Is there any religious argument that actually stands when scrutinized with reason?

[muhammad_isa]

If you accepted academia and credible knowledge.

You are deluded .. you have no credibility whatsoever, imo..

You see, the thing is, you are an atheist .. you see what you see .. you conclude what you conclude.

Other people obviously see something different to you .. it has nothing to do with accepting 'academia'. There are many Muslim doctors throughout the world .. I suppose they aren't accepting academia either.

I don't believe you are stupid because you are an atheist .. but clearly you think that believers are all ignorant fools

 

[outhouse]

Other people obviously see something different to you

Well that is not correct.

I follow the academic road, and all my topics are typical for standard education.

Its obvious fanaticism and fundamentalism will disagree with most all of academia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_science

In the Muslim world today, most of the focus on the relation between Islam and science involves scientific interpretations of the Quran (and sometimes the Sunna) that claim to show that these sources make prescient statements about the nature of the universe, biological development and other phenomena later confirmed by scientific research, thus demonstrating proof of the divine origin of the Qur'an (and sometimes the Sunna). This effort has been criticized by scientists and philosophers as containing logical fallacies,[1] being unscientific, likely to be contradicted by evolving scientific theories.[2][3]

 

[prometheus11]

Muslim doctors and scientists like Christian doctors and scientists compartmentalize their thinking. The evidence they would never accept in their profession they gladly accept in their religion.

That's why none of them use prayer instead of the elements of their discipline to test hypotheses or cure patients. And it's why none of them are able to use their disciplines to prove their God exists in the way you can prove a medicine works or a mathematical formula functions.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Muslim doctors and scientists like Christian doctors and scientists compartmentalize their thinking..

Oh yes .. well you better hope that you don't have to be treated by one then .. sounds painful

 

[outhouse]

Oh yes .. well you better hope that you don't have to be treated by one then .. sounds painful

Unless your a female and only a male doctor is on call.

Heaven forbid the taxi driver was a female! boy would that be your unlucky day

 

[prometheus11]

Oh yes .. well you better hope that you don't have to be treated by one then .. sounds painful

What?!? Did you understand my point?

 

[muhammad_isa]

What?!? Did you understand my point?

I think I know what you meant, yes .. I wouldn't agree in general. Why would intelligent people, like doctors, want to believe in hearsay?

Of course, there are many doctors that are not medical doctors too.

 

[Theunis]

You're boring and repetitive .. it's already been explained to you that 'biblical mythology' might be true .. you only believe it to be false.

.if it is true, then it would NOT be plagiarized so your conclusion is TOTALLY WRONG..
.. MIGHT be plagiarised. You have no evidence that Muhammad, peace be with him, was a fraud, pretending to have revelations .. you only believe that Abrahamic scriptures are ALL untrue and copied and added to, one to another.

One day we will see who's conclusions are more reasonable

You carry on telling yourself that you know all history of mankind CATEGORICALLY .. I've seen religious people doing the same thing .. they know it all .. it's black & white.

BAH! Nobody knows all but Almighty God!

I agree with you.
This is just something I noticed. In the OT it says Abraham is an ancestor of the " Ärab" nation so why and how can Outhouse try to say that Abrahamic scriptures are untrue when at least two nations say the same thing. Of course with supreme and categorical knowledge it comes easy to him all he says it is mythology which he does not realize he says it is possible but he can't prove it is not so. How easily he rejects these nations the history in this regard leave me flabbergasted.

 

[outhouse]

In the OT it says Abraham is an ancestor of the " Ärab" nation so why and how can Outhouse try to say that Abrahamic scriptures are untrue when at least two nations say the same thing

because he factually has no historicity as ever existing. All credible scholars claim he is a literary creation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham

By the beginning of the 21st century, archaeologists had "given up hope of recovering any context that would make Abraham, Isaac or Jacob credible 'historical figures'".[13


They are not historical figures.

 

[Theunis]

Muslim doctors and scientists like Christian doctors and scientists compartmentalize their thinking. The evidence they would never accept in their profession they gladly accept in their religion.

That's why none of them use prayer instead of the elements of their discipline to test hypotheses or cure patients. And it's why none of them are able to use their disciplines to prove their God exists in the way you can prove a medicine works or a mathematical formula functions.

Way off base. Because you have not witnessed such prayers, or just speaking to their God by doctors, you think that they do not do so.
The mans backbone was crushed and broken in different places; After doing the surgery the doctor said, well father I have done my best the rest is now up to you; subsequent X-rays left him with a mouth hanging open for what he did and the healing he saw on those X-rays was almost unbelievable. Of course you will now say it is an unsubstantiated anecdote.
Have you ever heard of the hospital in Beijing which is known as the "hospital without medicine"; Look up Gregg Braden, a scientist who is not afraid to investigate all things.

 

[Theunis]

because he factually has no historicity as ever existing. All credible scholars claim he is a literary creation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham

By the beginning of the 21st century, archaeologists had "given up hope of recovering any context that would make Abraham, Isaac or Jacob credible 'historical figures'".[13


They are not historical figures.

Yeah and all credible scientists and scholars at one time claimed the earth is round.
To give up hope is a meaningless statement, How does an archaeologist find evidence of say Moshe ? by digging up his bones that no longer exist.?

