Is there proof God can not exist?

[crystalonyx]

There is a lot of similar threads. I want to ask a slightly different question ( I think it is)
Is there anything that suggests that God is an impossibility?
Is there anything in science that makes it clear that God can not exist and could not have had anything to do with the universe?

Which god? Certainly some god definitions are an impossibility from a scientific viewpoint.

 

[ManTimeForgot]

That is not a logical way of looking at anything.

deities have a valid historical origin, one can follow many myths back to a deities origin.

the same cannot be said for ET in the same context.


imagination based on fear, wants and needs.


only in imagination land


not true at all.

we know OUR reality very well, the reality of living is not a mystery. If you imagine everything is hocus pokus then you will not live reality.

If you understand life is short, you are born you live and then die, it takes the mystery out.


You are talking philosophically, wondering more then anything leaving everything open to imagination.

Not a "logical" way of looking at things or not a historically valid way of looking at things? And don't think it isn't obvious to everyone else that you have a chip on your shoulder where religion is concerned. In any case, I don't see any logical problems at all. You can certainly say that mythological deities have a history, but I wasn't aware that having an earth history was necessary to be a deity. That mythological deities have to have earth history speaks to me about the nature of myth, not about the nature of deities. It is, however, for me a largely moot point since I don't advocate the worship of a deity or extra-terrestrial, nor do I consider any mythological being likely to exist. so I don't see why any of this would matter to you.


If you are going to purposefully misconstrue statements of cosmology for statements made about life on planet earth, then there can't even be meaningful discussion between us.

I frankly don't care if the universe (let alone earth or life one earth) was created. An ET of exceptional knowledge/capability (hell us in the future might well have done it even) could have done it, and it still wouldn't mean a single thing about whether or not reality as a whole was created.

Everything SHOULD be open to exploration of possibility, and it is only when evidence informs us that we should alter the probabilities in some way that we should restrict what we consider probable. Unless you have a spare reality lying around, then we really can and do know nothing about reality itself.


If your argument is that we should restrict debate about cosmology until we fix the problems with our life and living area, then I wouldn't disagree. But that is not the same thing as giving up on speculation nor is it the same as declaring speculation defunct. Paradigms are important; the ideas that you generate are enclosed by your world view (if your world view does not support an idea, then there is a very strong chance that you cannot come up with that idea).


As a side note: If you actually feel as though life has no mystery and that exploring the various possibilities for the universe (or whatever is beyond it) is pointless, then I pity you. There is beauty to be found everywhere: from the smallest particle to the largest celestial object and every thing in between. And what we know compared to what we don't know is a mere drop in an ocean of possibilities. We are ignorant, but if there weren't mysteries left, then we wouldn't have anything left to solve.

MTF

 

[ManTimeForgot]

staff edit

And if you were trying to espouse a rationally superior position you would have failed miserably. Impossible and scientific or rational do not belong in the same sentence. Black swans happen. Quantum effects didn't have any evidence for 50,000 years; I suppose quantum effects are thoroughly impossible and do not exist entirely?


Moreover the definition of a "god" (Not supreme deity or perfection what have you) is pretty much synonymous with an ET that likes to dabble in the cultures of "lesser beings." If you think this is impossible, then I don't imagine you have much faith in humanity making it far enough technologically and rationally to be able to qualify.

To wit, a "god" is a relative term.

MTF

 

[9Westy9]

You can't prove something being impossible. You can point out logical improbability but not much more, to my current and limited knowledge

 

[Copernicus]

You can't prove something being impossible. You can point out logical improbability but not much more, to my current and limited knowledge

Contradictions are impossible claims, and you can prove contradictions. Some definitions of God render him an impossible being, because the properties attributed to God lead to contradictions. (See The Impossibility of God.)

 

[9Westy9]

Contradictions are impossible claims, and you can prove contradictions. Some definitions of God render him an impossible being, because the properties attributed to God lead to contradictions. (See The Impossibility of God.)

Of course the counter argument is 'god is beyond logic'. I don't personally buy that explanation. As for contradictions I guess they could be classed as impossibilities.

 

[Copernicus]

Of course the counter argument is 'god is beyond logic'...

And what kind of counterargument can possibly be constructed to support such a claim? God is not beyond logic, but the claim that he is is.

 

[outhouse]

a deities definition is only limited to mans imagination.


Most all theist will admit man made all the other deities that were ever created. Somehow based on the geographical location they were born, theirs is magically real

 

[9Westy9]

And what kind of counterargument can possibly be constructed to support such a claim? God is not beyond logic, but the claim that he is is.

Hence why I don't buy into that explanation . Also a reason why I'm no longer Christian

 

[ManTimeForgot]

And what kind of counterargument can possibly be constructed to support such a claim? God is not beyond logic, but the claim that he is is.

