Is there any religious argument that actually stands when scrutinized with reason?

[outhouse]

Like with Atheism and Theism, Since there is no more evidence for Atheism than there is for Theism.

Atheism does not require evidence. We only refuse your mythology in light of you not being able to substantiate your faith.

 

[outhouse]

Seems like you werein so much of a hurry to score a cheap point

She ended up with negative points, being we don't have to prove any evidence.

 

[Thana]

Atheism does not require evidence. We only refuse your mythology in light of you not being able to substantiate your faith.

But that is itself a claim no? That say, Christianity is wrong/Islam/Hinduism etc.

 

[Augustus]

Maybe humanism, but not Marxism or nationalism, as those are socio-economic philosophies, not religions.

You keep misrepresenting my point.

ALL ideologies, religious or otherwise are based on subjective transcendental values. Humanist, Christian or Marxist, ALL buy into some form of subjective mythology.

Apart from the supernatural divine being they all rely on similar fictions.

Churchill's or De Gaul's nationalism was profoundly 'religious' in nature.

 

[Riverwolf]

Um...
How do they evidence the existence of a deity?
Or that a specific religious belief system is the "one true way"?

Uh... does not apply?

In a polytheist paradigm, the very idea of "one true way" doesn't have any meaning. And I'm pretty sure Sun and Earth, both Goddesses, very much exist.

 

[1AOA1]

Medicine, agriculture, electricity, biology, sociology, psychology, nutrition, lasers, microprocessors, mass production, communication technology, sanitation and photographic imaging.

There you go. A small list of tangible benefits that have come from science that have vastly improved global understanding, happiness, storytelling and community, as well as saved and improved countless lives.

Now, do you have any actual evidence for the benefits of religion?

And yet, if someone were in an accident, how would materialism determine that its severity was something besides being adjusted to the medical care that would be made available so that the outcome would meet a specific plan?

 

[Thana]

How do you figure?

Also, what do you mean by "Atheism" (with a capital A for some reason) that it would be a discrete thing that would have evidence for it? Atheism is just the condition a person is in if they haven't been convinced of theism. If atheism makes any claims (strong atheism, that is - weak atheism makes no claims at all), it would be that theists haven't made their case.

If whatever you mean by "Atheism" is just as supported by evidence (or not) as theism, then theism hasn't made its case and the actual (strong) atheists are correct.

... and this is even before we consider how a lack of evidence for god creates logical problems for theism.


Seems like you werein so much of a hurry to score a cheap point that you didn't think things through.

I don't keep points, I don't care for 'wins' I just don't enjoy arrogance.

Jesus.. it's like why did anyone even bother coming up with the term Agnostic since the active and strong disbelief in any God concept apparently doesn't exist.

 

[outhouse]

But that is itself a claim no?

No. People can be atheist without a conscious rejection of mythology.

Most atheist do reject mythology. Evidence is not required.

Evidence is not required to be a theist either.

That say, Christianity is wrong/Islam/Hinduism etc

Rejection is not a declaration of wrong doing.

 

[jonathan180iq]

By the way did you know that in the 1930's Hitlers scientists went to the near and far east and studied ancient Eastern and Sanskrit writings. From them they learned how to build the atom bomb and "flying saucers". Thus knowledge of the atom bomb came from a religious source!

Take a good look at the Old and New Testaments, view it from a different point of view, and see how many technological things you can find.

Ummm, what? You think the Nazis invented the atom bomb by reading ancient sanskrit texts?

I believe you've been watching too many Ancient Aliens episodes.

 

[MMarcoe]

That is what I'm saying. Some religions do teach these things. And, some use religions as a tool to teach these things. In both cases, religion, at least in part, causes these things.

Examples, please?

 

[jonathan180iq]

Like with Atheism and Theism, Since there is no more evidence for Atheism than there is for Theism.

Well didn't you just walk right into that.

Until evidence is shown for any deity anywhere, there is certainly more evidence on the side of the atheistic argument than there can ever be on the theistic side.

Man used to believe that the gods lives in the clouds, or on top of really high mountains, or in the dirt... But when man was finally able to go to those places, he found that there were no gods at all. So man moved his idea of god into some etheric supernatural realm and they leave him there to this day, I suppose strictly because it's an impossible thing to prove the existence of an impossible being.

The only evidence that exists for gods is that which is claimed to be felt by theistic believers. That's the absolute best evidence for deity. If that was the absolute best evidence for anything else in your life you would readily admit that it's an unlikely thing. But theists don't do that with the god concept, and I'm always puzzled as to why.

 

[Thana]

Until evidence is shown for any deity anywhere, there is certainly more evidence on the side of the atheistic argument than there can ever be on the theistic side.

