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Is there anyone out there who upholds bible infalliblility?
- Thread starter ThuggishSplicer
- Start date
*Paul*
Jesus loves you
Can you give an explanation of what you mean by infallible. Do you mean in it's translation or in the message or in the facts it presents.
I may take your bait, I may not depends on my mood.
For the record I hold that the bible is the complete and perfect word of God beginning to end and you can't convince me otherwise.
I may take your bait, I may not depends on my mood.
For the record I hold that the bible is the complete and perfect word of God beginning to end and you can't convince me otherwise.
I'd settle for theories that make sense.
Green Kepi
Active Member
Can you give an explanation of what you mean by infallible. Do you mean in it's translation or in the message or in the facts it presents.
I may take your bait, I may not depends on my mood.
For the record I hold that the bible is the complete and perfect word of God beginning to end and you can't convince me otherwise.
Which Bible/Version do you believe has "perfect" wordage?
*Paul*
Jesus loves you
I don't think that the AV can be bettered, i'm not qualified to judge but certainly from my own experience and when I look back at the men of God who have used that version in the past I would say that God really speaks powerfully through it.
idea
Question Everything
if it is complete... what about...
Lost scriptures: There are many sacred writings mentioned in the scriptures that we do not have today, among which are these books and writers:
the covenant (Ex. 24:7),
(Old Testament | Exodus24:7) And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be cobedient.
the wars of the Lord (Num. 21:14),
(Old Testament | Numbers21:14) 14 Wherefore it is said in the book of the wars of the LORD, What he did in the Red sea, and in the brooks of Arnon,
Jasher (Josh. 10:13; 2 Sam. 1:18),
(Old Testament | 2 Samuel1:18)18 (Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: behold, it is written in the book of Jasher.)
(Old Testament | Joshua10:13)13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
~ the sun stood still - this is HUGE and we don't know all the details... I actually have read the book of Jasher - at least what we have of it. Fascinating book.
~ this book is referenced to multiple times, it must be really good script.
the acts of Solomon (1 Kgs. 11:41),
41 And the rest of the acts of Solomon, and all that he did, and his wisdom, are they not written in the book of the acts of Solomon?
(Old Testament | 1 Kings11:41)
~ the rest of the wisdom of Solomon, there is another book I would like to get my hands on.
Samuel the seer (1 Chr. 29:29),
29 Now the acts of David the king, first and last, behold, they are written in the book of Samuel the seer, and in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the book of Gad the seer,
(Old Testament | 1 Chronicles29:29)
~Books written by prophets and seers - do you know who a "seer" is? They are more than a prophet. A seer is a person authorized of God to see with spiritual eyes things which God has hidden from the world ..
Books written by a seer surely would contain powerful inforamtion revealing the mysteries of God.
Nathan the prophet (2 Chr. 9:29),
Shemaiah the prophet (2 Chr. 12:15),
15 Now the acts of Rehoboam, first and last, are they not written in the book of Shemaiah the prophet, and of Iddo the seer concerning genealogies? And there were wars between Rehoboam and Jeroboam continually.
(Old Testament | 2 Chronicles12:15)
Iddo the prophet (2 Chr. 13:22),
22 And the rest of the acts of Abijah, and his ways, and his sayings, are written in the story of the prophet Iddo.
(Old Testament | 2 Chronicles13:22)
Jehu (2 Chr. 20:34),
34 Now the rest of the acts of Jehoshaphat, first and last, behold, they are written in the book of Jehu the son of Hanani, who is mentioned in the book of the kings of Israel.
(Old Testament | 2 Chronicles20:34)
the sayings of the seers (2 Chr. 33:19),
19 His prayer also, and how God was intreated of him, and all his sin, and his trespass, and the places wherein he built high places, and set up groves and graven images, before he was humbled: behold, they are written among the sayings of the seers.
(Old Testament | 2 Chronicles33:19)
look the above scripts up - they all refer to books written by prophets and seers about miracles and teachings of God - books that we no longer have compelte copies of... These are not history books, these are scriptures written by prophets and seers.
The Bible is not complete.
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Yes and the entire Nag Hammadi Library. Huge gaps in Bible completeness.:yes:
starlite
Texasgirl
idea
Question Everything
Here are some of the scripts I use
Pseudepigrapha, Apocrypha and Sacred Writings
I wonder... if a Jewish person came to this thread, and said that the Torah was complete - told us Christians to look up:
2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 4:2)
and told us that the entire NT was not scripture... how would they defend that it is?
Sad thing to refuse additional info when it is out there...
idea
Question Everything
cool link.
There is still more though...
So many think that by going back to the orig documents / language etc. everything will be fixed… The Sadducees and Pharisees had the original manuscripts in their native tongue, and it did not help them. That is why a modern day prophet is needed. Even if you get all the words just right, the interpretations of those words are all over the place – 38,000 different Christian denominations. You need personal revelation from the spirit, and a prophet, to really know what is going on.
3 ...no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
(New Testament | 1 Corinthians12:3)
Revelation from the Spirit is the #1 source of info (trumps the bible)
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
(New Testament | Matthew 16:17 - 18)
the church is supposed to be built on the rock of personal revelation.
For starters, why you consider the Bible to be it.
