Is there a Theist equivalent to Deism?

[Karolina]

I realize this may be better asked in the Theism forum, and I plan to cross post. But whenever I have looked at Theism in the past, there doesn't seem to be a generic "Theism". It's automatically subdivided into some other organized religion, be it Judaism, Islam, Christianity, etc. I understand the basic premise of Deism is that God is not actively involved in creation, while Theism claims just the opposite. I would like to find the sort of Theism that is like Deism in its lack of group revelations, rituals, prescriptions, mythologies, etc, but nonetheless not deny that God does care and is reachable by humanity, though the details of how that is done should be open to individual interpretation.

 

[Eddi]

You could always make one up yourself

 

[Rival]

Sounds like you're already there

 

[Vinayaka]

Some versions of Hinduism are close. Brahman can be seen as in inactive God. Ask Aupmanyav, who believes in Brahman, but not God.

In my sect/sampradaya version of Hinduism, we see it as both, and call it monistic theism. We see god as having 3 perfections, simultaneously, and interwoven. The first perfection is the Causal, the Ultimate, unmanifest reality, beyond time, space , and form, and totally inactive. That perfection would correspond to Deism, I believe, although I could be wrong, often am. The second perfection is consciousness, or energy that flows though all form, the substratum, it is manifest, emanated from the first perfection, but sort of has form, and sort of doesn't.
The third perfection is the first soul, or Primal Soul, Nataraja, dancer, and he acts, is constantly moving, and cares about His creation a ton. Still, He's no puppeteer.

This might help, I have no idea.

 

[SeekerOnThePath]

I don't think I'll ever understand Deism, it seems to presuppose an indifferent anthropomorphic deity which seems ridiculous (both aspects, indifferent and anthropomorphic).

 

[shunyadragon]

I realize this may be better asked in the Theism forum, and I plan to cross post. But whenever I have looked at Theism in the past, there doesn't seem to be a generic "Theism". It's automatically subdivided into some other organized religion, be it Judaism, Islam, Christianity, etc. I understand the basic premise of Deism is that God is not actively involved in creation, while Theism claims just the opposite. I would like to find the sort of Theism that is like Deism in its lack of group revelations, rituals, prescriptions, mythologies, etc, but nonetheless not deny that God does care and is reachable by humanity, though the details of how that is done should be open to individual interpretation.

Deist Christians were common in the 1700's and 1800's as some of the founders of the United States. Deist Christians still exist and consider themselves on of the many diverse believers in Unitarian Universalism.

 

[Karolina]

Deist Christians were common in the 1700's and 1800's as some of the founders of the United States. Deist Christians still exist and consider themselves on of the many diverse believers in Unitarian Universalism.

Ah yes. It seems that UU is where it always comes back to for me, and yet I do not feel comfortable in UU churches since it is actually too liberal theologically for me, what with atheists considered UU and all that. It begs the question, how are we here to worship God if some of us actively deny God's existence? At any rate, it makes sense as others have mentioned that there is no group for me to join, which I have made my peace with. I was just looking for the right terminology now, and I think that, too, has been pointed out as not being some elusive term that I haven't yet come across in decades of searching. I'm just a generic Monotheist, I guess. With no church home to go to, per se. And that's the reality that is my starting point and no sense denying it or ignoring it, as I have been doing for years.

 

[Starlight]

I'm just curious. Do you not want to be catholic christian anymore?

 

[Starlight]

Ah yes. It seems that UU is where it always comes back to for me, and yet I do not feel comfortable in UU churches since it is actually too liberal theologically for me, what with atheists considered UU and all that. It begs the question, how are we here to worship God if some of us actively deny God's existence? At any rate, it makes sense as others have mentioned that there is no group for me to join, which I have made my peace with. I was just looking for the right terminology now, and I think that, too, has been pointed out as not being some elusive term that I haven't yet come across in decades of searching. I'm just a generic Monotheist, I guess. With no church home to go to, per se. And that's the reality that is my starting point and no sense denying it or ignoring it, as I have been doing for years.

I think quakers is 100000% better for you than UU..

 

[Starlight]

what do you think about the trinity?

 

[shunyadragon]

Ah yes. It seems that UU is where it always comes back to for me, and yet I do not feel comfortable in UU churches since it is actually too liberal theologically for me, what with atheists considered UU and all that. It begs the question, how are we here to worship God if some of us actively deny God's existence? At any rate, it makes sense as others have mentioned that there is no group for me to join, which I have made my peace with. I was just looking for the right terminology now, and I think that, too, has been pointed out as not being some elusive term that I haven't yet come across in decades of searching. I'm just a generic Monotheist, I guess. With no church home to go to, per se. And that's the reality that is my starting point and no sense denying it or ignoring it, as I have been doing for years.

It is an egocentric ideal to seek the shoes that fit. The universal shoe fits no one. The UU actually is not as atheistic as people think, though yes some atheists do belong to UU. UU claims to allow the diversity of all beliefs, but this is not likely the case for strong scriptural traditional theists, though they do include a wide rand of non-traditional beliefs. Recently large numbers of UU have attracted believers in more pagan primal beliefs that build yurts next to UU houses of worship. I do not endorse UU as church, religion or whatever, but I have been close to UU over the years since my teens.

Monotheists and Deist of various ilk do currently belong to the UU church.

The positive aspect of UU they do recognize the potential of a diversity of beliefs.

 

[Karolina]

It is an egocentric ideal to seek the shoes that fit. The universal shoe fits no one. The UU actually is not as atheistic as people think, though yes some atheists do belong to UU. UU claims to allow the diversity of all beliefs, but this is not likely the case for strong scriptural traditional theists, though they do include a wide rand of non-traditional beliefs. Recently large numbers of UU have attracted believers in more pagan primal beliefs that build yurts next to UU houses of worship. I do not endorse UU as church, religion or whatever, but I have been close to UU over the years since my teens.

