Is This Evidence Of Satan? Did He Write An Antibible? Is It Evolution?

[sooda]

Good link, but as I read it this does not specifically detail the origin of the vogue for biblical literalism.

My understanding, from a thread discussion a month or two ago with @Vouthon I think it was, is that the Reformation led to a new emphasis on rationalising Christianity, at the expense of the mystical element in it. It was this that indirectly led some Protestants to decide to take as axiomatic that every word of the bible must be true in a literal sense, so that then everything else could follow rationally from this axiom. I am not sure that this shift took place immediately. Sola Scriptura does not in itself imply biblical literalism, it seems to me.

What I have read is that sects such as the 7th Day Adventists took it up in the c.19th and from them, in c.20th N America, it spread widely. This is probably what @sooda has in mind.

Actually, I'm thinking of the Dallas Theological Seminary founded by Cyrus Scofield and the Moody Institute,

Ever heard of Billy Sunday.. He was born in 1862 and was the precursor to Billy Graham. They say he converted 300,000.

 

[exchemist]

Actually, I'm thinking of the Dallas Theological Seminary founded by Cyrus Scofield and the Moody Institute,

Ever heard of Billy Sunday.. He was born in 1862 and was the precursor to Billy Graham. They say he converted 300,000.

Ah yes now I remember, you mentioned them the other day, I think. But these guys didn't invent literalism, though no doubt you are right that they had a part to play in popularising it.

 

[sooda]

Ah yes now I remember, you mentioned them the other day, I think. But these guys didn't invent literalism, though no doubt you are right that they had a part to play in popularising it.

Dallas Theological Seminary has turned out hundreds and hundreds of fundamentalist preachers like Jimmy Swaggart, Falwell, Pat Robertson.

 

[Howard Is]

So, my questions is -- Is this evidence for Satan?

What if the Bible was written by Satan ?

That would be the Perfect Conspiracy !

Bwaahahaa !

 

[exchemist]

Dallas Theological Seminary has turned out hundreds and hundreds of fundamentalist preachers like Jimmy Swaggart, Falwell, Pat Robertson.

Well, maybe if one is looking for evidence of Satan at work..............er,............

 

[The Hammer]

Good link, but as I read it this does not specifically detail the origin of the vogue for biblical literalism.

My understanding, from a thread discussion a month or two ago with @Vouthon I think it was, is that the Reformation led to a new emphasis on rationalising Christianity, at the expense of the mystical element in it. It was this that indirectly led some Protestants to decide to take as axiomatic that every word of the bible must be true in a literal sense, so that then everything else could follow rationally from this axiom. I am not sure that this shift took place immediately. Sola Scriptura does not in itself imply biblical literalism, it seems to me.

What I have read is that sects such as the 7th Day Adventists took it up in the c.19th and from them, in c.20th N America, it spread widely. This is probably what @sooda has in mind.

You may be right; I always thought of Sola Scriptura as the precursor or even basis of literalism. But I am not a Theologian, just an aspiring Anthropologist.

 

[sooda]

Well, maybe if one is looking for evidence of Satan at work..............er,............

Scofield's reach was far and wide.. He changed American Protestantism.

 

[exchemist]

Normally, we do not discuss Satan. I think the only people who like to bring it up is The Satanic Temple.

I don't enjoy discussing it either, but this is a TRUTH I found. In the Bible, Satan has a rebellious personality and he relishes having the same power as God (not really), but he has great power.

He is considered the Father of Lies and he pulled the wool over Adam and Eve's eyes and took Adam's dominion of the world. He is called the "god of the world and the prince of the power of the air."

All of the contradictions to God's word and science cannot be coincidence. It also just does not apply to science, but moral values, and even how the world is supposed to end.

I do not know any other way than to think evolution opposes God. What part of it doesn't? For example, a key piece would be creation vs abiogenesis. You can't have one where we are created from the Earth in the ground and God's breath vs abiogenesis. We find abiogenesis does not happen scientifically.

But the scientific concept of abiogenesis does involve life being created from the Earth. If you think the cosmos follows an orderly pattern (commonly called "laws of nature") set by a creator, then those very same laws can cause life to arise from inanimate matter when the conditions are right. So there is no conflict between a scientific model of abiogenesis and the concept of a creator.

But to take Chapter 1 of Genesis literally, you have to explain all sort of silly things, my favourite being the ridiculous notion of there being "day" and "night" before the sun existed. It is basic considerations like this that show anyone with any brains that the Genesis account cannot be simply taken at face value. It has to be interpreted allegorically.

 

[exchemist]

You may be right; I always thought of Sola Scriptura as the precursor or even basis of literalism. But I am not a Theologian, just an aspiring Anthropologist.

Precursor, I am sure is right.

