Is this Gnosticism?

[Chevalier Violet]

I said to a Christian once: "we don't need scriptures. The word of God is written in our hearts, we need to study our hearts."

And he said, "oh that's a Gnostic position."

I said, I guess I'm a Gnostic then. What is going on? Is Christian Guy (CG) right here?

CV

 

[Halcyon]

I said to a Christian once: "we don't need scriptures. The word of God is written in our hearts, we need to study our hearts."

And he said, "oh that's a Gnostic position."

I said, I guess I'm a Gnostic then. What is going on? Is Christian Guy (CG) right here?

CV

He was probably using it as an insult since Gnostic, like Manichaean, has become synonymous with any heretical thinking.
This idea you give above can be found in Christian mysticism in general, liberal Christianity, and if you look carefully enough most orthodox Churches too. The idea of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit could be interpreted as the word of God in our hearts.

Believing in such a thing doesn't necessarily make you a Gnostic, although Gnostics held somewhat of a similar belief - you'd need to further espouse belief in such things as Gnosis for a start, and probably some form of Gnostic cosmology - see here for more information.

 

[Chevalier Violet]

He was probably using it as an insult since Gnostic, like Manichaean, has become synonymous with any heretical thinking.
This idea you give above can be found in Christian mysticism in general, liberal Christianity, and if you look carefully enough most orthodox Churches too. The idea of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit could be interpreted as the word of God in our hearts.

Believing in such a thing doesn't necessarily make you a Gnostic, although Gnostics held somewhat of a similar belief - you'd need to further espouse belief in such things as Gnosis for a start, and probably some form of Gnostic cosmology - see here for more information.

I don't believe it was an insult. Thx 4 the link (i'm typing w/ two pens because of wrist problems...)

 

[Random]

That one can arrive @ a direct understanding of and relationship with GOD through personal revelation and divine knowlege, minus intermediaries and mediators, is the core of gnosis.

Go with it, CV. You never know where the Path will lead...

The opinions of others are irrelevant: Truth is never a matter of opinion.

 

[Quiddity]

That one can arrive @ a direct understanding of and relationship with GOD through personal revelation and divine knowlege, minus intermediaries and mediators, is the core of gnosis.

Interesting....

 

[Scarlett Wampus]

I was told by a Catholic that the main reason Gnosticism was considered heretical (by that church at least) was its association with Docetism. Found out why here.

 

[Quiddity]

I was told by a Catholic that the main reason Gnosticism was considered heretical (by that church at least) was its association with Docetism. Found out why here.

That was part of it. It's probably not very productive to talk about "Gnostics" as though they were a denomination. More like a state of "spiritually advanced" Christians...at least that's how they thought of themselves.

 

[sandhill]

Another part of the problem is that too many people view Gnosticism as being a heresy of Christianity, and it isn't. It is a derivative of ancient Egyptian religion that is similar to Hermeticism, which has been demonstrated fairly well as being a Greek response to the older Egyptian system of henotheism. This view of Gnosticism is described at length in the doctoral thesis at :http://www.colba.net/~drmcb/Egyptian%20Gnosis/page 1.html

 

[A. Ben-Shema]

I said to a Christian once: "we don't need scriptures. The word of God is written in our hearts, we need to study our hearts."

And he said, "oh that's a Gnostic position."

I said, I guess I'm a Gnostic then. What is going on? Is Christian Guy (CG) right here?

CV

Yes, Gnosis (the Spiritual Knowledge of God) is within; just as Jesus said: "the Kingdom of God is within you." However, it requires a living Spiritual Master to reveal how one actually goes within to discover this Truth. This is the reason why so many Masters have come to Earth - Masters such as Melchizedek, Zarathustra, Krishna, Moses, Buddha, Jesus, Nanak, and so many others right up to our own day.

When one seeks and discovers a living Master who can reveal the Spiritual Kingdom within, and then becomes a disciple of the Master and receives initiation into the Divine Mysteries, and then experiences 'first-hand' the Spirit of God within, then, AND ONLY THEN, one is a GNOSTIC.