Monotheists and Deist of various ilk do currently belong to the UU church.

The positive aspect of UU they do recognize the potential of a diversity of beliefs.

Without splitting hairs, I've attended UU services and found them uninspiring. What's more, the majority of UUs seem to be socially liberal, and I have undergone a conversion of my socio-political views this year and consider myself conservative. I would not feel comfortable calling UUs "my tribe".

 

[shunyadragon]

Without splitting hairs, I've attended UU services and found them uninspiring. What's more, the majority of UUs seem to be socially liberal, and I have undergone a conversion of my socio-political views this year and consider myself conservative. I would not feel comfortable calling UUs "my tribe".

OK, Not my tribe so to speak, and I am not recommending UU and if your conservative than likely bad choice. I am a Baha'i which tend to a range of conservative to liberal. I was raised a Moderate Republican with my uncle a Congressman for many years, but there is no place for me in the Republican Party today the extremism turns me off big time.

In my experience since belief is an individual commitment in the UU the services do not tend to appeal to the emotional inspiring engagement Christian services do. Recognizing the fallible human diversity of beliefs is a big plus for UU.

I have been close to Buddhism, but not a Buddhist for many years, which is not either conservative nor liberal by its nature. Choices tend to be an individual matter. Buddhism ranges from atheist/agnostic to Deist and even personal theism depending on the type of Buddhism, and personal preferences.

 

[Karolina]

I'm just curious. Do you not want to be catholic christian anymore?

It's not a matter of wanting. I have tried very hard for several years to conform my beliefs and ways of thinking to the Catholic tradition. It is very familiar to me and very dear to me on many levels. I simply do not believe it though, now that I have given myself permission to think freely, without fear of the wrath of God. I do not necessarily want to "leave" the fellowship of the church, as I see the benefit of keeping our family in a place of worship for the reinforcement of our moral values and access to communal spirituality, even if we disagree on the details.

I think quakers is 100000% better for you than UU..

Yes, I went through two different phases where I worshipped with Quakers. Ultimately, we were a much better match in theory than in practice. In my area, there are pretty much only Liberal Quakers, so there was almost no ritual outside of the waiting worship, and again, with the diversity of belief, it seemed Quakers were more interested in social change than worship of God, which is fine and a noble pursuit in itself, but I craved communal worship and as I mentioned above in my other reply, I underwent a socio-political conversion this year, and now consider myself conservative in that regard, while liberal Quakers are, well, liberal

what do you think about the trinity?

Honestly, I think it's muddling the water. Trying to have it both ways, maintain a belief in monotheism while at the same time attributing divine status to Jesus. I have claimed in my attempts to conform to the beliefs of Christianity that because God is beyond human understanding, the Trinity is the concept that comes closest to describing God. But I now see that falls under the category of finding whatever one is looking for. The Trinity always stood in the way of my wanting to abide by the First Commandment. It's what has pushed me into researching Judaism, Islam, Deism, Bahai and even Zoroastrian faiths, where God stays clearly God. As I've thought about it, pantheism or panentheism seem to be saying similar things to the Trinity, only the term seems more honest to me somehow. I guess if God can and would want to merge in some way with God's own creation, I don't see why God would do so only with the historic person of Jesus. What's more, it seems the entire Christian faith is based on not so much faith in God as in faith in people in positions of religious authority that came before us. It's a lot of heresay. Anyway, that's probably more detail that you were looking for with your question

 

[Starlight]

OK, Not my tribe so to speak, and I am not recommending UU and if your conservative than likely bad choice. I am a Baha'i which tend to a range of conservative to liberal. I was raised a Moderate Republican with my uncle a Congressman for many years, but there is no place for me in the Republican Party today the extremism turns me off big time.

I have been close to Buddhism, but not a Buddhist for many years, which is not either conservative nor liberal by its nature. Choices tend to be an individual matter.

It seems like UU is more a political party than a religion....thats really bad I think..

 

[Karolina]

OK, Not my tribe so to speak, and I am not recommending UU and if your conservative than likely bad choice. I am a Baha'i which tend to a range of conservative to liberal. I was raised a Moderate Republican with my uncle a Congressman for many years, but there is no place for me in the Republican Party today the extremism turns me off big time.

I have been close to Buddhism, but not a Buddhist for many years, which is not either conservative nor liberal by its nature. Choices tend to be an individual matter.

I wouldn't call myself a Republican either. Just generically conservative, lol.

I have considered Buddhism on many occasions, but could never reconcile the complete lack of focus on a Creator God on the one hand, and the many deities of the folk versions of Buddhism on the other hand.

I'm actually quite interested in Taoism right now. I'm just choosing to equate the Tao with my understanding of God.

 

[Starlight]

There exist quakers groups who is conservative

 

[shunyadragon]

I wouldn't call myself a Republican either. Just generically conservative, lol.

I have considered Buddhism on many occasions, but could never reconcile the complete lack of focus on a Creator God on the one hand, and the many deities of the folk versions of Buddhism on the other hand.

I'm actually quite interested in Taoism right now. I'm just choosing to equate the Tao with my understanding of God.

My relationship with Taoism is through Arts of the Way (Martial Arts) in China. Taoism is dominately Deist to agnostic and some believe atheist, with an undefinable 'Source.'

 

[shunyadragon]

It seems like UU is more a political party than a religion....thats really bad I think..

Actually no, the UU is too disorganized with too many antiestablishment libertarians. Evangelical Christianity is the biggest political movement pushing for theocracy

 

[Karolina]

There exist quakers groups who is conservative

I know, but not anywhere near where I live. I've checked!