But I think, from what I have read, that it took a while. I don't think the main Protestant churches were ever literalist.

 

[sooda]

Precursor, I am sure is right.

But I think, from what I have read, that it took a while. I don't think the main Protestant churches were ever literalist.

They weren't literalist, but writers like Hal Lindsey and Tim Lahaye have made inroads even in mainstream Protestant churches.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Sorry this is long.

I ended up in a heated discussion with someone, whom I think was an atheist and evolutionist, who exclaimed birds came from dinosaurs. I said that I didn't think little, tiny birds evolved from great, big, gigantic dinosaurs and that Oregon State University research showed that a bird's lung development was different from a dinosaur's, i.e. a bird would not be able to breathe and fly if they had lungs like dinosaurs. He came back and insisted, "BIRDS ARE DINOSAURS!" and went on to explain in a rant like fashion. I looked at my six days of creation chart and saw that birds or flying animals were created on the 5th day while land animals were created on the 6th. Now, I didn't tell him this, but it dawned on me that whatever atheists/evolutionists believe contradicts what God stated in the first two books of Genesis.

So, my questions is -- Is this evidence for Satan? First, Satan doesn't want you to believe he exists, so people usually do not want proof of Satan nor does anyone even bring him up for discussion. Non-believers want proof of God when there isn't any proof for an unproveable God. When you end up discussing God with them, you find they usually blame God for something such as evil in the OT or why does he allow babies to suffer? Whatever evidence you present is not good enough. One atheist said if God opened the ground in front of him and gave him a brand new car of his choice, then he'll believe. Um... it takes faith... but you do not even get to that point.

What I am getting at using the Bible and science in regards to Satan is to show evidence that he exists. In the Bible and Genesis, we have God created the heavens and Earth from nothing, but evolutionary thinking says it was the big bang which caused it from nothing. Before that it was the eternal universe.

God created Adam and Eve as adult humans and animals as adult animals. Instead, the naysayers and evolutionists believey, no, we had the egg before the chicken and abiogenesis, so this is how life came into existence and evolved.

And so on. It turned out that everything I could think of between creation and atheist/evolutionary beliefs contradicted each other. All of these debates have come down throughout the centuries, so there could be no collaboration as to what the people who came up with the evolutionary hypothesis wrote. These writers were scientists in different fields of work and it was written at different times. There was no intent to disprove the Bible in their hypothesis and discoveries. It wasn't put together in a book like the Bible (took 1500 years), but if it was, then it was as if Satan had wrote an antiGenesis as what Evolution (since the 1850s with uniformitarianism and then Darwin's bood) has become today.

These contradictions goes beyond that, too. It isn't just evolution, but moral values such as not killing a fetus vs. abortion and a woman's rights, homosexuality vs. man and woman marriage, and even how the world is going to end -- global fire vs. AGW (old) or huge asteroid hits the earth causing a catastrophic chain reaction (new). It turns out that everything that God stated in the Bible is contradicted by Satan. Maybe that's just his rebellious nature and he can't help himself.

Thus, when you add all the contradictions up, is this evidence for Satan? Does this convince you that Satan is causing it? I found out in my law enforcement part of career -- bad stuff usually does not happen by coincidence. For example, there is a killing around 2 am in the morning and the head of a nearby statue is broken off. Then a week later, another killing and another head of a nearby statue is neatly cut off.

Here are some things that are opposite off the top of my head.

GOD >>>>> SATAN
Said it first in the Bible ( Bible can't change) >>>>> Said it throughout the years (hypothesis and theories can change)
Universe >>>>> Multiverse
Creation ex nihilo (supernatural creation in 6 days) >>>>> Universe ex nihilo, i.e. big bang (defies laws of physics, infinite temp and density, all is set up in 20 mins); Before this, it was eternal universe
6,000 yrs old Earth and universe >>>>> 4.5 B yrs old Earth and 13.7 B yrs old universe
Created Adam and Eve >>>>> Humans evolved from monkeys
Created birds 5th day; dinosaurs 6th day >>>>> birds evolved from <strikeout>reptile</strikeout> dinosaurs
Clear explanation of how universe and Earth formed and science backs it up >>>>> Wild hypothesis of infinitely hot and dense unseen particle called singularity; Some event called big bang triggered a cosmic expansion in microseconds that formed the basis for our universe; not clear explanation of what happened
Life can only create life >>>>> Life forms through abiogenesis (based on spontaneous generation that was proven false by creation scientist Dr. Louis Pasteur)
Started with void >>>>> Started with infinitely hot and dense unseen quantum particle
God is timeless and spaceless >>>>> Quantum particles pop in and out of existence
God is light, i.e. EMS or light >>>>> Things happen through dark energy, dark matter
Universe is bounded and has a center >>>>> Universe is boundless and does not have a center
Earth is special >>>>> There is nothing special about the Earth
Heaven (upward direction) >>>>> Hell (downward direction)

Sorry for the poor formatting. It did not take my spaces/tabs.

