• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

is there a god?

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
I believe it is false

I don't. I drew that conclusion all by myself also, after reading the entire bible when I was 16-17 years old.
It was rather quickly apparent to me.

God created the house to be perfect.

Is that why he placed the "serpent", the very embodiment of Evil, in that house knowing it would successfully trick the ignorant blank slate humans into doing what they weren't supposed to be doing? Is that why he put the "off limits" trees there, within reach?

This is like putting 2 4-year olds in a room with a loaded gun on the table , and then putting a psychopathic babysit in charge who tells the children that they can play with said gun. And then being surprised that they shoot themselves or eachother - and even blaming the kids for it.

There's nothing "perfect" about this. Instead, it's incredibly stupid and irresponsible. And completely the fault of the one who sets up that situation.


However the fire started it was not God who started it

That doesn't mean he is not ultimately responsible.
If you create an extremely flammable home and then put kids in there and give them matches to play with (or add a psychopath who will convince the children to play with matches), then that is your responsability.

A mafia don is also ultimately responsible for all the crimes that are carried out by his underbosses under his watch. Even when he didn't directly order them.

When 3-year olds shoot someone with a gun that was simply laying around the house, it's also the owner of said gun that is held responsible - not the child.

I have no problem understanding that God would wish to restore the house to perfection.

It was never perfect. A perfect house, for starters, doesn't have the very embodiment of evil in their as a resident. Neither does it have unnecessary temptations.

And supposedly being all-knowing, he would have known what it would inevitably result in - as a direct result of his own design decisions.

He has only himself to blame.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
… They loved God and God loved them. …

Why do you think they loved God? I think they would not have rejected God, if so.

… did God allows this temptation to happen, which ultimately caused the downfall of man? …

I believe it is, because God wanted to give the chance to reject Him and know evil. But I think it is not a problem. People were expelled to this first death, because they wanted to know evil. Because of that we are in this “Matrix”, where we can experience things through our body. This is like short lesson about good and right. Those who are or become righteous, have then opportunity to go back to life. And those who love more evil than good, have only this short lesson. Nothing of this world can destroy soul, which is the important thing, that is why we should not worry about things that happen here.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Why did God allows Satan to tempt Adam and Eve knowing that they would fail? I mean everything was going so well! They loved God and God loved them. Then Why? Why? did God allows this temptation to happen, which ultimately caused the downfall of man? And then of course God send the flood that killed thousands of men, women and children. After that, well we know what happened to the Egyptians. How many plagues did they have to go through? five ? six? even more? And then of course the killing of the first born of Egypt? was all this necessary? infanticide is what it was.
My question is why you believe that mythical stories about God are true stories?
And then somewhere down the line - Hitler. Who killed how many Jews? 6 million I believe? why? what possible reason could there be for allowing 6 million people to be killed?
God allowed it because we have free will and God does not interfere with free will: 70: FREE WILL.
of course then there are the horrible things that happen day to day. But then we are told that Jesus came to die for our sins. But is that not similar to burning a house, setting it on fire and then rushing in to rescue the people inside? I don't understand.
Join the crowd. I do not understand the suffering either, not fully. I know it is supposed to be for our spiritual growth, but I do not understand why it is so unequally distributed. I also know that suffering will all end when we die and go to the spiritual world (heaven), if we played our cards right.
 
Why do you think they loved God? I think they would not have rejected God, if so.



I believe it is, because God wanted to give the chance to reject Him and know evil. But I think it is not a problem. People were expelled to this first death, because they wanted to know evil. Because of that we are in this “Matrix”, where we can experience things through our body. This is like short lesson about good and right. Those who are or become righteous, have then opportunity to go back to life. And those who love more evil than good, have only this short lesson. Nothing of this world can destroy soul, which is the important thing, that is why we should not worry about things that happen here.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46
this is a great point of view! -Why do you think they loved God? I think they would not have rejected God, if so.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
God gave humanity a choice to be good in the way God created humanity. Or to disobey the guidelines that was put down.

Humans chose to see with the eyes of self/ego to say I want this no matter what. So humans have to face consequences of their own action when they do not follow the guidelines that God gave.

The choice is to each human to pick the guidelines or the ego.
Blaming God does not solve the problem.
Only each human being can solve their own ego/self to avoid continoues suffering.

