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Is the Vatican Jesus different from the Gnostic Jesus?

sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
HUH? I'm taliking about the books that were removed by the Roman Empire who complied the canonical books of the Bible. The link agrees with me.
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The Roman Empire didn't set the canon. The Church did. None of it happened at Nicea.
 
O

Oberon

Well-Known Member
sojourner said:
All of the gospels are redacted.
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True enough, but some are more interested in recording the Jesus tradition than others.


Thomas doesn't add anything about Jesus -- it does corroborate some important things; Thomas is important because it adds to our knowledge base of early Xian communities and how they thought.
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I completely agree with both of these statements
 
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Oberon

Well-Known Member
VinDino11 said:
Just an ill-conceived opinion, unless you can back it with a credible and supporting link.

This link agrees with me that the many councils removed many manuscripts and new formulas were composed. Read it all, and then search for yourself.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Nicene Creed
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Are you sure you read your own citation? Where does it say that manuscripts were removed from the canon?

As for a better source, I already gave you one: The Canon of the New Testament: Its Origin, Development, and Significance by Bruce M. Metzger
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Just an ill-conceived opinion, unless you can back it with a credible and supporting link.
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websites are not considered to be "credible."
Try reading some actual church history on Nicea.
 
Mr Cheese

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
VinDino11 said:
I don't believe so.

But the Vatican's meddling in removing much of what Jesus said leads one to wonder why? If the Catholic Church is of the Christian faith, then Jesus is their cornerstone of that faith, and everything Jesus said must be presented as faith.

But look at how many Bible revisions. How many councils!

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Nicene Creed
http://www.nbufront.org/html/MastersMuseums/DocBen/BibleChrono.html

The lost books. How many have been removed. "WHY?"

The Lost Books of the Bible - Hidden Truth - The List A - B
Lost, Forgotten Books and Ancient Sacred Texts
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Depends

there are quite a few Gnostic groups

many that outright say, yes, the two are very different.

The Sethians for example in the Gospel of Judas accuse the disciples of being stupid, ignorant and essentially agents of evil. Judas himself is seen to be the agent of illusion, and the supreme being that traps mankind from getting back to "heaven"....

Some are more sympathetic, Saint valentinus for Example was nearly Pope and is the "head" of an entire Gnostic sect.

Howeverr even Valentinuses cosmology differs greatly from what is now called Christinaity by the vatican.

A modern Gnostic interpretation/approach is that the historical Jesus is less accurate, but that the two are the same being.

But like I said it is not cut and dry. At least one Gnostic group for example says that the Jews crucified Jesus, not the romans, other groups deny the crucifiction totally.

to conclude:

I would largely say NO
 
O

Oberon

Well-Known Member
You still haven't backed your claim that your citation from that website on the council of Nicaea removed any manuscripts from the canon.

VinDino11 said:
So many websites, but I know you don't trust the Internet, only when the contented of the web-site has been written down in a book will you find it credible. LOL
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No, peer-reviewed articles are good too. Also, I don't trust just any book but prefer those written by people qualified and published by a reputable publisher.
 
V

VinDino11

Active Member
sojourner said:
websites are not considered to be "credible."
Try reading some actual church history on Nicea.
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Stop it, this only makes you sound naive and ill-informed! ROTF

Are you trying to bad mouth and belittle Societies such as the Nag Hammadi library?
And that only in their written books do they publish the facts?
Nag Hammadi Library

Can you not see how naive and ill-informed you're sounding? LOL

I suggest you disembark from your comatose ramble trying to diminish your credibility and resume cognitive behavior.
 
Mr Cheese

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
Oberon said:
Because the vast majority of apocryphal gospels are very late. They show little to know interest in the "historical" Jesus (the Jesus the "messiah" who preached in first century palestine and was believed to have resurrected). The are mostly gnostic treatises, and none of them have anything which would aid a historical (or christian) understanding of Jesus.
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Thats because they aren't all that interested in History...

But that's your game.

if you were studying Hinduism, you would conclude ancient indians had blue skin and rode on flying chariots and were perpetually at war
 
O

Oberon

Well-Known Member
VinDino11 said:
Stop it, this only makes you sound naive and ill-informed! ROTF

Are you trying to bad mouth and belittle Societies such as the Nag Hammadi library?
And that only in their written books do they publish the facts?
Nag Hammadi Library
Click to expand...


The Nag Hammadi Library is a single collection of texts found buried in the desert. It is not "societies."


I suggest you disembark from your comatose ramble trying to diminish your credibility and resume cognitive behavior.
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Hey, you spelt it right this time! Still doesn't make sense though.
 
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