None of this is evidence for Satan. What it is evidence for is that the writers of the Bible simply didn't know very much about the natural world, and nothing at all about science. Thus, it is hardly surprising that what they wrote is at odds with our present understanding of both the natural world and science.

Not knowing something is never, ever, evidence for anything except not knowing.

 

[Howard Is]

. None of this is evidence for Satan. What it is evidence for is that the writers of the Bible simply didn't know very much about the natural world, and nothing at all about science. Thus, it is hardly surprising that what they wrote is at odds with our present understanding of both the natural world and science.

Not knowing something is never, ever, evidence for anything except not knowing.

Agreed.
And I thought I’d make your post readable

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Agreed.
And I thought I’d make your post readable

Thank you...I just noticed myself that I totally mucked that one up!

 

[RabbiO]

@Evangelicalhumanist -

A well made chocolate cake looks wonderful. It tastes good too. A slice of cake can add to a celebration. Sometimes it adds solace when one is down. Yes, chocolate cake is great.

The thing about chocolate cake, though is this. If you're looking to engage it in a meaningful dialogue, you'll invariably be disappointed.

I keep a very soft kippah available to cushion the blow when I feel the need to hit my head against a wall!

 

[james bond]

Satan is a metaphor for an evil inclination. ... and Satan as YOU describe him is a late Christian invention.

From where do you get this wrongness?

 

[sooda]

From where do you get this wrongness?

Christians changed Satan.. He was an angel controlled by God.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

@Evangelicalhumanist -

A well made chocolate cake looks wonderful. It tastes good too. A slice of cake can add to a celebration. Sometimes it adds solace when one is down. Yes, chocolate cake is great.

The thing about chocolate cake, though is this. If you're looking to engage it in a meaningful dialogue, you'll invariably be disappointed.

I keep a very soft kippah available to cushion the blow when I feel the need to hit my head against a wall!

Been missing your wisdom for a while...

 

[james bond]

No, what I am specifically stating is that your view of what is or is not possible is too narrow, and that relying solely on the fallible word (fallible meaning written and interpreted by men) of an unchangeable/un-revisable document is hubris.

How can it be when the Bible was written by different peoples in all walks of life at the writing and compiling took 1500 years to where it is today? We first had Judaism. Are you saying their OT was fallible?

Were there people who thought like you back then?

It sounds like you're just full of assertions for whatever reason.

I've heard it described as such from noted scholars in the recent past. It was based on stories from the times of Tower of Babel and by religious people who wrote as such, e.g. John D. Morris of ICR. In the past, I started another thread about it a couple years ago, but with that I couldn't state that Dr. Morris' word wasn't infallible -- What Happened at the Tower of Babel?.

However, having everything spoken by God being contradicted by Evolution is a different story since it cannot possibly be coincidence that God's word is in totality contradicted through the writings of secular scientists about Evolution. There was no way they could have colluded against the Bible. Now, that would be silly, but we have to look at all the possibilities. Again, we see that it was written by different men of science throughout the years since 1850. Thus, could it be that Evolution is Satan's Antibible in religious terms?

 

[sooda]

How can it be when the Bible was written by different peoples in all walks of life at the writing and compiling took 1500 years to where it is today? We first had Judaism. Are you saying their OT was fallible?

Were there people who thought like you back then?

It sounds like you're just full of assertions for whatever reason.

I've heard it described as such from noted scholars in the recent past. It was based on stories from the times of Tower of Babel and by religious people who wrote as such, e.g. John D. Morris of ICR. In the past, I started another thread about it a couple years ago, but with that I couldn't state that Dr. Morris' word wasn't infallible -- What Happened at the Tower of Babel?.

However, having everything spoken by God being contradicted by Evolution is a different story since it cannot possibly be coincidence that God's word is in totality contradicted through the writings of secular scientists about Evolution.

There was no way they could have colluded against the Bible. Now, that would be silly, but we have to look at all the possibilities. Again, we see that it was written by different men of science throughout the years since 1850. Thus, could it be that Evolution is Satan's Antibible in religious terms?

1500 years? Leviticus and Deuteronomy were written during and after the Babylonian exile.... followed by Genesis and Exodus.

The Tower of Babel is set 350 years after Noah's flood. .. but the real joke is that there are towers or Ziggurats all over the ME.

 

[james bond]

There is not one example in the Jewish Scriptures where any angel, Satan included, ever opposes God's will.

Where do you get your answers? Do you make them up as you read my posts?

Wrong. "In Jewish texts, the devil is sometimes an adversary and sometimes an embodiment of evil." -- Do Jews Believe in Satan? | My Jewish Learning.