Is there a Theist equivalent to Deism?

[Karolina]

My relationship with Taoism is through Arts of the Way (Martial Arts) in China. Taoism is dominately Deist to agnostic and some believe atheist, with an undefinable 'Source.'

And see, I've always tried to live "by the rules" and so, if I'm going to call myself something, ie. if I'm going to associate with an established religion, I wanted to be sure I actually fit the description of a believer in said religion. In the past, this has pushed me away from both the religion of my upbringing, and other spiritual philosophies like Taoism. But at this point, I'm tired. I'm tired of being told what I can and cannot call myself, what I can and cannot believe, what I can and cannot do and call it worship. Generic Monotheist it is.

 

[ChieftheCef]

I don't think I'll ever understand Deism, it seems to presuppose an indifferent anthropomorphic deity which seems ridiculous (both aspects, indifferent and anthropomorphic).

I believe in an active and nonanthropomorphic god. I call her Nature.

 

[shunyadragon]

I think quakers is 100000% better for you than UU..

Quakers have their own problems split between more conservative/liberal Theists and a more liberal mix like UU. The lack of a firm position.

 

[shunyadragon]

I don't think I'll ever understand Deism, it seems to presuppose an indifferent anthropomorphic deity which seems ridiculous (both aspects, indifferent and anthropomorphic).

Deism is in part the result of the ancient tribal Biblical hands-on anthropomorphic God or Gods. that has increasing problems in the Contemporary world where science and history make the ancient belief irrational and illogical. Actually, many Deists believe in the Creator God, but a more natural God is not personally involved.

 

[ChieftheCef]

I realize this may be better asked in the Theism forum, and I plan to cross post. But whenever I have looked at Theism in the past, there doesn't seem to be a generic "Theism". It's automatically subdivided into some other organized religion, be it Judaism, Islam, Christianity, etc. I understand the basic premise of Deism is that God is not actively involved in creation, while Theism claims just the opposite. I would like to find the sort of Theism that is like Deism in its lack of group revelations, rituals, prescriptions, mythologies, etc, but nonetheless not deny that God does care and is reachable by humanity, though the details of how that is done should be open to individual interpretation.

You can be a theist, I'd just let people know you're referring to lowercase actual god.

 

[shunyadragon]

I realize this may be better asked in the Theism forum, and I plan to cross post. But whenever I have looked at Theism in the past, there doesn't seem to be a generic "Theism". It's automatically subdivided into some other organized religion, be it Judaism, Islam, Christianity, etc. I understand the basic premise of Deism is that God is not actively involved in creation, while Theism claims just the opposite. I would like to find the sort of Theism that is like Deism in its lack of group revelations, rituals, prescriptions, mythologies, etc, but nonetheless not deny that God does care and is reachable by humanity, though the details of how that is done should be open to individual interpretation.

The Baha'i Faith comes closest as an organized Theist religion. It understands ancient religions as Revelations from God but from the perspective of the ancient cultures. Therefore they see the world through their own story which indeed contains mythology. Revelation is indeed a progressive process of the maturing of the spiritual nature of humanity.

The Baha'i God is involved, but not the hands own anthropomorphic God of ancient cultures. God is unknowable and undefinable from the human perspective. We may know God through attributes of God in nature and the spiritual qualities and teachings through Revelation

The principles do reflect a more contemporary context that considers the progressive spiritual education of the whole history of humanity and contemporary values and relationships.

See The Baháʼí Faith - Home

 

[Karolina]

The Baha'i Faith comes closest as an organized Theist religion. It understands ancient religions as Revelations from God but from the perspective of the ancient cultures. Therefore they see the world through their own story which indeed contains mythology. Revelation is indeed a progressive process of the maturing of the spiritual nature of humanity.

The Baha'i God is involved, but not the hands own anthropomorphic God of ancient cultures. God is unknowable and undefinable from the human perspective. We may know God through attributes of God in nature and the spiritual qualities and teachings through Revelation

The principles do reflect a more contemporary context that considers the progressive spiritual education of the whole history of humanity and contemporary values and relationships.

See The Baháʼí Faith - Home

Thank you. I've looked into Bahai in the past, but I may be in a better place now to revisit it. Thanks for the link, I'll be sure to look into it.

