Is there Free Will in Heaven?

[Deicidal Maniac]

I've heard time and time again from Christians that the reason there's so much evil in the world is so that we may possess free will. Without evil, there would be no free will. My questions are:

1) Is there evil in heaven?

2) If not, then does that mean there's no free will in heaven either?

3) If there is free will and no evil in heaven, then why didn't God just make things like that on Earth to begin with?

 

[Cordoba]

Welcome to the forum

God created angels without a free will to disbelieve or disobey

They are perfect in that they can only obey God

If God willed, He could have created mankind the same as He created angels. But that was not His plan.

He created us with a free will as He wants us to believe in Him and obey Him by our own free will, using the advanced intellect He gave us and the Guidance He sent us through His prophets

To answer your first two questions:

Angels are in Heaven and they do not have free will. On the Day of Judgment, believers will be admitted into Heaven by God's Mercy, and they would have free will, but will not disobey God, as God will remove evil from the hearts of all dwellers of Paradise.

 

[Deicidal Maniac]

Welcome to the forum

God created angels without a free will to disbelieve or disobey

They are perfect in that they can only obey God

If God willed, He could have created mankind the same as He created angels. But that was not His plan.

He created us with a free will as He wants us to believe in Him and obey Him by our own free will, using the advanced intellect He gave us and the Guidance He sent us through His prophets

To answer your first two questions:

Angels are in Heaven and they do not have free will. On the Day of Judgment, believers will be admitted into Heaven by God's Mercy, and they would have free will, but will not disobey God, as God will remove evil from the hearts of all dwellers of Paradise.

Thanks for your response, but please answer my third question. Why didn't God just remove all evil from our hearts to begin with? Why even allow evil to exist? If we could have free will without disobeying God, then why is that not the case?

 

[Cordoba]

God created Adam different from angels

Adam's mission and that of his descendants is to believe in God and obey Him out of choice and free will

It's a different relation compared to obeying God when there is no alternative, like the case of angels

Mankind were destined to live away from Heaven as a transition phase (the life we live here on earth), then after that return to our Creator where we will be held accountable for what we did with our free will.

In order to be able to survive on earth, where God granted mankind free will to obey or disobey, He gave us means to deffend ourselves, like physical strength. Some people use this strength in the right way (self defence), while others may use it the wrong way (aggression)

We have God's Guidance to follow to refine our manners and the way we live on earth, and those who choose to believe and obey God will live a happy life here and in the Hereafter

So the answer is life on earth is different from life in Heaven

 

[Deicidal Maniac]

God created Adam different from angels

Adam's mission and that of his descendants is to believe in God and obey Him out of choice and free will

It's a different relation compared to obeying God when there is no alternative, like the case of angels

Mankind were destined to live away from Heaven as a transition phase (the life we live here on earth), then after that return to our Creator where we will be held accountable for what we did with our free will.

In order to be able to survive on earth, where God granted mankind free will to obey or disobey, He gave us means to deffend ourselves, like physical strength. Some people use this strength in the right way (self defence), while others may use it the wrong way (aggression)

We have God's Guidance to follow to refine our manners and the way we live on earth, and those who choose to believe and obey God will live a happy life here and in the Hereafter

So the answer is life on earth is different from life in Heaven

So by using our free will we can either believe and obey God or we can disbelieve and be sent to hell? Who would consciously choose to go to hell? If there's only one correct choice (believing in God), then how is it really free will? Isn't disbelieving in God just an honest mistake rather than willful disobedience? I don't believe in God because I cannot believe in God. It's not really a choice. It's more of a logical conclusion. For the life of me, I cannot conclude otherwise. Do I really deserve to go to hell?

 

[Cordoba]

So by using our free will we can either believe and obey God or we can disbelieve and be sent to hell? Who would consciously choose to go to hell? If there's only one correct choice (believing in God), then how is it really free will? Isn't disbelieving in God just an honest mistake rather than willful disobedience? I don't believe in God because I cannot believe in God. It's not really a choice. It's more of a logical conclusion. For the life of me, I cannot conclude otherwise. Do I really deserve to go to hell?

No you don't, as this is not your final choice

Finding the right answer of whether God exists or not is a life-long journey

What counts is being 100% honest and objective in the search for the right answer

Some people choose to disbelieve and disobey as they think that the path of faith is too difficult or that it would go against their own preferences of how to live this life. By doing that, they are choosing this life to the Hereafter

It's their free choice ...