The choice is yours alone :)
 

thomas t

non-denominational Christian
I believe the Bible stories are all real.
Why did God allows Satan to tempt Adam and Eve knowing that they would fail?
I personally doubt God's all-time omniscience.
Mainstream theology teaches it.
But if you don't find scripture to show that he in fact did, does and will know everything... then it is conjecture. Even if it's mainstream theology.
Bible trumps theology, in my view.
But let me argue from a standpoint of God's omniscience.
God delivered freedom of choice and man chose disobedience.
Hitler. Who killed how many Jews? 6 million I believe? why? what possible reason could there be for allowing 6 million people to be killed?
But the German people allowed this to happen. Hitler came to power by majority vote.
Afterwards, he segregated the Jews out before everyone's eyes, the Germans knew how he saw the Jews. And yet they supported him it seems.
So, no reason to resort to blame shifting and blame God instead.

What could God's reason (hidden plan) possibly be for allowing six millions Jews to be tortured and killed in Concentration camps? Once prisoner once wrote on the wall - "IF there is a God he will have to beg for my forgiveness........."
If there is a German people then they will have to beg for their forgiveness. Not God.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
If I may take all of these occurrences in a sum total and explain why God allowed it all to take place.....

Why did God allows Satan to tempt Adam and Eve knowing that they would fail?

He did not set them up to fail.....he allowed them to make a choice, warning in advance what would happen if they disobeyed him. Its called free will and its part of being made in God's image and likeness.

Humans are not the only ones with free will and it needs to be stressed that the first rebel was not human.
A once perfect angel got a carried away with his own magnificence and wanted to be worshipped like his Creator.

Ezekiel 28:12-17 says of this once beautiful creature.......
"You are sealing up a pattern, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 In Eʹden, the garden of God, you proved to be. Every precious stone was your covering. . . .In the day of your being created they were made ready. 14 You are the anointed cherub that is covering, and I have set you. On the holy mountain of God you proved to be. In the midst of fiery stones you walked about. 15 You were faultless in your ways from the day of your being created until unrighteousness was found in you.

17 “Your heart became haughty because of your beauty You brought your wisdom to ruin on account of your beaming splendor."


This appointed guardian angel who was stationed in the Garden of Eden began to entertain wrong thinking and instead of dismissing these thoughts, he dwelt on them and turned them into action. (James 1:13-15)

There are millions of other magnificent angels in heaven according to the Bible, and all have free will. Whatever God's response was to this rebellion had to be such that another 'satan' could never take humanity, or his fellow angels down this track again.

"Telling" them the folly of disobedience wasn't enough....so God allowed them to 'reap what they had sown'.....to "demonstrate" in real terms what it meant to go against the will of God in order to implement their own will.......so God allowed the one they chose to obey, to rule over them. (1 John 5:19)

Romans 6:16...
"Do you not know that if you keep presenting yourselves to anyone as slaves to obey him, you are slaves of him because you obey him, either of sin with death in view or of obedience with righteousness in view?”

We choose who we will obey.

I mean everything was going so well! They loved God and God loved them. Then Why? Why? did God allows this temptation to happen, which ultimately caused the downfall of man?

God told them how to have a wonderful life....and gave them everything they would need to live in paradise conditions forever, filling the earth with their children and extending the boundaries of their garden home until the whole earth resembled Eden......all they had to do was respect God's Sovereign right to set the reasonable limits of their freedom. When someone's free will is abused, the free will of others is compromised. God wanted to teach his children how to drive this wonderful gift, but disobedience turned it into a curse.

And then of course God send the flood that killed thousands of men, women and children. After that, well we know what happened to the Egyptians. How many plagues did they have to go through? five ? six? even more? And then of course the killing of the first born of Egypt? was all this necessary? infanticide is what it was. And then somewhere down the line - Hitler. Who killed how many Jews? 6 million I believe? why? what possible reason could there be for allowing 6 million people to be killed?

All these episodes involved acts of disobedience.....it wasn't like they didn't know better....or that God did not warn them about the consequences of their actions....but they chose to disobey the Creator and he demonstrated that ignoring their rightful Sovereign had consequences.

The one thing that we must not forget, is that God has the power and authority over life and death. What he takes away, he can restore, so there are no lives lost that cannot be returned in a promised resurrection. (John 5:28-29)

This is an object lesson of mammoth proportions, designed to test out every way that humans can think up, to guide their own lives without him. God knew that they would fail...but they had to find out the hard way.