Man used to believe that the gods lives in the clouds, or on top of really high mountains, or in the dirt... But when man was finally able to go to those places, he found that there were no gods at all. So man moved his idea of god into some etheric supernatural realm and they leave him there to this day, I suppose strictly because it's an impossible thing to prove the existence of an impossible being.

The only evidence that exists for gods is that which is claimed to be felt by theistic believers. That's the absolute best evidence for deity. If that was the absolute best evidence for anything else in your life you would readily admit that it's an unlikely thing. But theists don't do that with the god concept, and I'm always puzzled as to why.

'I think therefore I am' seems to be in the same boat, but I digress.

You do know that there are still plenty of people who believe in the old Gods? Nature spirits and whatnot.

And if what you said was actually true than Deism wouldn't be a thing.

 

[jonathan180iq]

I notice that you didn't take the easiest route to shoot down my post by simply supplying evidence of a god, anywhere, ever... Why is that?

'I think therefore I am' seems to be in the same boat, but I digress.

It's certainly an acceptable argument, but only after plenty of consideration. There's tons of daily experiential evidence to support the idea behind it, and you and I live it every day. This argument isn't planted somewhere far out in the in unreachable imaginary "other" realm. It's explainable to a level that we all pretty much accept.

Since gods aren't evidenced, and there's nothing to prove that they think, wouldn't that necessarily mean that they "are not"?

You do know that there are still plenty of people who believe in the old Gods? Nature spirits and whatnot.

Sure there are - but they likewise have no evidence for the god-hood of the objects that the imbue with deity, do they? Neo-Pagans aren't really at the forefront of philosophical debates about theism, you know what I mean?

And if what you said was actually true than Deism wouldn't be a thing.

It's the same thing. They claim God created everything and then just sat back, but likewise have no evidence to help support that claim. It's merely a philosophical stance. And while I'll personally agree that it's more appealing to deal with in debates, it's ultimately always going to fall short because there's no evidence for its foundation.

 

[Theunis]

Ummm, what? You think the Nazis invented the atom bomb by reading ancient sanskrit texts?

I believe you've been watching too many Ancient Aliens episodes.

Heehee; Come now there is nothing about Ancient Aliens in what I said.

Do a Google search on Vihamas and follow one of the trails.

When America heard of the German atom bomb project they panicked and spent millions to build one before the Germans.

 

[outhouse]

Do a Google search on Vihamas and follow one of the trails.

mythology is the only trail

 

[outhouse]

When America heard of the German atom bomb project they panicked and spent millions to build one before the Germans.

True.

But they never had the complete recipe for enriching uranium and were far behind us in that aspect.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Heehee; Come now there is nothing about Ancient Aliens in what I said.

Do a Google search on Vihamas and follow one of the trails.

When America heard of the German atom bomb project they panicked and spent millions to build one before the Germans.

Your history is all sorts of incorrect.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nuclear_weapon_project

And I think you mean "Vimanas" and yeah... they have Ancient Alien Fanatic written all over them.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vimanas/esp_vimanas_9.htm

"Inspired by" and "instructed how to" are two completely different things, my friend.

 

[Thana]

I notice that you didn't take the easiest route to shoot down my post by simply supplying evidence of a god, anywhere, ever... Why is that?

Because evidence isn't proof and in this context providing it would be a waste of time.

It's certainly an acceptable argument, but only after plenty of consideration. There's tons of daily experiential evidence to support the idea behind it, and you and I live it every day. This argument isn't planted somewhere far out in the in unreachable imaginary "other" realm. It's explainable to a level that we all pretty much accept.

Since gods aren't evidenced, and there's nothing to prove that they think, wouldn't that necessarily mean that they "are not"?


Sure there are - but they likewise have no evidence for the god-hood of the objects that the imbue with deity, do they? Neo-Pagans aren't really at the forefront of philosophical debates about theism, you know what I mean?


It's the same thing. They claim God created everything and then just sat back, but likewise have no evidence to help support that claim. It's merely a philosophical stance. And while I'll personally agree that it's more appealing to deal with in debates, it's ultimately always going to fall short because there's no evidence for its foundation.

I think you're confused in your understanding of what evidence is. Even Pastafarians could pull out evidence in support of their beliefs if they felt like it.

And I totally disagree, Deism is not more appealing to deal with in debates it's the antithesis of debates because you simply can't debate it. There is absolutely no way to prove it either which way and really no substance to argue with at all. Same with Pantheism.

My point was that if God was just a feeling Theists had then there would be no such thing as Deism.

 

[outhouse]

Ancient Alien Fanatic

To me that show is embarrassing humanity

 

[outhouse]

My point was that if God was just a feeling Theists had then there would be no such thing as Deism.

False

Different levels of trust in feelings