And that's what free will is all about

 

[Deicidal Maniac]

No you don't, as this is not your final choice

Finding the right answer of whether God exists or not is a life-long journey

What counts is being 100% honest and objective in the search for the right answer

Some people choose to disbelieve and disobey as they think that the path of faith is too difficult or that it would go against their own preferences of how to live this life. By doing that, they are choosing this life to the Hereafter

It's their free choice ...

And that's what free will is all about

I still don't understand that if God can give us free will and prevent us from doing evil, then why doesn't he? You say that he wants us to either choose to worship him or choose to go to hell. What kind of choice is that? It's like putting a gun to someone's head and saying, "You have a choice whether or not to worship me, but if you don't I'm going to blow your brains out!" The only reason I can figure this making any sense is that he actually enjoys sending some people to hell. He wants some people to suffer for eternity, otherwise why even allow evil to exist in the first place?

 

[Cordoba]

God does not enjoy sending anyone to Hell. In fact He wants to send us all to Heaven.

The proof is that He has a place for each single one of us reserved in Heaven

Going back to what happened with Adam, God gave him and Eve all what they needed and commanded them not to eat from one tree. Adam forgot and ate from that tree, and God sent him out of Heaven for this sin.

He misused his free will, and for this Adam was sent to earth where he would struggle for a living. But he repented and God forgave him.

Free will means one can choose between good and evil

If this choice does not exist, how would there be free will?

 

[jonman122]

God does not enjoy sending anyone to Hell. In fact He wants to send us all to Heaven.

The proof is that He has a place for each single one of us reserved in Heaven.

Going back to what happened with Adam, God gave him and Eve all what they needed and commanded them not to eat from one tree. Adam forgot and ate from that tree, and God sent him out of Heaven for this sin.

He misused his free will, and for this Adam was sent to earth where he would struggle for a living. But he repented and God forgave him.

Free will means one can choose between good and evil

If this choice does not exist, how would there be free will?

if Adam had free will, how could he know that taking from the tree of knowledge would be bad? how could he know that listening to eve to eat some of the fruit would be a bad thing? is free will with no knowledge even considered free will?

how can you have free will if you have no understanding of good and evil? poor adam had no idea that what he was doing was wrong, he had no idea what wrong was.

and what proof do you have that god has a place for us in heaven? please find me a credible source and do some tests to prove this theory.

 

[Cordoba]

It was not the tree of knowledge, according to the Qur'an

Just one tree which God commanded him not to eat from

So he did have advance knowledge through God's warning

 

[jonman122]

if god exists, free will does not. If he is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent (feel free to look those up) then we don't have free will because he already knows exactly which decisions we will make throughout our entire lives, which of us to damn and which of us will go to heaven, and exactly when and how the world will end and how all life will end and when.

having everything being pre-known means free will is only an illusion based on the presumption that what you think is happening NOW and has not already happened as god sees things.

if you want to get in to real stuff though you'll find that everything you see and feel is actually in the past but i could explain that later.

 

[jonman122]

God created angels without a free will to disbelieve or disobey

doesn't the bible disprove this with the story of Gabriel? How could he have fallen from grace if he had no free will of his own? That means god would have had to command him to fall from grace, and command him to be satan, and command him to attempt to sway the humans to do evil acts against god and to get gods creation to destroy itself.

Is god really that maniacal?

 

[Cordoba]

You mean Satan not Gabriel

Satan was not an angel according to the Qur'an

He was a jinn, a third type of creatures which God created from fire, and who have free will

Satan was originally an obedient jinn who worshiped God and happened to be with the angels when God commanded them all to prostrate to Adam (Satan included).

All the angels prostrated as they can only obey God, but Satan refused as he said that he was superior to Adam (using his free will). He was cursed by God for this and sent away.

Since that moment, Satan and his followers became man's worst enemy, and it was Satan who suggested to Adam to eat from the tree and disobey God

 

[jonman122]

No, in the Qu'ran the "Zabiniah" are the "angels" who torment sinful persons in hell. There is no need for demons, or a devil, because god has his angels play both parts.

this does suggest that the angels did in fact have no free will though, as they cannot see what harm they are doing.

but there are many different bibles and many different beliefs based on the bible, so no one religion can say whether people had free will at the time or not. in the original Judeo-christian god bible, adam and eve lacked free will and eve ate from the tree first. I'm not going to speculate on every bible ever, because there are hundreds at this point and going through each to disprove it would be pointless. The more they are disproved, the more people change them to be less contradictory to themselves.