We are in the throes of learning what it means to obey God and to use wisdom in exercising our free will......
King Solomon wrote...
"The conclusion of the matter, everything having been heard, is: Fear the true God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole obligation of man. 14 For the true God will judge every deed, including every hidden thing, as to whether it is good or bad."

It is not just a choice, but an obligation. God will judge between good and bad because humans can't always tell the difference. That is why he wanted to keep that determination to himself. It was never going to benefit them.

of course then there are the horrible things that happen day to day. But then we are told that Jesus came to die for our sins. But is that not similar to burning a house, setting it on fire and then rushing in to rescue the people inside?

God built the house, but the devil used the humans to burn it down. They suffered painful burns in the process. God sent Jesus to repair the damage and to help rehabilitate them and get them back to what God purposed in the beginning.

I don't understand.

The Bible explains it all very clearly. God always finishes what he starts (Isaiah 55:11).....and it always turns out right in the end.
In our case, whatever we have tried has failed. We have proven that we cannot rule ourselves successfully without God, and he sent Jesus to pay for our sins so that we will have many precedents set for all eternity to come.......meaning that we will never have to endure anything like this again.....and who would want to?
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
If I may take all of these occurrences in a sum total and explain why God allowed it all to take place.....



He did not set them up to fail.....he allowed them to make a choice, warning in advance what would happen if they disobeyed him. Its called free will and its part of being made in God's image and likeness.

Humans are not the only ones with free will and it needs to be stressed that the first rebel was not human.
A once perfect angel got a carried away with his own magnificence and wanted to be worshipped like his Creator.

Ezekiel 28:12-17 says of this once beautiful creature.......
"You are sealing up a pattern, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 In Eʹden, the garden of God, you proved to be. Every precious stone was your covering. . . .In the day of your being created they were made ready. 14 You are the anointed cherub that is covering, and I have set you. On the holy mountain of God you proved to be. In the midst of fiery stones you walked about. 15 You were faultless in your ways from the day of your being created until unrighteousness was found in you.

17 “Your heart became haughty because of your beauty You brought your wisdom to ruin on account of your beaming splendor."


This appointed guardian angel who was stationed in the Garden of Eden began to entertain wrong thinking and instead of dismissing these thoughts, he dwelt on them and turned them into action. (James 1:13-15)

There are millions of other magnificent angels in heaven according to the Bible, and all have free will. Whatever God's response was to this rebellion had to be such that another 'satan' could never take humanity, or his fellow angels down this track again.

"Telling" them the folly of disobedience wasn't enough....so God allowed them to 'reap what they had sown'.....to "demonstrate" in real terms what it meant to go against the will of God in order to implement their own will.......so God allowed the one they chose to obey, to rule over them. (1 John 5:19)

Romans 6:16...
"Do you not know that if you keep presenting yourselves to anyone as slaves to obey him, you are slaves of him because you obey him, either of sin with death in view or of obedience with righteousness in view?”

We choose who we will obey.



God told them how to have a wonderful life....and gave them everything they would need to live in paradise conditions forever, filling the earth with their children and extending the boundaries of their garden home until the whole earth resembled Eden......all they had to do was respect God's Sovereign right to set the reasonable limits of their freedom. When someone's free will is abused, the free will of others is compromised. God wanted to teach his children how to drive this wonderful gift, but disobedience turned it into a curse.



All these episodes involved acts of disobedience.....it wasn't like they didn't know better....or that God did not warn them about the consequences of their actions....but they chose to disobey the Creator and he demonstrated that ignoring their rightful Sovereign had consequences.

The one thing that we must not forget, is that God has the power and authority over life and death. What he takes away, he can restore, so there are no lives lost that cannot be returned in a promised resurrection. (John 5:28-29)

This is an object lesson of mammoth proportions, designed to test out every way that humans can think up, to guide their own lives without him. God knew that they would fail...but they had to find out the hard way.

We are in the throes of learning what it means to obey God and to use wisdom in exercising our free will......
King Solomon wrote...
"The conclusion of the matter, everything having been heard, is: Fear the true God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole obligation of man. 14 For the true God will judge every deed, including every hidden thing, as to whether it is good or bad."

It is not just a choice, but an obligation. God will judge between good and bad because humans can't always tell the difference. That is why he wanted to keep that determination to himself. It was never going to benefit them.