Peace & Love

 

[UnityNow101]

I was at one time inclined to lean more towards Gnosticism, found out I was not smart enough to understand all of the concepts, and disagreed with their stance on an evil Creator being at fault for mankind's woes. Gnosticism really interested me, but I could not get around the fact that they believed in more than one God, an evil Creator of the Old Testament and the Perfect Creator that sent Jesus Christ to reveal the unknown.

 

[Chevalier Violet]

I think it's pretty self-evident that there are a lot of definitions of it floating around. If we'd like to define it as a useful category (rather than a "heresy"), I would define it, for my own purposes, as the belief that when my heart disagrees with how people read the Bible or any other holy text, I should follow my heart. I think the idea is that the truth, the true way to live is within us. We do not require masters and teachers so long as we seek and so long as we listen to others and to our hearts.

This definition is my own, but I would like to know if anyone else out there uses the term this way.

I would also point out that this definition seems more etymologically sound as a theological definition, because gnosis comes from the Greek for knowledge (agnosticism means "without knowledge", and means that we are inherently without knowledge.) Gnosis is therefore the notion that we do inherently have knowledge.

Thoughts? How do you define this differently?

I realize that my definition does not mesh with that of the "heritics" of two millenia ago. I am not concerned with historical correctness but usefulness of a term.

CV

 

[Halcyon]

I was at one time inclined to lean more towards Gnosticism, found out I was not smart enough to understand all of the concepts, and disagreed with their stance on an evil Creator being at fault for mankind's woes. Gnosticism really interested me, but I could not get around the fact that they believed in more than one God, an evil Creator of the Old Testament and the Perfect Creator that sent Jesus Christ to reveal the unknown.

It's not quite that black and white.

Gnostics did indeed believe in one almighty God, but this God is spread across a vast Pleroma (fullness) of God composed of the Monad itself, but also various emanations (these can be though of as aspects) such as divine Wisdom, Mind, Forethought, Word etc. It's easier to understand this concept than the orthodox Trinity IMO, but it is similar. Valentinians counted 30 such emanations.

The Demiurge, who is usually considered the "evil God", is the manifestation of Ignorance, he could also be thought of as False Wisdom. He was the product of Sophia (Wisdom) emanating independantly of the rest of the fullness of God (Pleroma).
But, he could still be considered part of the Pleroma, and in fact some Gnostics such as the Basilideans worshipped a combination God of the Father/Mother (Monad) and the Demiurge in a form called Abrasax.

The Demiuge in several Gnostic systems was not evil, but mearly ignorant and foolish, unaware of the Pleroma above him, one of his epithets being Samael which means "Blind God".
At his birth he was imbued with a portion of his mothers power. He created the world as best he could and included his mothers power in its construction giving it life, but because he was flawed he created the world flawed, so we have death and suffering.

Christ being part of the Pleroma called the Logos (Word/Reason) of God and the partner of Sophia, descended to the world of the Demiurge to reclaim the lost power of Sophia trapped in the world by the unwitting Demiurge. He did this by teaching Gnosis, knowledge of the Pleroma, to humans - the beings in which most of Sophia's power had become trapped and that we now call Spirit. On reaching Gnosis the Spirit is released and returns to the Pleroma. If Gnosis is not reached the Spirit is reincarnated.
Some texts even have the Demiurge reaching Gnosis at the end of the world, and returning in full to the Pleroma.

 

[Halcyon]

I think it's pretty self-evident that there are a lot of definitions of it floating around. If we'd like to define it as a useful category (rather than a "heresy"), I would define it, for my own purposes, as the belief that when my heart disagrees with how people read the Bible or any other holy text, I should follow my heart. I think the idea is that the truth, the true way to live is within us. We do not require masters and teachers so long as we seek and so long as we listen to others and to our hearts.

I think that definition is fine, for use in a modern sense.

I would also point out that this definition seems more etymologically sound as a theological definition, because gnosis comes from the Greek for knowledge (agnosticism means "without knowledge", and means that we are inherently without knowledge.) Gnosis is therefore the notion that we do inherently have knowledge

Gnosis as a word in Greek is more akin to todays enlightenment, awakening, even Nirvana. Knowledge in the typical, mundane sense was episteme.