I rather agree, you just never know where we might find tidbits of wisdom that could help us figure things out.Here are some of the scripts I use
Pseudepigrapha, Apocrypha and Sacred Writings
I wonder... if a Jewish person came to this thread, and said that the Torah was complete - told us Christians to look up:
2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
(Old Testament | Deuteronomy4:2)
and told us that the entire NT was not scripture... how would they defend that it is?
Sad thing to refuse additional info when it is out there...
idea
Question Everything
8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
(Pearl of Great Price | Articles of Faith1:8 - 9)
In other words - our cannon is wide open. (And people say we are not Christians because of this) What are they afraid of?
6 Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?
7 Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the cearth beneath; and I bring forth my dword unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth?
8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also.
9 And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.
10 Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.
11 For I command all men, both in the east and in the west, and in the north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that they shall write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the books which shall be written I will judge the world, every man according to their works, according to that which is written.
12 For behold, I shall speak unto the Jews and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the Nephites and they shall cwrite it; and I shall also speak unto the other tribes of the house of Israel, which I have led away, and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto all nations of the earth and they shall write it.
13 And it shall come to pass that the Jews shall have the words of the Nephites, and the Nephites shall have the words of the Jews; and the Nephites and the Jews shall have the words of the blost tribes of Israel; and the lost tribes of Israel shall have the words of the Nephites and the Jews.
14 And it shall come to pass that my people, which are of the house of Israel, shall be gathered home unto the blands of their possessions; and my word also shall be gathered in cone. And I will show unto them that fight against my word and against my people, who are of the ehouse of Israel, that I am God, and that I covenanted with Abraham that I would remember his seed forever.
(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi29:6 - 14)
the world is full of scriptures. some people see it, some don't.
9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
(Pearl of Great Price | Articles of Faith1:8 - 9)
In other words - our cannon is wide open. (And people say we are not Christians because of this) What are they afraid of?
6 Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?
7 Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the cearth beneath; and I bring forth my dword unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth?
8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also.
9 And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.
10 Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.
11 For I command all men, both in the east and in the west, and in the north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that they shall write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the books which shall be written I will judge the world, every man according to their works, according to that which is written.
12 For behold, I shall speak unto the Jews and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the Nephites and they shall cwrite it; and I shall also speak unto the other tribes of the house of Israel, which I have led away, and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto all nations of the earth and they shall write it.
13 And it shall come to pass that the Jews shall have the words of the Nephites, and the Nephites shall have the words of the Jews; and the Nephites and the Jews shall have the words of the blost tribes of Israel; and the lost tribes of Israel shall have the words of the Nephites and the Jews.
14 And it shall come to pass that my people, which are of the house of Israel, shall be gathered home unto the blands of their possessions; and my word also shall be gathered in cone. And I will show unto them that fight against my word and against my people, who are of the ehouse of Israel, that I am God, and that I covenanted with Abraham that I would remember his seed forever.
(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi29:6 - 14)
the world is full of scriptures. some people see it, some don't.
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Green Kepi
Active Member
We can easily see from these Forums why so much division exists not only in the Christian belief
in all religions its the same
division. Human opinions. Were just a bunch of humans blowing in the breeze. One of us believes the Holy Spirit speaks directly to us
the other needs an additional book to the Bible. Seems as if all use different translations. Even those of us with the same translations view the same exact sentence different ways.
Come on we must admit translation errors have occurred. After all, we have many translations and they sometimes conflict with each other. Are all of those translations perfect? I doubt that anybody makes that claim. Are some of those translations perfect? If one was, how would we know it?
This is a good discussion let us not approach the problems with the attitude that the Bible cannot possibly be wrong, for some have listed good reasons to believe that the versions we hold in our hands may be wrong. So perhaps, when we examine the claimed errors in the Bible, we will find that there are indeed real errors.
Im so glad that God looks into our hearts and will realize (on Judgment Day) who tried and who did not try to do as He wants thru what Scriptures that we do have. As I stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ I only can say that I did the best I could with what I had passed down to me throughout the centuries .
Come on we must admit translation errors have occurred. After all, we have many translations and they sometimes conflict with each other. Are all of those translations perfect? I doubt that anybody makes that claim. Are some of those translations perfect? If one was, how would we know it?
This is a good discussion let us not approach the problems with the attitude that the Bible cannot possibly be wrong, for some have listed good reasons to believe that the versions we hold in our hands may be wrong. So perhaps, when we examine the claimed errors in the Bible, we will find that there are indeed real errors.
Im so glad that God looks into our hearts and will realize (on Judgment Day) who tried and who did not try to do as He wants thru what Scriptures that we do have. As I stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ I only can say that I did the best I could with what I had passed down to me throughout the centuries .
idea
Question Everything
What if God asks you why you limited yourself to only using what had been passed down through the centuries? What if He asks you why you did not study and contemplate the other materials He has made available to you?
http://www.mormon.org/mormonorg/eng...?offerId=73d3c8ab1a7e1110VgnVCM100000176f620a____
Book of Mormon
It is not one or the other, use it all. Use the Spirit, use all the scriptures, use all the resources. They have all been laid before you.
Green Kepi
Active Member
*Paul*
Jesus loves you
Simple, God never meant for us to have them in this dispensation, if He did then we would, I do not think that God is unable to provide and preserve for us. God has "given us all things that pertain unto life and godliness". Paul said that, I don't think he had those books either, he certainly didn't mention them.
The Bible is not the only book of wisdom in this world. I guess God does want us to have all the books, because they are there to be read if we want.
