Is there an obligation for a faith believer

[stvdv]

From discussion with some very few non believers of religion or spiritual practice, it seems like they see it as an obligation for the faith believers to explain in details "Why, How and in what way" the faith believers come to their personal belief.

But say its an obligation to explain to anyone who just going to refuse the answer as wishful thinking, falacy, or other negative intepretations done by the non believer.

The way a believer become more and more firm in their belief is to practice the teaching for years.

So non believers, if you want the real answers from religious scripture, you better start practicing, because there are no short cuts to gain wisdom from scriptures, one has to practice it every day to gain wisdom and deeper understanding.

If a faith believer just give you an answer, you yourself has not gained anything at all.

Very true, as simple a fact as that

I have been telling this since I came here

Would be easy, to get the big Truth by others explaining it to you. But there is no challenge in that, so I find this one of the Great marvels in God's Creation

 

[Spirit of Light]

This is not the attitude of someone who cares whether their beliefs are true.

I have faith, do not need physical evidence

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I have faith, do not need physical evidence

Again: this is not the attitude of someone who cares whether their beliefs are true.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Again: this is not the attitude of someone who cares whether their beliefs are true.

I have no reason to explain to others, I believe the way I do because of many years seeking answers

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I have no reason to explain to others, I believe the way I do because of many years seeking answers

Your last two posts seemed to me like you were talking about your own personal standard, not about explaining yourself to others.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Your last two posts seemed to me like you were talking about your own personal standard, not about explaining yourself to others.

My answers can be different according to whom i speaking to, because no two people understand the same way.

I have my personal understanding and faith, thats enough for me.

 

[Sirona]

From discussion with some very few non believers of religion or spiritual practice, it seems like they see it as an obligation for the faith believers to explain in details "Why, How and in what way" the faith believers come to their personal belief.

Of course there is no obligation, but it could be an interesting exercise, to learn about oneself, to gain true insight, to learn about the individual reasons why a person chose a certain faith.

But say its an obligation to explain to anyone who just going to refuse the answer as wishful thinking, falacy, or other negative intepretations done by the non believer.

Well, just accept the fact that some people do not have the same belief as oneself. Some people just don't like mayonnaise. They do not do it to hurt you and you won't convince them by stating a thousand times that mayonnaise is your favorite food and you just can't do without it.

The way a believer become more and more firm in their belief is to practice the teaching for years.

1. One may practice stuff for a lifetime and still do it wrongly. 2. People who turn to proselityzing religions may happen to reject their entire past, thinking they had been wrong all the time.

So non believers, if you want the real answers from religious scripture, you better start practicing, because there are no short cuts to gain wisdom from scriptures, one has to practice it every day to gain wisdom and deeper understanding.

Non-believers may read scriptures for all kinds of reasons, starting out with mere curiosity. Academic studying is usually done with the intent of learning / perfecting the ability of judging whether something is "good or bad". Non-academic study of scriptures may also be some kind of "meditation".

If a faith believer just give you an answer, you yourself has not gained anything at all.

Well, from the reply, one often can tell on the spot which religion a person has, whether they tend to be fundamentalists or moderate etc. I don't think this information is "nothing at all".

 

[Psalm23]

From discussion with some very few non believers of religion or spiritual practice, it seems like they see it as an obligation for the faith believers to explain in details "Why, How and in what way" the faith believers come to their personal belief.

But say its an obligation to explain to anyone who just going to refuse the answer as wishful thinking, falacy, or other negative intepretations done by the non believer.

The way a believer become more and more firm in their belief is to practice the teaching for years.

So non believers, if you want the real answers from religious scripture, you better start practicing, because there are no short cuts to gain wisdom from scriptures, one has to practice it every day to gain wisdom and deeper understanding.

If a faith believer just give you an answer, you yourself has not gained anything at all.

In my opinion, there isn't an obligation to answer why one believes something . There isn't an obligation to answer why one doesn't believe something either. We all can choose whether or not to answer a particular question.

 

[Spirit of Light]

In my opinion, there isn't an obligation to answer why one believes something . There isn't an obligation to answer why one doesn't believe something either. We all can choose whether or not to answer a particular question.

I wish everyone could understand that unfortunatly that is not the case in RF

 

[Valjean]

First of all, I have no need to prove my belief to others, they are free to believe whatever they do or dont.

Spiritual wisdom is not about this world in physical sense Spiritual wisdom is the understanding of the realm where God is.

