Is this Old Testament passage "hate speech"?

[exchemist]

The following is not allowed in Steam games:

I wanted to include the following passage in my game:

It seems to involve violence based on ethnicity though I don't think those ethnicities still exist. I hope it doesn't count as hate speech. What do Christians think?

Well, it's advocating what in modern terms we would call genocide, or ethnic cleansing. But there's quite a bit of savagery in the Old Testament, plus a lot more doubtful stuff about claiming ownership of land, neither of which are considered noble preoccupations in Christianity, of course. One should keep in mind Christianity is based on the teaching of Christ, in the New Testament.

If you choose to quote this kind of brutal thing today, out of its scriptural context, you must expect people to wonder about your motives for doing so. Perhaps especially right now, with this war going on in the Holy Land.

I don't recommend it.

 

[excreationist]

Well, it's advocating what in modern terms we would call genocide, or ethnic cleansing. But there's quite a bit of savagery in the Old Testament, plus a lot more doubtful stuff about claiming ownership of land, neither of which are considered noble preoccupations in Christianity, of course. One should keep in mind Christianity is based on the teaching of Christ, in the New Testament.

If you choose to quote this kind of brutal thing today, out of its scriptural context, you must expect people to wonder about your motives for doing so. Perhaps especially right now, with this war going on in the Holy Land.

I don't recommend it.

I wanted to raise awareness of that passage. In a "playcentric game design" university subject that passage was one of the focuses as a "serious game" (having a purpose other than entertainment). The original "player experience goal" was to be shocked but now it is to feel "conflicted". If you successfully finish a cleansing quest you are praised as a "good obedient boy". You are able to worship the foreign gods though and if you do the soldiers seek you out and kill you....

 

[exchemist]

I wanted to raise awareness of that passage. In a "playcentric game design" university subject that passage was one of the focuses as a "serious game" (having a purpose other than entertainment). The original "player experience goal" was to be shocked but now it is to feel "conflicted". If you successfully finish a cleansing quest you are praised as a "good obedient boy". You are able to worship the foreign gods though and if you do the soldiers seek you out and kill you....

Fair enough. I know nothing of the world of gaming, but I'm not a bit surprised that the sentiments in that passage fall foul of certain commercial operators' rules. While what you do in a university context is not commercial, if you use commercial platforms you have to expect to abide by their rules, I suppose.

I'm not quite sure why you wanted a response to your question from Christians, specifically. It seems to me not a matter of religious persuasion but simple pragmatism.

 

[excreationist]

Fair enough. I know nothing of the world of gaming, but I'm not a bit surprised that the sentiments in that passage fall foul of certain commercial operators' rules. While what you do in a university context is not commercial, if you use commercial platforms you have to expect to abide by their rules, I suppose.

I'm not quite sure why you wanted a response to your question from Christians, specifically. It seems to me not a matter of religious persuasion but simple pragmatism.

Well Christians are more likely to believe that the passage doesn't involve hate speech..... then perhaps I could use their reasoning to defend against the verse possibly being considered hate speech. BTW in Steam you can have explicit sex scenes in games including semen. They also have games in where you can injure and kill innocent people involving blood and gore.

 

[exchemist]

Well Christians are more likely to believe that the passage doesn't involve hate speech..... then perhaps I could use their reasoning to defend against the verse possibly being considered hate speech. BTW in Steam you can have explicit sex scenes in games including semen. They also have games in where you can injure and kill innocent people involving blood and gore.

Sure but presumably they want to avoid this sort of thing:

 

[Brickjectivity]

What about the babies? Also it says to kill everything that breathes so that would include animals...

The inclusions of animals helps show that this isn't about genetics but is about the breath: specifically it is about the ideals and actions of these groups which are not expounded to us. Through archeology we know a few things about them, such as rather than being massacred the twelve Canaanite groups merge and become the Israelites. It is common for things to be described strangely in scripture: like the burning bush scene. The burning bush has a fire that doesn't actually burn things. Moses takes off his shoes, and presumably he stands on hot ground or fire that does not burn his feet. The logic does not follow: the ground is on fire, so it is holy, so he must take off his shoes. Similarly the massacre does not actually kill anyone just like the fire does not actually burn anything. The LORD is called a 'Consuming fire', yet the bush is not burned. It is a writing device. Therefore its probably not hate speech though in the mouths of evil people it becomes hate speech. Similarly if we quoted things out of Tom Sawyer these might be taken for hate speech though that book is not hate speech. The book is in fact against hate.

In Christian scriptures there is a practice of describing peaceful actions as more effective than war by couching them in warlike terms. For example in Revelation Jesus has a sword coming out of his mouth, and that is his warfare. There's an NT scripture that describes the armor of God as Truth and Faith and Salvation. Why these warlike reverse-terms, and from whence comes this reverse semantic practice? From Judaism usage of peace as a triumphant victor most likely. Christian tradition could be one of the mystery cults derived in that first century, however it gets its ideas about peace from Judaism which has a long tradition of using previously established stories and remaking them. For example Noah is a story against war, but it is an imitation of the story of Gilgamesh that is in praise of war is probably used to help recruit young men to war. They take the story and change it.

No you cannot show babies being killed in your game. Nobody is going to allow that.

 

[excreationist]

No you cannot show babies being killed in your game. Nobody is going to allow that.

Well in my university prototype assignment presentation I said:

You have to kill wandering animals, wandering toddlers who have long screams, and fleeing adults including mothers holding babies..... you are invading the promised land and need to kill everything that breathes including all of the babies and animals.

The two female assessors didn't seem to have a problem with that though one had a problem with the animals being killed (she loves her pet birds).
Note that Christians seem to think it was moral for babies to be killed in that passage.... also they are very cartoony like Minecraft.