What is a credible scholar?

 

[prometheus11]

Way off base. Because you have not witnessed such prayers, or just speaking to their God by doctors, you think that they do not do so.
The mans backbone was crushed and broken in different places; After doing the surgery the doctor said, well father I have done my best the rest is now up to you; subsequent X-rays left him with a mouth hanging open for what he did and the healing he saw on those X-rays was almost unbelievable. Of course you will now say it is an unsubstantiated anecdote.
Have you ever heard of the hospital in Beijing which is known as the "hospital without medicine"; Look up Gregg Braden, a scientist who is not afraid to investigate all things.

Medicine and chemistry work in predictable ways. When a believer scientist is able to get results from God the way results are gotten from medicine and chemistry, the entire world will take note.

Believer scientists sometimes change our entire view of reality regarding energy and matter, but for some reason, they never publish papers that necessitate a change in the entire world's viewpoint on God

Do you understand why that is?

 

[muhammad_isa]

By the beginning of the 21st century, archaeologists had "given up hope of recovering any context that would make Abraham, Isaac or Jacob credible 'historical figures'".[13


They are not historical figures.

For the umpteenth time, so what???

You can use archaeological evidence as evidence of something .. but you CANNOT use the lack of it to prove anything at all!
CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT ?

 

[aoji]

"Reason".

You make it sound as if it is intrinsic and inherent to all human beings when it is nothing more than a philosophical ideal. The fact is that anyone can rationalize anything, for example anyone can rationalize killing anyone else (like race, religion, sexual orientation, skin colour, ideology, political affiliation, east or west, north or south, center, conservative or liberal, etc.), the lawyer can rationalize robbing the widow, the doctor can rationalize needless surgeries to get your house, your savings, your pension, your benefits, your assets; the citizen can rationalize frivolous lawsuits, the thief can rationalize robbing, the rapist can rationalize raping, etc.

No, "Reason" is just some philosophical idea, an ideal, and as such it can never be pure, nor true. Like God it is something one appeals to. Stop appealing to Reason. There is no such thing. There is the Law and nothing else.

 

[Theunis]

Medicine and chemistry work in predictable ways. When a believer scientist is able to get results from God the way results are gotten from medicine and chemistry, the entire world will take note.

Believer scientists sometimes change our entire view of reality regarding energy and matter, but for some reason, they never publish papers that necessitate a change in the entire world's viewpoint on God

Do you understand why that is?

Ah yes like Thalidomide that caused so many malformed babies; Chemo therapies that kill more people than they cure;

You appear to be on the brink of a major revelation; Pray tell me what are your thoughts on the matter.

Or is it just the AMA who will kick him out and he will lose his income and then cannot take care of his family? (Guess work. conjecture, fabricated reasons wot.)
Do you know all the factors that pass through a mans mind when he prefers to remain silent ?

 

[outhouse]

For the umpteenth time, so what???

You can use archaeological evidence as evidence of something .. but you CANNOT use the lack of it to prove anything at all!
CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT ?

It is not me who does not understand.

because he factually has no historicity as ever existing. All credible scholars claim he is a literary creation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham

By the beginning of the 21st century, archaeologists had "given up hope of recovering any context that would make Abraham, Isaac or Jacob credible 'historical figures'".[13


They are not historical figures.


Van Seters examined the patriarchal stories and argued that their names, social milieu, and messages strongly suggested that they were Iron Age creations

That means fiction and or mythology

 

[prometheus11]

Ah yes like Thalidomide that caused so many malformed babies; Chemo therapies that kill more people than they cure;

You appear to be on the brink of a major revelation; Pray tell me what are your thoughts on the matter.

Or is it just the AMA who will kick him out and he will lose his income and then cannot take care of his family? (Guess work. conjecture, fabricated reasons wot.)
Do you know all the factors that pass through a mans mind when he prefers to remain silent ?

If you're so intent on dodging the issue, no one can stop you. Just throw red herrings and build strawmen, but you're not down on the nut, are you?


Why don't scientists prove God like they prove other discoveries?

 

[Mister Emu]

I hope you're after more than that.

No, that is all I was after out of you.

Your not in a position to steer the debate.

Just trying to keep a steady course cap'n. If you want to change directions, by all means, go ahead. I won't chase off after you though.

Your god

You seem very concerned with attacking whatever you consider my beliefs to be and similarly unconcerned with defending your position that you hold all possible evidence of deity in your knowledge set. I'd like to know your methodology for collecting it. It will be groundbreaking because, generally, perfect knowledge is considered an impossibility due to our limitations.

 

[outhouse]

Chemo therapies that kill more people than they cure

You dont have any credible statistics to back that up

The overall 5-year relative survival rate for childhood cancer has improved markedly over the past 3 decades, from 58.1% for cases diagnosed from 1975 to 1977 to 82.5% for diagnoses during 2001 to 2007, due to new and improved treatments

 

[outhouse]

It will be groundbreaking because, generally, perfect knowledge is considered an impossibility due to our limitations.

Perfect knowledge is not required to study mythology.

You seem very concerned with attacking

Who is attacking?

I'm just trying you to define your particular god of many that exist so we can debate the details. But you avoid this, and use a vague and rather generic philosophical sort of definition with no provided details.