 

[A. Ben-Shema]

I think it's pretty self-evident that there are a lot of definitions of it floating around. If we'd like to define it as a useful category (rather than a "heresy"), I would define it, for my own purposes, as the belief that when my heart disagrees with how people read the Bible or any other holy text, I should follow my heart. I think the idea is that the truth, the true way to live is within us. We do not require masters and teachers so long as we seek and so long as we listen to others and to our hearts.

This definition is my own, but I would like to know if anyone else out there uses the term this way.

I would also point out that this definition seems more etymologically sound as a theological definition, because gnosis comes from the Greek for knowledge (agnosticism means "without knowledge", and means that we are inherently without knowledge.) Gnosis is therefore the notion that we do inherently have knowledge.

Thoughts? How do you define this differently?

I realize that my definition does not mesh with that of the "heritics" of two millenia ago. I am not concerned with historical correctness but usefulness of a term.

CV

I would agree that Gnosis is inherently within all mankind. As with the word 'in-tuition', i.e. learning from within. However, there is only one true definition of Gnosis, and that, quite simply, is: Spiritual Knowledge, or Knowledge of God. How one achieves this inner Divine Knowledge is another story.

Love & Peace

 

[michel]

The more I find out about gnosticism, the more convinced I am already one. I think I will have to change my "religious title" to accurately descibe myself.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I think it's pretty self-evident that there are a lot of definitions of it floating around. If we'd like to define it as a useful category (rather than a "heresy"), I would define it, for my own purposes, as the belief that when my heart disagrees with how people read the Bible or any other holy text, I should follow my heart. I think the idea is that the truth, the true way to live is within us. We do not require masters and teachers so long as we seek and so long as we listen to others and to our hearts.

This definition is my own, but I would like to know if anyone else out there uses the term this way.

I would also point out that this definition seems more etymologically sound as a theological definition, because gnosis comes from the Greek for knowledge (agnosticism means "without knowledge", and means that we are inherently without knowledge.) Gnosis is therefore the notion that we do inherently have knowledge.

Thoughts? How do you define this differently?

I realize that my definition does not mesh with that of the "heritics" of two millenia ago. I am not concerned with historical correctness but usefulness of a term.

CV

I would not bother too much about the concept of Heresy...
Heresy only relates to a particular faith or belief you differ from.
It is never an absolute.

Gnosticism is to day equally ill defined, as we have been to long separated from the original practitioners.
The catholic Church did a very good job in suppressing it.
There are few direct links between the present thoughts and practices with those of ancient times.
It is not so much that we are wrong, as that we have lost the tradition, and continuous link of teaching.

 

[worshiper]

i dont know anything about gnosticism. any suggsestions on where to find a good resource?

 

[A. Ben-Shema]

i dont know anything about gnosticism. any suggsestions on where to find a good resource?

May I suggest my book site, which also includes a radio interview that explains much about genuine Gnosis. Just click HERE.

Peace & Love

 

[worshiper]

May I suggest my book site, which also includes a radio interview that explains much about genuine Gnosis. Just click HERE.

Peace & Love

i've heard your interview. and i would say its interesting. but i noticed that you quote mostly in the bible.

1) you said that you have looked everywhere for the truth. i'd like to know your views on the Quran. since you said there is no bible in its original form which is aramaic (if i'm not mistaken). have you read the Quran? what do you think of it?

2) i still cant figure out what Gnosticism is all about. can someone tell me in layman's term?

 

[Halcyon]

1) you said that you have looked everywhere for the truth. i'd like to know your views on the Quran. since you said there is no bible in its original form which is aramaic (if i'm not mistaken). have you read the Quran? what do you think of it?

Aramaic? I think the original NT was all written in Koine Greek.

As an aside, and since you bring up the Qur'an, Gnosticism wasn't just limited to Christianity, there were Islamic, Jewish and pagan Gnostics too.

2) i still cant figure out what Gnosticism is all about. can someone tell me in layman's term?

We don't know God,
God can be known through Gnosis (read as enlightenment),
Gnosis of God brings salvation.