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Is this prophecy about Jesus?

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djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
12jtartar said:
Have we not seen an increase of troubles on earth since 1914, WW1. The prophecy in Daniel 4 ending in 1914, was no coincidence!!!
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Dan 4:24 (ESVST) 24 this is the interpretation, O king:It is a decree of the Most High, which has come upon my lord the king,
Dan 4:28 (ESVST) 28 All this came upon King Nebuchadnezzar.
Dan 4:32-33 (ESVST) 33 Immediately the word was fulfilled against Nebuchadnezzar.

Where does it say this prophecy in Daniel 4 will be fulfilled twice? According to Daniel, the prophecy had been fulfilled immediately.
 
12jtartar

12jtartar

Active Member
Premium Member
djhwoodwerks,
In the first place, almost all of Daniel is prophecy. Many prophecies have more than one fulfillment, some three.
There is also precident for using a day for a year, Dan 9:24-27, the prophecy about the coming of the Messiah, in the first century. Then also Num 14:33,34, Eze 4:6.
Consider the wording at Dan 4:22, about how great Nebuchadnezzar had become. Then notice verse 4:17, where the scripture states that God is the Most High ruler in the Kingdom of mankind and that He will give it to the lowliest of men. This lowliest of men was speaking about Jesus, who becomes the King over mankind. If you want to see this clearly read Isa chapter 53.
In this prophecy, a period of 2,520 years, or 7X360, was a symbol for the time that the Kingdom would be set up again, for God had allowed the Kingdom to be stopped by Nebuchadnezzar in the year 607BC. It is definitely not an accident that the 2,520 year period would end at 1914. The beginning of the Kingdom was to see wars, first in heaven, Rev 12:7-10,12, also, Rev 6:2-8. As we all know, WW1 started in 1914, and we have seen all the troubles mentioned by Jesus at, Matt 24:7-14. This date started the time of the end, 1914, and is called the appointed time of the nations, at Luke 21:24, which is the 2,520 years that the Gentiles would have the upper authority over God's people, as mentioned at Eze 21:24-27, which is telling about the time that The Kingdom of God was chopped down, and tells of the one coming, whose has the legal right, who is Jesus.
The Bible is sententious, and wonderful in it's harmony, as years of Bible study will amaze anyone with a good heart.
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
12jtartar said:
Consider the wording at Dan 4:22, about how great Nebuchadnezzar had become. Then notice verse 4:17, where the scripture states that God is the Most High ruler in the Kingdom of mankind and that He will give it to the lowliest of men. This lowliest of men was speaking about Jesus, who becomes the King over mankind.
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Your wrong on this, and nit a credible scholar in the world will back you on this. It is unsubstantiated based on want and need, not any credible historical knowledge.
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
12jtartar said:
The Bible is sententious, and wonderful in it's harmony, as years of Bible study will amaze anyone with a good heart.
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Study is good. But only if one does so in a credible university.

Learning apologetics and only theology, is not a credible education that applies to history or what really happened in the past.

And it also ruins a proper interpretation of any religious text.
 
M

Mountain_Climber

Active Member
djhwoodwerks said:
I was contemplating that possibility, but, this is the way I am looking at it,

2Sa 7:11-16 (ESVST) . 12 When your days are fulfilled and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring after you, who shall come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son. When he commits iniquity, I will discipline him with the rod of men, with the stripes of the sons of men, 15 but my steadfast love will not depart from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away from before you. 16 And your house and your kingdom shall be made sure forever before me. Your throne shall be established forever."
The highlighted verses are prophecy about Jesus. I'm wondering why God would start with a prophecy about Jesus, then talk about other men, then back to Jesus all in the same prophecy.

Believe me, I am a firm believer that Jesus lived a perfect life, how else could He have fulfilled the Mosaic Law. But this has me befuddled!
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Because the one new man which constitutes Jesus bodily presence upon this earth begins yet needing to be cleansed of it's sins. That body needs much correction. And in this way Jesus is yet continuing to take the sins of the world to himself, yet having to apply the ransom sacrifice to men.

This relates to what I have harped on as being the correct understanding of what Paul speaks in 2 Corinthians chapter 5.

2 Corinthians 5:1-3 "For we know that if the earthly house of our tabernacle be dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens. For verily in this we groan, longing to be clothed upon with our habitation which is from heaven: if so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked."

Our weak minds want to see Paul as there speaking of our individual bodies of flesh but he is not. He is speaking of the figurative body of the one new man in Christ: Ephesians 2:15 "having abolished in the flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that he might create in himself of the two one new man, so making peace.."

We can see that in the comparison made in 2 Corinthians 5:1 "For we know that if the earthly house of our tabernacle be dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens."

The comparison is that the present, "earthly house of our tabernacle", is contrasted to one which awaits us is, "a house not made with hands." Thus this shows that the house being spoken of as yet separating us from being forever with the Lord is a house which was made with human hands.

And we see that house being built with the help of human hands in 1 Corinthians chapter 3.

