jamestown. They came here for the sole-purpose to make money. The same goes for the first failed settlers to arrive, the ones at Roanoke Colony. They were sent here to make money off of the new world and to provide a base of operations for privateer attacks against the Spanish ships. So it is still revisionist history.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Is the USA founded on christianity?

It very much depends what one means by "founded on."

... so how exactly can someone in their right mind argue a religious founding with a pledge and motto that were implemented almost two centuries after the founding?

Pummel that straw man! :clap

 

[ForeverFaithful]

All major documents the USA is founded on (DoI and the Const.) make reference to a deity
The Paris treaty that ended the revolution makes reference to the Holy Trinity
The Predominate Religion for all of America's post-colonial history has been Christianity, and during the Great Awakenings Evangelicals felt it their job to reform society
America was noted as one of the most Christian nations by other nations of the world
The Puritians who first came over sought to make America a city on a hill
and on top of that Secularism was an idea developed by Protestants in repose to the abuses of the Catholic church

 

[tumbleweed41]

All major documents the USA is founded on (DoI and the Const.) make reference to a deity
The Paris treaty that ended the revolution makes reference to the Holy Trinity
The Predominate Religion for all of America's post-colonial history has been Christianity, and during the Great Awakenings Evangelicals felt it their job to reform society
America was noted as one of the most Christian nations by other nations of the world
The Puritians who first came over sought to make America a city on a hill
and on top of that Secularism was an idea developed by Protestants in repose to the abuses of the Catholic church

1. The Treaty of Paris does not mention America being "founded" on anything. What it says is, "In the Name of the most Holy & undivided Trinity.", and then goes on to the actual Treaty. The Treaty of Tripoly reads in Article XI,"As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion;"
2. The Declaration of Independence states, "..Laws of Nature and of Nature's God.." and "..Creator...". Both reflecting the philosophy of the Enlightenment Age of Universalist Christians and Deists at that time.
3. The Constitution of the United States makes no reference to any deities.
4. Post-colonial settlers did not found the United States of America. Enlightenment Age colonials did.
5. The Great Awakening occurred in the late 18th, early 19th Centuries and has nothing to do with this countries founding.

Have you read the Jefferson Bible? Thomas Paines "Common Sense"? Ben Franklins Essays and Autobiography? John Adam's letters?


These men were instrumental in our countries founding.


Learn from history, don't attempt to rewrite it.

 

[ForeverFaithful]

1. The Treaty of Paris does not mention America being "founded" on anything. What it says is, "In the Name of the most Holy & undivided Trinity.", and then goes on to the actual Treaty. The Treaty of Tripoly reads in Article XI,"As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion;"
2. The Declaration of Independence states, "..Laws of Nature and of Nature's God.." and "..Creator...". Both reflecting the philosophy of the Enlightenment Age of Universalist Christians and Deists at that time.
3. The Constitution of the United States makes no reference to any deities.
4. Post-colonial settlers did not found the United States of America. Enlightenment Age colonials did.
5. The Great Awakening occurred in the late 18th, early 19th Centuries and has nothing to do with this countries founding.

Have you read the Jefferson Bible? Thomas Paines "Common Sense"? Ben Franklins Essays and Autobiography? John Adam's letters?


These men were instrumental in our countries founding.


Learn from history, don't attempt to rewrite it.

John Adam was unorthodox but Christian, however the rest of the founding fathers were Christian, a few Deists doesn't discount the rest

 

[CynthiaCypher]

John Adam was unorthodox but Christian, however the rest of the founding fathers were Christian, a few Deists doesn't discount the rest

Dude. You're from Canada.

 

[tumbleweed41]

John Adam was unorthodox but Christian, however the rest of the founding fathers were Christian, a few Deists doesn't discount the rest

So...you haven't read any of the books, letters or essays I mentioned.
Nor do you have any idea of the effects the Age of Enlightenment had on the founding of our country.

OK

 

[Valjean]

I say "bless you" when someone sneezes, but that doesn't make me a theist. It's a convention.
Europe was drenched in religion for hundreds of years. It seeped into the language.

The US was a product of the enlightenment, a radical experiment in humanism. Our founding fathers were well aware of the excesses of the early religious colonies. They remembered the recent religious wars in Europe. They knew religion was like fire -- useful if kept small, isolated and under control but devastating if out of control.

If you really want to understand the 18th century Zeitgeist and the minds of the founding fathers you won't get it from cherry picking expressions from formal, public documents. Read their letters, their diaries, contemporary newspaper articles and the Federalist Papers.

 

[JohnG]

John Adam was unorthodox but Christian, however the rest of the founding fathers were Christian, a few Deists doesn't discount the rest

There were more than a few. And besides, being a Christian does not equal founding a country on Christianity. But if we want to play that game, Anglo-Saxon Common Law, upon which our country is framed, is a creation of European pagans, as is trial by jury.
The concept of a Republic, which is what our government is, originated with the Greek and Roman pagans. So, is it fair of me to say that America was founded on paganism, just because I am one and want it to be so? No. It was founded on ideas which came from pagans. Not to be confused with ideas that came from paganism. Ideas about governance need not be tied to a religion. The Treaty of Tripoli, the writings of the founders on the importance of freedom of religion, and the first amendment are all very clear about the issue.
Keep in mind that the word God does not automatically equate to Jehovah. Deists also believed in a God, that was radically different from Jehovah. It's okay to admit that America was not founded on Christianity. It was not founded on my religion either, nor was it founded on the religion of the Hellenists. Although there is far more Heathen and Hellenist influence in the day to day workings of our government than there are Christian influences, those are influences of the people of those cultures, not the religion.