My problem with this is: 1. that this claim cannot be communicated, but must be grokked through experience; and: 2. Those claiming familiarity with this spiritual wisdom do not describe or appear to be experiencing the same thing.

Some might describe God's abode as a marble mansion with gardens, pools, and choirs of angels. Other's describe a mud hut, or claim God is homeless. Are these wise people experiencing the same thing? Are they acquiring the same wisdom?

 

[Spirit of Light]

My problem with this is: 1. that this claim cannot be communicated, but must be grokked through experience; and: 2. Those claiming familiarity with this spiritual wisdom do not describe or appear to be experiencing the same thing.

Some might describe God's abode as a marble mansion with gardens, pools, and choirs of angels. Other's describe a mud hut, or claim God is homeless. Are these wise people experiencing the same thing? Are they acquiring the same wisdom?

Yes,but on different wisdom levels, the more pure wisdom they realize, the more correct it will be what they see/understand. Only God knows the highest truth possible

 

[Nimos]

I have not much wisdom as of now, so @Nimos may be wiser than my self

I don't think you understood what I meant

It wasn't a literal question about who knew most, but whether how one would demonstrate it.

For instance a math teacher can demonstrate their knowledge, by either showing that they can do math to a high degree or they can hand you a educational certificate that shows that they have a degree in math which is international accepted. Doesn't necessarily mean that this person is the best at math, but at least they can say that they have knowledge of it.

If we wanted to know whether this person were better at math than someone else, we could throw them a test, because we can hold it up against something.

But a person claiming to have spiritual or divine knowledge, what would you measure it against? How do you demonstrate that your knowledge of the teaching is better than mine or vice versa?

 

[Spirit of Light]

I don't think you understood what I meant

It wasn't a literal question about who knew most, but whether how one would demonstrate it.

For instance a math teacher can demonstrate their knowledge, by either showing that they can do math to a high degree or they can hand you a educational certificate that shows that they have a degree in math which is international accepted. Doesn't necessarily mean that this person is the best at math, but at least they can say that they have knowledge of it.

If we wanted to know whether this person were better at math than someone else, we could throw them a test, because we can hold it up against something.

But a person claiming to have spiritual or divine knowledge, what would you measure it against? How do you demonstrate that your knowledge of the teaching is better than mine or vice versa?

You dont measure spiritual wisdom against others, only toward ones own past.

 

[Valjean]

Faith in the teaching, and that the teaching can lead to the awakening of the practitioners true self. (Not the body or ego)

Still, faith as pre-belief.

In my tradition pre-acceptance is provisional, and one can choose from a Smörgåsbord of different beliefs and practices, with everyone reaching consensus in the end.
In the Western traditions consensus never seems to be achieved, yet wisdom is claimed.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Still, faith as pre-belief.

In my tradition pre-acceptance is provisional, and one can choose from a Smörgåsbord of different beliefs and practices, with everyone reaching consensus in the end.
In the Western traditions consensus never seems to be achieved, yet wisdom is claimed.

Faith get stronger during practice, it is not a stationary view or opinion

 

[Valjean]

mikkel_the_dane said: ↑
As I understand it, @Seeker of White Light believes in individually finding God in an individual sense. Thus there is no one absolute objective truth. There is an objective absolute God in his belief system, but that is faith and all our individual ways are not absolute or objective.

You hit the nail on the head..

I believe there is one absolute, objective truth, which can be experienced, but the steps to achieving this are personal and subjective.

Don't mistake the subjective steps for wisdom, or for the unified experience at the top of the stair. They're all illusions.

 

[Valjean]

In my opinion, there isn't an obligation to answer why one believes something . There isn't an obligation to answer why one doesn't believe something either. We all can choose whether or not to answer a particular question.

True -- only a few of us are interested in exploring belief and epistemology by posting our thoughts publicly, on RF.

 

[Valjean]

Faith get stronger during practice, it is not a stationary view or opinion

True. Repeat the same thing often enough and it becomes effortless and seems natural, even when it's mere muscle-memory.

 

[Valjean]

I have no reason to explain to others, I believe the way I do because of many years seeking answers

So why bother to air your belief/practice/wisdom on a public discussion forum, if you don't want it questioned or explored?

 

[Spirit of Light]

So why bother to air your belief/practice/wisdom on a public discussion forum, if you don't want it questioned or explored?

To have faith in God is to make a practical commitment—the kind involved in trusting God, or, trusting in God. (The root meaning of the Greek pistis, 'faith', is 'trust'.) This, then, is a fiducial model —a model of faith as trust, understood not simply as an affective state of confidence, but as an action.