God built the house, but the devil used the humans to burn it down. They suffered painful burns in the process. God sent Jesus to repair the damage and to help rehabilitate them and get them back to what God purposed in the beginning.



The Bible explains it all very clearly. God always finishes what he starts (Isaiah 55:11).....and it always turns out right in the end.
In our case, whatever we have tried has failed. We have proven that we cannot rule ourselves successfully without God, and he sent Jesus to pay for our sins so that we will have many precedents set for all eternity to come.......meaning that we will never have to endure anything like this again.....and who would want to?
This is a very good written text :) very clear even for non JW
 

ajay0

Well-Known Member
But is that not similar to burning a house, setting it on fire and then rushing in to rescue the people inside? I don't understand.

As per eastern philosophy, there are three gunas or elements, that have always been and continue to be present in all things and beings in the world. They are sattva, rajas and tamas.


https://www.arhantayoga.org/blog/sattva-...mas-gunas/

The Gunas Sattva, Rajas and Tamas are present in all of Prakriti (nature), and in all things and beings.

Sattva is the quality of goodness, positivity, truth, serenity, balance, peacefulness, and virtuousness that is drawn towards righteousness and Jnana (knowledge).

Rajas is the quality of passion, activity, neither good nor bad and sometimes either, self-centeredness, egoistic, individualizing, driven, moving, dynamic.

Tamas is the quality of imbalance, disorder, chaos, anxiety, impure, destructive, delusion, negative, dull or inactive, apathy, inertia or lethargy, violent, vicious, ignorance, suffering and agony.



As per the Prajapita Brahmakumaris, nature must go through a period of phased degradation starting from sattva, rajas and finally to tamas.

Tamas is associated with inauspiciousness, breakdown of values, degradation of nature and human beings, destructive conficts and war.

Rajas is associated with egoism, activity, desires, passion amongst human beings.

Sattva is associated with pure consciousness, harmony, auspiciousness, happiness and bliss in human life.

The present kali yuga or Iron Age is predominant in tamas while the earlier Golden Ages, Silver Age were predominant in sattva, and the bronze age was predominant in rajas.

This is the reason why the present age seems to be anarchic and chaotic, due to the predominance of the inauspicious tamas.

The Prajapita Brahmakumaris state that prakriti or nature gets into an enraged state due to tamas and this accounts for the increasing number of natural disasters and conflicts at this point of time.

Through meditation, remembrance of God and cultivation of divine virtues, we can increase the auspicious sattva around us, and reduce the inauspicious tamas.

Hence it is not God, but the phased degradation of nature corresponding with decline in moral values in human beings that is the cause of evil.


You can find more information in this article by Anthony Strano, Director of Prajapita Brahmakumaris in Greece.


https://aboutbrahmakumaris.org/time-and-transformation/
 
If I may take all of these occurrences in a sum total and explain why God allowed it all to take place.....



He did not set them up to fail.....he allowed them to make a choice, warning in advance what would happen if they disobeyed him. Its called free will and its part of being made in God's image and likeness.

Humans are not the only ones with free will and it needs to be stressed that the first rebel was not human.
A once perfect angel got a carried away with his own magnificence and wanted to be worshipped like his Creator.

Ezekiel 28:12-17 says of this once beautiful creature.......
"You are sealing up a pattern, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 In Eʹden, the garden of God, you proved to be. Every precious stone was your covering. . . .In the day of your being created they were made ready. 14 You are the anointed cherub that is covering, and I have set you. On the holy mountain of God you proved to be. In the midst of fiery stones you walked about. 15 You were faultless in your ways from the day of your being created until unrighteousness was found in you.

17 “Your heart became haughty because of your beauty You brought your wisdom to ruin on account of your beaming splendor."


This appointed guardian angel who was stationed in the Garden of Eden began to entertain wrong thinking and instead of dismissing these thoughts, he dwelt on them and turned them into action. (James 1:13-15)

There are millions of other magnificent angels in heaven according to the Bible, and all have free will. Whatever God's response was to this rebellion had to be such that another 'satan' could never take humanity, or his fellow angels down this track again.

"Telling" them the folly of disobedience wasn't enough....so God allowed them to 'reap what they had sown'.....to "demonstrate" in real terms what it meant to go against the will of God in order to implement their own will.......so God allowed the one they chose to obey, to rule over them. (1 John 5:19)

Romans 6:16...
"Do you not know that if you keep presenting yourselves to anyone as slaves to obey him, you are slaves of him because you obey him, either of sin with death in view or of obedience with righteousness in view?”