1 Corinthians 3:3 for ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you jealousy and strife, are ye not carnal, and do ye not walk after the manner of men?
4 For when one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not men?
5 What then is Apollos? and what is Paul? Ministers through whom ye believed; and each as the Lord gave to him.
6 I planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
7 So then neither is he that planteth anything, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: but each shall receive his own reward according to his own labor.
9 For we are God's fellow-workers: ye are God's husbandry, God's building.

There at 1 Corinthians 3 this is that one new man yet under construction and that construction is having to be done yet in this corruptible tent of all mankind, as it takes time for man to build incorruptible into their spirit through association with God's holy and incorruptible spirit.

I have not been joking when I have said that it appears that Jehovah's Witnesses may be the closest to seeing this but have not yet gone the way. They as all of us need to first get totally rid of this illusion that any man goes literally to live in heaven in individual changed spirit bodies.

Having been given this understanding, for me it is like watching a contest between all the claimed Christian religions to see which one will win that contest by being the first as a group to see this spiritual reality.
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Tumah said:
I'm not sure if context means anything to you as a Christian. But I'd just like to point out that since it was Solomon who built the Temple, we can conclusively say that the "He" and "his" in verse 13 is referring to Solomon. And since no other person is introduced between verses 13 and verse 14, we can conclude that the "him" and "he" of verse 14 is likewise referring to Solomon.
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Context? Who needs context?
Tumah said:
I have absolutely 0% understanding how in the world you can introduce Jesus into a prophecy that is pretty clearly referring to Solomon. I mean, I've seen you guys do it all the time. It just never makes any sense to me.
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Sense? Who needs sense?
 
M

Mountain_Climber

Active Member
Jayhawker Soule said:
Context? Who needs context?
Sense? Who needs sense?
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Tumah is correct that those words first applied to Solomon. But I suspect you know that.

The new nation that God has been creating must be able to be declared righteous of God on the basis of faith on the part of every single one of it's members.

If you work just a bit at seeing it, you will be able to see that the nation was judged as a whole unit to show that no natural nation of men could prove righteous and therefore only a remnant of faithful individuals would be chosen to be part of the true Israel of God, just as out of all nations of men.

The true Israel of God is a spiritual nation based upon the circumcised heart through the righteousness of faith. It was never possible for it to be any other way.

Romans 9:6-8 "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."

Paul as a Jew and an ex-Pharisee was closer to the time when that information could be more solidly attained. He is far more trustworthy than any of our modern day scholars with their swelled heads.
 
Jayhawker Soule

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Mountain_Climber said:
1 Peter 2:5 ...
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<yawn>
7.2.2 Author

A number of considerations, however, speak strongly against Petrine authorship: ...

I Peter is thus a pseudepigraphical writing, permeated and shaped by early Christian traditions that were attributes to Peter and Silvanus by the circle of early Christian tradents in which they were handed on.

- source
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e.g., more 2nd-hand apologetics.
​
</yawn>
 
D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
djhwoodwerks said:
2Sa 7:11-17 (ESVST) . Moreover, the Lord declares to you that the Lord will make you a house. 12 When your days are fulfilled and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring after you, who shall come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son. "When he commits iniquity, I will discipline him with the rod of men, with the stripes of the sons of men," 15 but my steadfast love will not depart from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away from before you. 16 And your house and your kingdom shall be made sure forever before me. Your throne shall be established forever. '" 17 In accordance with all these words, and in accordance with all this vision, Nathan spoke to David. (emphasis mine)

I'm anxious to hear your thoughts. I believe it's referring to Jesus.
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Nope.:thumbsup:
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
Mountain_Climber said:
Paul as a Jew and an ex-Pharisee was closer to the time when that information could be more solidly attained. He is far more trustworthy than any of our modern day scholars with their swelled heads.
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Not true.


Pauls Judaism is heavily debated. He was a Hellenistic jew who resembles a proselyte to Judaism more then a cultural Isarelite


His status an a Pharisee has never been determined with any degree of certainty.


He is not trustworthy, and you would need to know what rhetorical prose actually is to understand the word trust in this context.

Only 7 of his letters/text is attributed to his community. These 7 were not solely his epistles as there were other others involved often named in the epistle header.


The other epistles/text were not his communities, so you can throw trust out the window. They were probably followers of his who carried out his developed traditions after his death.
 
M

Mountain_Climber

Active Member
outhouse said:
Not true.


Pauls Judaism is heavily debated. He was a Hellenistic jew who resembles a proselyte to Judaism more then a cultural Isarelite


His status an a Pharisee has never been determined with any degree of certainty.


He is not trustworthy, and you would need to know what rhetorical prose actually is to understand the word trust in this context.

Only 7 of his letters/text is attributed to his community. These 7 were not solely his epistles as there were other others involved often named in the epistle header.


The other epistles/text were not his communities, so you can throw trust out the window. They were probably followers of his who carried out his developed traditions after his death.
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That is a common opinion.

I hope you don't mind if I choose to disagree? :)
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
TheInfiniteLight said:
This passage is about Solomon but it relates to Jesus in the way that Jesus comes from the line of David, however, there is no iniquity within Jesus; for Jesus is sinless.
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I believe the iniquity is attributed in that Jesus takes on the sins of us all and the punishment for them. I believe "with stripes" certainly suggests the lashing that Jesus received.
 
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