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Is There Truth?

MrMrdevincamus

Voice Of The Martyrs Supporter
Wat is truth? If I can use God, I would say I feel truth is unknowable by anyone other than God, because God is infallible. If we could not use God, again I would say truth exists but its not expressible or verifiable. By the time it was uttered it would be libel to no longer be truth That is because the universe on the smallest scales relies on quantum mechanical laws. Events like uncertainty make truthful answers impossible to verify as such unless we are speaking in general terms. In large scales I think truth is difficult for the same reasons ie laws governing the universe ie special and general relativity work against truth. They certainly trash accuracy as do QM law. However when a general truth is needed yes it can be had but I don't think that's the kind of truth you are referencing.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
It seems to me that many RF posters believe there is no ultimate truth; or if there is, we cannot get to know it. IMO, Jesus Christ believed truth was attainable. He famously said: "you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (John 8:32)
Do you believe the truth exists and is available to those seeking for it? Are people afraid of the truth?

To tell you the truth: no.

Ciao

- viole
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
It seems to me that many RF posters believe there is no ultimate truth; or if there is, we cannot get to know it. IMO, Jesus Christ believed truth was attainable. He famously said: "you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (John 8:32)
Do you believe the truth exists and is available to those seeking for it? Are people afraid of the truth?

Of course Jesus said 'I am the truth' to Herod at his trial
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I do believe in truth, and I believe we each have it, regardless of ourselves. I don't know if anyone is afraid of it.
Thanks for your comments. How can we all have the truth if we believe in very different ideas and religious doctrines?
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
There is some truth in G-John, but not much.
I often wonder why Christians cling to G-John, Paul's letters, and those other letters.
Christians like comfy truth, but they shy away from hard, cold, facts, imo.
Thanks for your response. What hard, cold facts?
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Thanks for your response. What hard, cold facts?
Hi.....
Well, in a nutshell 'judge a tree by its fruits' version, Christians have committed such heinous, devious, deceiving, murderous, treacherous acts over two millennia, also I can't think of one Christian country which I could describe as 'heaven on earth'.
G-John does have some true anecdotes within, but jumbled into a crazy and stretched timeline as a result of the authors' complete ignorance of the TRUE story.
G-Mark, stripped of the Christian additions, exaggerations and alterations is much closer to the truth, but shows that Yeshua's mission was for working class Jews.

The truth will set you free, imo, from false hopes.

..just sayin'.....
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Thanks for your comments. How can we all have the truth if we believe in very different ideas and religious doctrines?
What we believe is the proposition, and everyone has a unique set of propositions. Propositions aren't the truth, they are just words/ideas. The answer to your question lies in the habitual mistake of words/ideas for the truth.

Looking at the world from the "inside," we tend to think that our thought is all there is. In a sense it is everything, because it's what we have to work with. It's all we have to work with: our thought represents everything about the real world. in each conscious moment we do a "take" of the world, and in that moment the thought of heat is heat, the thought of hunger is hunger, the thought of anger is anger, the thought of an isosceles triangle is an isosceles triangle. We forget that there's a real world behind our thought, and indulge our thought as the real world.

It's a world full of words/ideas, one for everything "thing" our thought has identified about the world, and that is from where we derive propositions. Some "things" have real world correspondents (hunger), and some don't (anger), but in indulging the world of thought as real, we blur the distinction between them. We can analyse a situation composed of any proposition, like hunger--what came before, repetitive incidences, similar conditions--and conclude that we have a cause and a solution for a problem. Let's go eat. And we can analyse a situation like anger in the same way, and, in doing so, we make anger something real, although it lacks a real-world correspondent.

That's what makes us most human: the capacity to reason (and the hubris that tells us that we are clever for it). In our forgetful state, we allow that the propositions we have worked with are us working with the real world. Because our solution works, we allow that the proposition be the truth, we allow that it represent the real world.

When I say that I believe in truth, I am not pointing at the propositions as truth (that "I believe in truth" is a proposition, so that would be an entirely circular thing to do). Truth is what informs words/ideas to accurately represent the real world. That means that it is something a step removed from the real world. As that world to each of us is composed in thought, composed in propositions, that places truth on a different level, a meta level in relation to the world. Truth is an abstract of thought, an integral part of our conscious relation to the world.
 
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