In order to support the possibility that Reality itself was created you would need something which was beyond logic. "God" in this sense would be the one and only thing that by necessity had to be beyond logic.


Anyone who posits that their deity is beyond logic is committing a logical fallacy. Nothing which has a personal relationship with anything can possibly be beyond logic as it is interacting with reality; which is governed by logic.

MTF

 

[outhouse]

In order to support the possibility that Reality itself was created you would need something which was beyond logic. "God" in this sense would be the one and only thing that by necessity had to be beyond logic.


Anyone who posits that their deity is beyond logic is committing a logical fallacy. Nothing which has a personal relationship with anything can possibly be beyond logic as it is interacting with reality; which is governed by logic.

MTF

is there any reason or logic at all in this post??

 

[Copernicus]

In order to support the possibility that Reality itself was created you would need something which was beyond logic. "God" in this sense would be the one and only thing that by necessity had to be beyond logic.


Anyone who posits that their deity is beyond logic is committing a logical fallacy. Nothing which has a personal relationship with anything can possibly be beyond logic as it is interacting with reality; which is governed by logic.

You appear to contradict yourself here. Are you trying to give us a practical demonstration of something that goes beyond logic?

 

[PrimordialSoup]

Of course this assumes the standard Christian definition of God.

there is NO proof that God does or does not exist.
the same goes true for the Purple Snuffleupagus.......

Me personally I do not need proof that this version of God does not exist...to me this being can not exist, because if you actually read the bible completely from beginning to end, you would see that this being in the Bible is NOT perfect, and to be honest with you, is absent minded, a liar, a murderer, and a general evil doer....

If you do not believe that, then read the Old testament completely.....every word........especially when he burns to death a few thousand Hebrews who were just complaining.........or when he sent Bears to kill little kids who were making fun of an old mans bald head..........yes these are really in the bible........


just my humble opinion....

 

[Viker]

T
Is there anything that suggests that God is an impossibility? No.
Is there anything in science that makes it clear that God can not exist and could not have had anything to do with the universe? No.

Let me reiterate.

Proof against, no.

Evidence against, a strong possibility.

There is a difference.

 

[PrimordialSoup]

trying to prove that a being that does not exist, does not exist - is basically an impossible task...try proving that Unicorns do not exist, or that elves do not exist, any of these tasks are impossible.......mainly because we as human beings have a very limited understanding of everything that exists within the universe.

So to try and have someone prove or disprove that an imaginary being does or does not exist, is basically a complete waste of energy..........how about staying with debating something important, like how can we as a race learn to get along with one another, how can we stop polluting the planet, how can those with different religions learn to accept the fact that we can all live in peace, or continue the same pattern of war that has existed for at least the last 6,000 years........

I say the Christian God does not exist, does that mean that everyone who says he does exist must be my enemy ? and visa versa !!

history has proven that religions are intolerant, maybe it is time we stop standing on the roof tops screaming " MY GOD IS THE ONLY ONE TRUE GOD " and just realize that there are 6.5 billion or so definitions of exactly what God is or isn't.......


Life could be so simple, as a matter of fact it should be...

 

[outhouse]

Life could be so simple, as a matter of fact it should be...

homo sapiens are to primitive for simple my friend

 

[orcel]

Let me reiterate.

Proof against, no.

Evidence against, a strong possibility.

There is a difference.

Actually this is a logical falling. There exists no proof for or against the existence of God, nor can there be for IF God created the universe the that God must exist external from the creation. The evidence to which you refer is based on science. Science is the study of the universe and cannot speak to God at all. At best science can disprove some faulty arguments that describe physical processes as God or as acts of God. IE if I argued that thunder is God bowling. Science can prove me wrong, but that does not disprove God.

 

[orcel]

So what "logic" do you propose we mere mortal humans use?

Human logic is the best we got, I merely suggest we apply it properly.

 

[outhouse]

Actually this is a logical falling. There exists no proof for or against the existence of God, nor can there be for IF God created the universe the that God must exist external from the creation. The evidence to which you refer is based on science. Science is the study of the universe and cannot speak to God at all. At best science can disprove some faulty arguments that describe physical processes as God or as acts of God. IE if I argued that thunder is God bowling. Science can prove me wrong, but that does not disprove God.

No but one can build a case against god and win in court of law that he doesnt exist.

Fact is man has created deities for as long as homo sapiens existed. One can easily prove that ancient semetic speaking people migrated to the holyland starting roughly in 1250BC and within a few hundred years were writing about there different gods they worshipped before they became monotheistic. One can easily trace how the hebrews worshipped different gods and why they changed to a yahwey based deity when they became monotheistic around the time period of second Isaiah roughly 606BC.

The creation story you speak of has its roots in mesopotamian history from previous pagan religions to those of ancient hebrews.

 

[outhouse]

Human logic is the best we got, I merely suggest we apply it properly.

thats a good attituide my friend :yes: