Is This Sexist?

[Saint Frankenstein]

There really is artifice.

Oh, I didn't see your edit. Yeah, it's just a social construct.

 

[dust1n]

Hey Sum,

Replace the word feminine with emasculating, and you're golden buddy.

No one likes to be told what qualities they possess by someone else, and everyone loves someone who self-deprecates for the sake of humor.


And no, I didn't see it as sexist.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

So untrue claims of differences, whether or not offensive or superiority-based, is racist/sexist?

 

[dust1n]

So untrue claims of differences, whether or not offensive or superiority-based, is racist/sexist?

Nah. That's called wrong. Being racist or sexist is showing animosity, intentionally being a douche, wrongly judging people on race or gender whether conscious or not.

I mean... how far does being misinformed exonerate one from crossing the racist line? Racist things are usually not done by people who identify as racist.

 

[Penumbra]

If you're going to posit differences, you need to make sure those differences are actually real.

^This.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Nah. That's called wrong. Being racist or sexist is showing animosity, intentionally being a douche, wrongly judging people on race or gender whether conscious or not.

I mean... how far does being misinformed exonerate one from crossing the racist line? Racist things are usually not done by people who identify as racist.

I agree, yet it seemed to be implied by others.

 

[Penumbra]

Yes its sexist and yes its racist to claim their are races period.

For example define the white race or the black race and what other races do you see in this world. My friend is African married to an Irish person what race are their two kids. I just call them friends and see them as human as me and my kids. By the way I am of European descent and my wife Latin American. I have 2 kids as well. Do my kids have a specific race.

It would be important to know the ancestral region of a person if a health provider is performing a blood test for vitamin D, as an example. Not taking that ancestral region into account will mean an inaccurate test result.

And the shorthand for saying that is that if the blood test is for a white person and a blood test is for a black person, the results will be different and that difference of "race" needs to be known for an accurate result.

Seems to me this whole "race" argument is a semantics issue. Are there some minor biologically notable differences between people from different regions? Yes. Are people from different regions noticeably different in appearance? Yes. For health providers and demographers, should there be a convenient method to identify the general region of someone's ancestry? Yes. Can people be cleanly grouped into actual "races"? No. Is the difference between people of different regions genetically significant overall? No.

 

[dust1n]

I agree, yet it seemed to be implied by others.

Perhaps I'm more forgiving of peoples stupid comments.

 

[dust1n]

It would be important to know the ancestral region of a person if a health provider is performing a blood test for vitamin D, as an example. Not taking that ancestral region into account will mean an inaccurate test result.

And the shorthand for saying that is that if the blood test is for a white person and a blood test is for a black person, the results will be different and that difference of "race" needs to be known for an accurate result.

Sounds like it is far more important for it to be known the nature of the specific genotype that is referenced in the article, while race remains a poor statistical correlation and inadequate means for timely diagnosis.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Perhaps I'm more forgiving of peoples stupid comments.

I respect that.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

So untrue claims of differences, whether or not offensive or superiority-based, is racist/sexist?

It doesn't have to be based on animosity, but based on culturally appropriated ignorance.

It's one of the ways that sexism and racism have been able to perpetuate in history, since if there is a charge of sexism or racism, people believe that they're assumed to be brutes attacking somebody else.

"That's a racist/sexist thing to say!"

"Whoa, whoa, whoa....can you calm down there? I didn't mean any harm. Why would you think I'm attacking you?"

.

.

.

And there lies one of the barriers to education. People erroneously think a charge of racism or sexism automatically equates to a personal attack. But instead, it's most often an indicator of institutional bigotry. One doesn't have to be personally attacked to show frustration or anger.

It isn't sexist to say that men have higher levels of testosterone.

It IS sexist to say that testosterone in men shows they are better suited to be soldiers and to kill people.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

How Emma Stone Handles Andrew Garfield's Everyday Sexism Will Make You Smile | moviepilot.com

I don't see how it's sexist. While I can see how it can be viewed as stereotypical, it's not at all biased or against femininity.

My main problem with his comment is that it's no longer accurate. I doubt most younger women learn what used to be traditionally women-oriented skills anymore, such as sewing, cooking, ironing, etc. I do most of the cooking in our house, and I'm the only one who can either sew or iron with any skill, and I know a number of other couples where the situation is the same.

I suspect most of this is a result of the fact that boys and girls aren't really raised any differently now - they're both raised to go to school and get careers, which often leaves no time for learning basic life skills. I've also gotten the sense from many younger women that they view learning such skills as somehow demeaning, since they've been traditionally seen as female tasks. There's almost an underlying current that being a feminist is incompatible with doing someone's laundry or ironing a shirt.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

It IS sexist to say that testosterone in men shows they are better suited to be soldiers and to kill people.

Not if you can provide reasonable evidence that higher levels of testosterone are correlated with attributes which contribute to someone being a better soldier and killer.

 

[dust1n]

I respect that.

It'd be worthy of respect if it were grammatically correct.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

My main problem with his comment is that it's no longer accurate. I doubt most younger women learn what used to be traditionally women-oriented skills anymore, such as sewing, cooking, ironing, etc. I do most of the cooking in our house, and I'm the only one who can either sew or iron with any skill, and I know a number of other couples where the situation is the same.

I know a mix of couples where the husband knows how to sew, cook, and do laundry as well. And there's also a healthy mix of couples where I've seen husband do the majority of the daily indoor tasks.

I suspect most of this is a result of the fact that boys and girls aren't really raised any differently now - they're both raised to go to school and get careers, which often leaves no time for learning basic life skills. I've also gotten the sense from many younger women that they view learning such skills as somehow demeaning, since they've been traditionally seen as female tasks. There's almost an underlying current that being a feminist is incompatible with doing someone's laundry or ironing a shirt.

Not necessarily. There's a knitting bee trying to be started at our local feminist group. The only criticism I've heard (and that I feel) toward a woman knowing how to do "woman's work" is when the underlying current is that she must be the one to do it if the choice is between her and a man.

Not if you can provide reasonable evidence that higher levels of testosterone are correlated with attributes which contribute to someone being a better soldier and killer.

Okay. Is there reasonable evidence? I haven't seen any at this point, which is why I believe that statement qualifies as sexist. As has been said before, if one is going to posit differences, those differences damn well better be overwhelmingly true.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Sewing is a feminine thing? Dang... I need to be more feminine, then, because I have clothes that could use such femininity.

Yes, I think his comments are sexist because they seem to be based on notions of prescribed gender roles, which I regard as sexist and harmful in many cases.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

INot necessarily. There's a knitting bee trying to be started at our local feminist group. The only criticism I've heard (and that I feel) toward a woman knowing how to do "woman's work" is when the underlying current is that she must be the one to do it if the choice is between her and a man.

That's certainly a valid view. However, this isn't the attitude I'm talking about or experiencing. I've actually heard more than one women, all in their 20's, talk about how they don't do those tasks because it's demeaning. Some of these are the same one's that have their husbands/boyfriends do it, because it is somehow not demeaning for men to do it - I guess since there isn't a history of these tasks being associated with men being subservient.

Okay. Is there reasonable evidence? I haven't seen any at this point, which is why I believe that statement qualifies as sexist. As has been said before, if one is going to posit differences, those differences damn well better be overwhelmingly true.

Testosterone increases aggression, and on that basis alone, it seems to be a significant advantage for someone whose job is to kill other human beings. Besides I think there are a whole host of other reasons why men make more effective killers than women.

 

[dawny0826]

How Emma Stone Handles Andrew Garfield's Everyday Sexism Will Make You Smile | moviepilot.com

I don't see how it's sexist. While I can see how it can be viewed as stereotypical, it's not at all biased or against femininity.

Another similar question arises - is it racist to believe there are differences between races yet without discriminating anyone? Let's say someone believes in equality for black and white people, not believing one to be superior to the other, yet at the same time believes that black people have certain traits that whites do not and vice versa.

I don't think his comments sexist. We are each entitled to our own opinions as to what comprises femininity and masculinity. I'm of the opinion that there are specific characteristics that really are typically associated with a certain gender.

Mere opinion shouldn't be problematic unless it drives oppression in some way. His comments were clearly not negative or oppressive.

 

[dawny0826]

Sewing is a feminine thing? Dang... I need to be more feminine, then, because I have clothes that could use such femininity.

Yes, I think his comments are sexist because they seem to be based on notions of prescribed gender roles, which I regard as sexist and harmful in many cases.

I associate sewing with feminine characteristics.

Within my peer group, I've never known a man who sews. The women in my life, however, sew and quilt.

I'm actually utilizing "feminity" correctly in the context of my experiences - as sewing is a hobby enjoyed exclusively by women in my life.

In no way would I devalue a man for sewing, because I perceive it to be a more feminine hobby. I assure you, I am not a sexist.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I associate sewing with feminine characteristics.

Within my peer group, I've never known a man who sews. The women in my life, however, sew and quilt.

I'm actually utilizing "feminity" correctly in the context of my experiences - as sewing is a hobby enjoyed exclusively by women in my life.

In no way would I devalue a man for sewing, because I perceive it to be a more feminine hobby. I assure you, I am not a sexist.

I think it's important to differentiate between inherent gender-based differences and culturally ingrained ones. I wouldn't say it would be impossible for both to overlap, but in this case, I'm not aware of any biological difference between males and females that makes the latter more inclined toward liking sewing or being particularly efficient at it. So it seems to me that sewing supposedly inherently being a primarily "feminine" hobby or profession is a cultural thing.

I don't believe you're sexist, but I do think that many people who support and defend notions of prescribed gender roles, including certain aspects of what they perceive to be "feminine" and "masculine," are sexist, misogynistic, and sometimes even misandrist (because I believe that such notions can be just as harmful to men as they are to women in certain cases).