 

[ChieftheCef]

I redefine Nothing as God, the Animating Force, and the Suprme God all at once. That does not mean I do not have a generally (with speculation) scientific world view.

Nothingness, Space-time, has echoes of god in it. It creates the world with the Big Bang, and forms it with Gravity and the rest of Nature. Nothing is the scientific Maker. Is he conscious? I don't know. If Nothing really is god perhaps he is also consciousness as many religions say.

I don't believe in any Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad, Krishna, Lao Zi, Mani, Gilgamemesh or Moses, or believe most of what they said. I do find some things I agree with within them, but not in totality. I do not follow any religion, I just take what I carefully reason is true from it.

 

[LuisDantas]

Never occurred to me that someone might perceive deism as an opposite to theism.

To the best of my understanding, the OP's stance would be very close to what is often meant by "spiritual but not religious", although I will readily grant that it is not a very clear label for anyone to use.

Much, I suppose, will depend on what @Karolina understands to be proper and desirable in the way she deals with her conception of god.

My reading of the OP is that it involves an individual relationship with the Divine that includes some form of communion with the Divine but is not really interested in collective doctrines and scriptures.

The best fit seems to me to be Paganism, but I am not entirely certain that it would not be Pantheism or Panentheism instead.

 

[ChieftheCef]

Never occurred to me that someone might perceive deism as an opposite to theism.

To the best of my understanding, the OP's stance would be very close to what is often meant by "spiritual but not religious", although I will readily grant that it is not a very clear label for anyone to use.

Why not? That just divides us from amongst ourselves..

 

[LuisDantas]

Why not? That just divides us from amongst ourselves..

It is just not readily apparent what would count as spirituality, nor as religion, for any given person at any given moment.

 

[ChieftheCef]

It is just not readily apparent what would count as spirituality, nor as religion, for any given person at any given moment.

It's not to you? It's really not hard. Religion is men talking about god, buddhism seems to me more a philosophy when not the mahayana variety. If there is something spiritual, like oneness it is god.

Spirituality is individuals talking about god, in a more each to his own sense. That may include any of the knowledge, and even some things that may not be currently known, that they know. Religion is the centralization of power around god. It's not actively seeking to know god, it already believes it does.

 

[LuisDantas]

It's not to you? It's really not hard. Religion is men talking about god, buddhism seems to me more a philosophy when not the mahayana variety. If there is something spiritual, like oneness it is god.

Spirituality is individuals talking about god, in a more each to his own sense. That may include any of the knowledge, and even some things that may not be currently known, that they know. Religion is the centralization of power around god. It's not actively seeking to know god, it already believes it does.

No, itnis not. It is quite the arbitrary call and ought to be acknowledged as such.

Putting "god" into it settles the vagueness and arbitrarity into the ideas, instead of helping any.

 

[shunyadragon]

Ah yes. It seems that UU is where it always comes back to for me, and yet I do not feel comfortable in UU churches since it is actually too liberal theologically for me, what with atheists considered UU and all that. It begs the question, how are we here to worship God if some of us actively deny God's existence? At any rate, it makes sense as others have mentioned that there is no group for me to join, which I have made my peace with. I was just looking for the right terminology now, and I think that, too, has been pointed out as not being some elusive term that I haven't yet come across in decades of searching. I'm just a generic Monotheist, I guess. With no church home to go to, per se. And that's the reality that is my starting point and no sense denying it or ignoring it, as I have been doing for years.

The objection to Theism by the Deists of the 18th century was the Theist hands on anthropomorphic God of the Bible defined Christianity in that time. To some Deism was a hedge, because atheism was illegal in the USA at that time. Nonetheless there were many 18th century atheists of note like: Category:19th-century atheists - Wikipedia

In the 19th century there was a range of beliefs that arose out of the 'Enlightenment Age. The line between Deism and Atheism is a little fuzzy, because in Both there is no apparent Theistic hands on miracle working God. Atheists range in disbelief. from simply there is no reason to believe in Theistic Gods to completer rejection of the possibility of Gods.

Allowing a diversity of believers and non-believers is admirable of Unitarian Universalism.