We choose who we will obey.



God told them how to have a wonderful life....and gave them everything they would need to live in paradise conditions forever, filling the earth with their children and extending the boundaries of their garden home until the whole earth resembled Eden......all they had to do was respect God's Sovereign right to set the reasonable limits of their freedom. When someone's free will is abused, the free will of others is compromised. God wanted to teach his children how to drive this wonderful gift, but disobedience turned it into a curse.



All these episodes involved acts of disobedience.....it wasn't like they didn't know better....or that God did not warn them about the consequences of their actions....but they chose to disobey the Creator and he demonstrated that ignoring their rightful Sovereign had consequences.

The one thing that we must not forget, is that God has the power and authority over life and death. What he takes away, he can restore, so there are no lives lost that cannot be returned in a promised resurrection. (John 5:28-29)

This is an object lesson of mammoth proportions, designed to test out every way that humans can think up, to guide their own lives without him. God knew that they would fail...but they had to find out the hard way.

We are in the throes of learning what it means to obey God and to use wisdom in exercising our free will......
King Solomon wrote...
"The conclusion of the matter, everything having been heard, is: Fear the true God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole obligation of man. 14 For the true God will judge every deed, including every hidden thing, as to whether it is good or bad."

It is not just a choice, but an obligation. God will judge between good and bad because humans can't always tell the difference. That is why he wanted to keep that determination to himself. It was never going to benefit them.



God built the house, but the devil used the humans to burn it down. They suffered painful burns in the process. God sent Jesus to repair the damage and to help rehabilitate them and get them back to what God purposed in the beginning.



The Bible explains it all very clearly. God always finishes what he starts (Isaiah 55:11).....and it always turns out right in the end.
In our case, whatever we have tried has failed. We have proven that we cannot rule ourselves successfully without God, and he sent Jesus to pay for our sins so that we will have many precedents set for all eternity to come.......meaning that we will never have to endure anything like this again.....and who would want to?
yes that is what I am learning. In the spiritual world there is no such thing as allowing or preventing. It is not like the physical realm - our world. Actions has a totally different meaning in the spiritual world.
 

night912

Well-Known Member
Why did God allows Satan to tempt Adam and Eve knowing that they would fail? I mean everything was going so well! They loved God and God loved them. Then Why? Why? did God allows this temptation to happen, which ultimately caused the downfall of man? And then of course God send the flood that killed thousands of men, women and children. After that, well we know what happened to the Egyptians. How many plagues did they have to go through? five ? six? even more? And then of course the killing of the first born of Egypt? was all this necessary? infanticide is what it was. And then somewhere down the line - Hitler. Who killed how many Jews? 6 million I believe? why? what possible reason could there be for allowing 6 million people to be killed?
of course then there are the horrible things that happen day to day. But then we are told that Jesus came to die for our sins. But is that not similar to burning a house, setting it on fire and then rushing in to rescue the people inside? I don't understand.

That "god" that you described, is only the one that is relative to the abrahamic religion.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
" Why did God allows Satan to tempt Adam and Eve knowing that they would fail?"

I don't see in Quran that G-d allowed/gave permission to Satan, I understand, to tempt Adam and Eve.
We commit wrongs ourselves. Don't we, please? Don't we want free will, please? Then why blame G-d for wrongs done by us? Right ,please?

Regards
_________________
[20:116]
وَ لَقَدۡ عَہِدۡنَاۤ اِلٰۤی اٰدَمَ مِنۡ قَبۡلُ فَنَسِیَ وَ لَمۡ نَجِدۡ لَہٗ عَزۡمًا ﴿۱۱۶﴾٪
And verily, We had made a covenant with Adam beforehand, but he forgot, and We found in him no determination to disobey.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 20: TaHa
Satan has been created to spread evil, I understand. Right, please?