 

[Eddi]

I'm thinking of just removing the sentence listing the six ethnicities

I think that's the solution to your problem

 

[Brickjectivity]

Well in my university prototype assignment presentation I said:

You have to kill wandering animals, wandering toddlers who have long screams, and fleeing adults including mothers holding babies..... you are invading the promised land and need to kill everything that breathes including all of the babies and animals.

The two female assessors didn't seem to have a problem with that though one had a problem with the animals being killed (she loves her pet birds).
Note that Christians seem to think it was moral for babies to be killed in that passage.... also they are very cartoony like Minecraft.

I think the Christians you refer to are mostly protestant. I think the catholics invented orphanages (around 400 C.E. by wikipedia).

A lot of people, today, believe that humanity has risen above the past. It doesn't seem so to me, yet. The world is recently very improved, and its too early to call it a humanitarian win. It could just be a fluke. Some believe that we are forever improved though. Societies repeatedly fail to deal with questions about the status of babies and children, whether they are property, full humans, part humans, good, bad. Some leave unwanted babies out to die. Some only consider them human after a certain age. Some consider them adults complete with drivers license when they are a single cell. The conversation about it is still happening and keeps happening everywhere every century.

Cartoony like minecraft will make it a lot less gruesome.

 

[excreationist]

No you cannot show babies being killed in your game. Nobody is going to allow that.

I was rewatching the footage of the assessors regarding my top-down game prototype - one said:

You can't always see the details of the characters. He talks about this level being particularly shocking because you're killing babies in mothers' arms. I couldn't see that. Maybe I could if I was actually playing that. They all just looked like generic characters. He might need to add in some baby cries or something.
....
Some baby cries might add to your atmosphere...

 

[Soapy]

I was rewatching the footage of the assessors regarding my top-down game prototype - one said:

Babies (Jedi padawan) were killed in droves in Star Wars. Every child showing trait of Jedi’ism.

This is the idea of killing everyone infused with an deeply ingrained undesirable trait - in respect of the tribes named by God these people even from birth were EVIL. Our problem is that we cannot judge EVIL to the extent that God does and so we cannot destroy as Will we will - but if GOD INSTRUCTS US then it is perfectly legal and right.

I recognise this thread is bound up in a game so the justification for destroying animals and babies should be explained by way of showing that their Non-destruction would otherwise cause devastating EVIL to grow and persist in the world… rather like destroying branch, trunk, leaf and root of every Japanese Knotweed found outside of Japan!!!

 

[paarsurrey]

The following is not allowed in Steam games:

I wanted to include the following passage in my game: [Deuteronomy 20:16-17
But what about the cities the Lord your God is giving you as your own? Kill everything that breathes in those cities. Completely destroy them. Wipe out the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites. That’s what the Lord your God commanded you to do.]

It seems to involve violence based on ethnicity though I don't think those ethnicities still exist. I hope it doesn't count as hate speech. What do Christians think?

It is most certainly if not definitely a hate speech, Moses could not have written it, please, right?

Regards

 

[Twilight Hue]

An interesting quote by a Christian on another messageboard:

I would gladly refer them to Westboro Baptist Church and then reiterate what they think about it.

 

[paarsurrey]

Is this Old Testament passage "hate speech"?​

The Bible tells us that God was going to both judge the Canaanites for the evils they were doing and to give their land to His chosen people.
God did not want His people to intermarry with them or be influenced by them and their religions so that they also would not have to be judged by their God and King whom they had entered into an agreement with.
The Israelites did not do what He wanted and were influenced and were judged by God.
So it was both God's love and God's judgement which Deut 20:17-17 is talking about.
As to whether people would think it is hate speech in your game: Probably they would. Even people who know what it is about and so should know better, say it is hate speech by a hateful God or words put in the mouth of a non existent God by the Israelites.

God was going to both judge the Canaanites for the evils they were doing and to give their land to His chosen people.

Is it the crafting of the land grabbers, as G-d is Judge of everybody not of the Canaanites only, please, right?

Regards

 

[Brian2]

Is this Old Testament passage "hate speech"?​

Is it the crafting of the land grabbers, as G-d is Judge of everybody not of the Canaanites only, please, right?

Regards

If you don't believe the Bible it is anything you want,

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The following is not allowed in Steam games:

I wanted to include the following passage in my game:

It seems to involve violence based on ethnicity though I don't think those ethnicities still exist. I hope it doesn't count as hate speech. What do Christians think?

I would say that it is hate speech. There's a reason why Canadian hate speech laws had to make a special exemption for religious texts.

And those ethnicities still exist for the most part, even though they don't match up with modern states.

 

[paarsurrey]

If you don't believe the Bible it is anything you want,

So, one doesn't know that G-d is the Judge of every person/community/race/ethnicity/nation, right?

Regards

 

[excreationist]

And those ethnicities still exist for the most part, even though they don't match up with modern states.

Where are the Canaanites today?

Answer (1 of 4): The Canaanites, or Israelis, or Jews, are spread around the globe; many in America, some in Canada, many Northern Europe; in WW I I, as you know, Hitler had 6 milluon killed, separately from guys, Poles, sick /frail elderly, Poles, defective children, as hr saw them. As you know,...

www.quora.com

This says:

The Canaanites evolved into Israelites, Phoenicians, Edomites, Moabites, and Ammonites.

Of these five Canaanite groups, only the Israelites still exist

It seems to be saying that the original Canaanite ethnicity no longer exists... (while the Jews have maintained the same identity for a long time) BTW if Israelites came from Canaanites does it mean that God wants those Israelites to be killed based on those Bible verses about Canaanites, etc?