prometheus11
Well-Known Member
You got it, Cambridge.
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Is there any religious argument that actually stands when scrutinized with reason?
- Thread starter cambridge79
- Start date
That is called a joke.
Good, then perhaps you could enlighten me as to the point you were making by saying philosophy comes from the mind?
Merely and observation. I've found it is the same type of person who fights biology to say evolution didn't happen and history to say Jesus didn't exist. I will of course greatly apologize if I misread your statement.
Simplistic. How does your "irrational" hypothesis account for biological/psychological origins of belief?
prometheus11
Well-Known Member
Philosophy is the product of human minds categorizing concepts. They haven't any extra authority just because they're philosophies.
I guess I don't classify people the way you do?
They have authority or validity through having a stable ground. For having rational and logically compelling arguments. Atheistic morality simply lacks the latter. Any defense of or reason for your morality can equally provide for any other morality under the sun with equal force.
Psychologist, recognizing and classifying trends in thought is a rather large part of my discipline.
prometheus11
Well-Known Member
Atheistic morality comes from the minds of humans just like philosophies do. You are welcome to attempt to prove something or other about it, but it's not a philosophy, it merely shares the same origin: the minds of humans.
I'm not defending anyone's morality, and atheism isn't a worldview that provides a morality, naturalism might, though.
Sorry for the mistake. (Mine)
I should have said I don't presume about others. Instead, I listen and converse with each person individually on the terms within our evolving social contract. I also don't discriminate against Mexicans just because many of them are illegal aliens.[/quote]
cambridge79
Active Member
i think we hate incertanty. So when we don't have an answer and we can't come up with an answer we simply make up that answer.
we also hate being powerless. So we make up gods in order to have the illusion to be able to influence things we have no control upon.
Men in the past were totally in the hand of nature: if hunt was good, crops were good, weather was good, health was good they were good. They had no direct control over any that.
So they made up gods to appease in order to have the illusion to be able to control what they couldn't control.
When all your life depends on that, you can wait for example for the Nile to flood the lands knowing it may or may not happen for reasons you can't control or understand. or you can sacrifice a goat to a god, asking him to make the nile flood the valley. If the nile floods the god is appeased, if the nile doesn't flood the god is angry and you have to do something to make him happy. this way you have reasons, explanations and you know what you are supposed to do when things go wrong.
that was the first seed of religion. From that on, is just culture and traditions adding on it and making it more complex
think for example at people when they throw dices at the casino: once the dice are thrown they have no more control whatsoever. Yet they cross their fingers ( rituals ), say magic words ( prayers ), hold a lucky token ( symbols ) and so on because it helps them deal with the stress of the situation. very same principle.
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So you don't account for the biological origins of belief at all. As I said, simplistic.
Yes it is, any system of morality is informed by a moral philosophy.
I always try to include an apology incase the presumption is wrong. As I did, I do apologize if you aren't a Jesus-myther.
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cambridge79
Active Member
depends what you assume by biological origin. I personally think it's a sideproduct of the way our brain evolved and became more complex. For example the idea of the soul must be somehow a sideproduct of consciusness. it's not by chance that according to biblical mythology "god created man in his own image"
and i think evolution of the brain went hand by hand with evolution of society. For example there are huge areas of the brian related to language. Those areas must have evolved side by side with the evolution of language. They weren't there same as they are now when we didn't use language.
outhouse
Atheistically
There is another way?
I'm not assuming anything, I'm talking about the fact that our brain is hardwired to produce religious/spiritual/transcendental experiences.
I find it far more likely, especially given our biology, that our first religions were experiential rather than explanatory.
Of course, I would suggest more familiarity with the tradition of moral philosophy.
Deontological ethics for instance all rest on metaphysical realities.
prometheus11
Well-Known Member
I don't make claims about whether Jesus existed or not.
Atheism is neither a philosophy nor a "system of morality." Basically, it's like not stamp collecting.
outhouse
Atheistically
Are not these ontology based arguments more so then a morals based from materialism ?
Well of course. You questioned whether there were any other way to look at morality than materialistically.
outhouse
Atheistically
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Is there any religious argument that actually stands when scrutinized with reason?
Well!
Is there any atheistic/agnostic/skeptic argument that actually stands when scrutinised with wisdom? Please
Regards
Well!
Is there any atheistic/agnostic/skeptic argument that actually stands when scrutinised with wisdom? Please
Regards
cambridge79
Active Member
define wisdom.
The dictionary definition would exclude any religion as a source of wisdom immediately.
prometheus11
Well-Known Member
Yes.
There is no evidence for God. Although the universe is often claimed as evidence for God, the universe appears cold and uncaring as if there were no God.
Thus, we might reasonably believe in a cold, uncaring, undetectable God, or we can apply Occum's razor and eliminate the undetectable element (God) and simply not believe in a God since the universe can be detected and is cold and uncaring anyway.