Regards
 

MonkeyFire

Well-Known Member
Temptation is knowledge of good and evil, that ancient dragon. Temptation is opposite of pacifism, and peace, the nature of Jesus.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Temptation is knowledge of good and evil, that ancient dragon. Temptation is opposite of pacifism, and peace, the nature of Jesus.
Sorry to disagree with one. The natural word "temptation", I understand, has got nothing to do with knowledge of good and evil:
"temptation (n.)
c. 1200, "act of enticing someone to sin," also "an experience or state of being tempted," from Old French temptacion (12c., Modern French tentation), from Latin temptationem (nominative temptatio), noun of action from past participle stem of temptare "to feel, try out" (see tempt). Meaning "that which tempts a person (to sin)" is from c. 1500."
temptation | Origin and meaning of temptation by Online Etymology Dictionary
And its synonyms/antonyms are also not near to as one has stated:
Synonyms of temptation | Thesaurus.com
Right, please?
There is no harm, therefore, if one likes to revise one's understanding of it. Right, please?

Regards
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
The Bible is a collection of mythical, metaphorical, and symbolic, religious stories intended to keep it's readers "grappling" with (contemplating, discussing, debating, and considering) their relationship to and with an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, and inexplicable God, that is beyond human comprehension. It was never intended to be read like a history textbook. And to do so is to miss the point and the meaning of the text.

I believe there is no mythology in the Bible. It is all the word of God.

A lot of the Bible is history. The book of Chronicles is not named that for nothing.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I believe there is no mythology in the Bible. It is all the word of God.
How can it be the Word of God? God did not write the Bible. Jesus did not write the Bible. Moses did not write the Bible.

So that means that men wrote the Bible; thus it cannot "literally" be the Word of God unless God spoke to those men, but God only spoke to Moses and Jesus and some other prophets but they did not write the Bible.

Some authoritative Baha'i positions on the Bible are as follows:

In studying the Bible Bahá'ís must bear two principles in mind. The first is that many passages in Sacred Scriptures are intended to be taken metaphorically, not literally, and some of the paradoxes and apparent contradictions which appear are intended to indicate this. The second is the fact that the text of the early Scriptures, such as the Bible, is not wholly authentic.
(28 May 1984 to an individual believer)


The Bahá'ís believe what is in the Bible to be true in substance. This does not mean that every word recorded in that Book is to be taken literally and treated as the authentic saying of a Prophet....

The Bahá'ís believe that God's Revelation is under His care and protection and that the essence, or essential elements, of what His Manifestations intended to convey has been recorded and preserved in Their Holy Books. However, as the sayings of the ancient Prophets were written down some time later, we cannot categorically state, as we do in the case of the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh, that the words and phrases attributed to Them are Their exact words
(9 August 1984 to an individual believer)


The Bible: Extracts on the Old and New Testaments
(From letters written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice)
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I don't. I drew that conclusion all by myself also, after reading the entire bible when I was 16-17 years old.
It was rather quickly apparent to me.




Is that why he placed the "serpent", the very embodiment of Evil, in that house knowing it would successfully trick the ignorant blank slate humans into doing what they weren't supposed to be doing? Is that why he put the "off limits" trees there, within reach?

This is like putting 2 4-year olds in a room with a loaded gun on the table , and then putting a psychopathic babysit in charge who tells the children that they can play with said gun. And then being surprised that they shoot themselves or eachother - and even blaming the kids for it.

There's nothing "perfect" about this. Instead, it's incredibly stupid and irresponsible. And completely the fault of the one who sets up that situation.




That doesn't mean he is not ultimately responsible.
If you create an extremely flammable home and then put kids in there and give them matches to play with (or add a psychopath who will convince the children to play with matches), then that is your responsability.

A mafia don is also ultimately responsible for all the crimes that are carried out by his underbosses under his watch. Even when he didn't directly order them.

When 3-year olds shoot someone with a gun that was simply laying around the house, it's also the owner of said gun that is held responsible - not the child.



It was never perfect. A perfect house, for starters, doesn't have the very embodiment of evil in their as a resident. Neither does it have unnecessary temptations.

And supposedly being all-knowing, he would have known what it would inevitably result in - as a direct result of his own design decisions.

He has only himself to blame.

I believe you must have missed the part about Satan initiating evil.

I believe there is no evidence that God placed the serpent in the Garden of Eden.

I believe God knew what would happen and it was most likely His intention from the beginning. Adam and Eve in the Garden were not going to propagate. For God to have a people there needs to be more people.

I believe the Adam and Eve situation was well after the state of perfection had gone away.

I believe there is no evidence to support that view.

I believe He should be honored for doing it that way but then I doubt you can see that through your perverse thinking.
 
Top