 

[Cordoba]

Each angel has a different role

They all obey God's command

Other angels pray for believers and ask God to forgive them, and others protect them.

The angel of death comes to take the soul of a person who is due to die ...

Each have a different role, but all without free will

Only humans and jinn from among God's creatures have free will to choose

And we will be held accountable for that free will and the choices we make in life

 

[Levite]

I've heard time and time again from Christians that the reason there's so much evil in the world is so that we may possess free will. Without evil, there would be no free will. My questions are:

1) Is there evil in heaven?

2) If not, then does that mean there's no free will in heaven either?

3) If there is free will and no evil in heaven, then why didn't God just make things like that on Earth to begin with?

Well, I can only give you a Jewish answer, not a Christian answer, but maybe it will help. Of course, this is all in reference to The World To Come, which in Judaism is more or less analogous to Heaven, but is not quite the same concept.

1. Not from angels, and I suspect, not from the souls of human creatures either. I don't know whether or not to include God, who as the One Source of All is responsible for the existence of evil, and therefore must incorporate some seed of evil within Himself (see Isaiah 45:7). Some in the Jewish tradition would tell you that the evil do not make it to The World To Come (according to varying ideas-- Judaism has no single theology of the afterlife, but has many suggested ideas people have proposed, which can be accepted or not as individuals see fit-- either they simply lose their individual souls and their energy returns to God after death, or they work out their sins in Gehinnom, which is like purgatory) but I would go with the Jewish tradition that says that people who are lacking in some way, or sinful, or have not learned enough are reincarnated repeatedly until they are fit, and then they go to The World To Come-- thus they are no longer evil when they get there.

2. Angels have no free will in Jewish thought. People do, but as I just mentioned, I believe that by the time anyone makes it to the World To Come, they have figured out (of their own free will) why they don't want to continue to choose evil.

Between those two answers, hopefully it will be clear why your question 3 is moot IMO.

 

[jonman122]

And we will be held accountable for that free will and the choices we make in life

do you have any proof that we are held accountable for any actions in our lives to any higher power than the law we were born in to? if a woman is stoned to death, is every single person that killed her held accountable for that action upon being sized up to enter grace? or would it be more accurate to say that PEOPLE hold people accountable for their actions?

 

[Cordoba]

Man-made laws in this life serve a purpose which is making life organized

As for proof that we will be held accountable on the Day of Judgment, it is one of the six articles of faith (in Islam). If one believes that God exists, and believes that the Qur'an is His divine revelation, then we believe what God has informed us, which is each deed (good or bad) will be in our balance. So to answer your question, the proof is in the Qur'an

We also believe that He is a Merciful God, and that He forgives all sins when a believer repents

 

[jonman122]

As for proof that we will be held accountable on the Day of Judgment, it is one of the six articles of faith (in Islam). If one believes that God exists, and believes that the Qur'an is His divine revelation, then we believe what God has informed us, which is each deed (good or bad) will be in our balance. So to answer your question, the proof is in the Qur'an

Saying that the proof for such a notion is in the qu'ran is a felacious argument, the qu'ran itself was written by men who say they did it at the hand of god, but what grounds do we have to believe that they had any contact with god whatsoever, or that they even existed themselves?

How can you say that the proof for the qu'ran being correct is in the qu'ran? how can you verify that what god said in the qu'ran is even really said by god, and not what some men want you to believe god said, and confuse and manipulate you? you truly have no proof, and no grounds for arguing that there would in fact be free will in heaven.

If god takes away the ability to be evil, then we truly won't have free will in heaven anyways, so your argument is already invalid.

 

[Cordoba]

It's best to keep to the main topic of this thread:

If god takes away the ability to be evil, then we truly won't have free will in heaven anyways, so your argument is already invalid.

The laws of Heaven when believers enter it in the Hereafter will be different laws

There will be no evil, because before entering Heaven God will remove from all believers all negative feelings they may have towards others (called ghil in the Qur'an)

That does not mean we won't have free will to enjoy Heaven. Each believer will choose what he / she wants to do there.

We believe that it is the Abode of Peace, where believers are rewarded and granted an eternal happy life

Where do you see a problem?