Is this the essence of Evil?

[Wolke]

Hello,

I am ignorant of theology. My understanding of evil is based on religious experience. I am too ignorant to know the proper theological terminology to express what I am trying to communicate. I feel that I have glimpsed a reality that I can only describe as evil, and I am interested in knowing how much it corresponds to traditional theological concepts of evil. Perhaps the more knowledgeable members can assist me. Please forgive me, but it is necessary to describe one of my experiences of God.

In this experience, I became intensely conscious of my lack of free will. If I am not willing to let go of myself completely and merge with the Divine, I feel utterly entrapped and annihilated by this Infinite Power. In this state, I am overcome by a desperate urge to cling to the illusion of personal autonomy. From this arises an impulse to inflict harm on something -- as if to assert that I am, after all, really in control. And there is also, mingled with this, a sense of pride, and a deep-seated hatred of God. This hatred seems to arise from my envy of God's infinite power, and my consequent lack of personal autonomy; and also from the realisation that I never really existed to begin with, but am only, as it were, a thought inside the mind of God, who has complete power over me.

I don't expect anyone to believe any of the above, but it gave me an insight that may nonetheless prove valuable:

It seems to me that evil consists not merely in harming someone -- which is more often the result of ignorance -- but insulting and humiliating the created order as such, out of the consciousness of one's own insignifiance and powerlessness in the face of the divine. It's a rebelling against God by mutilating and upsetting the created order. (I suspect that some serial killers may be motivated by something of this nature, but that is another topic.)

The nearest we can get to this state of mind, outside of mystical illumination, is when everything appears contrary to sane consciousness -- everything acquires a strange, alien, and diabolical significance, like in stories where chairs acquire a life of their own, or of people being made from from mud and sticks, and hybrid animals from the bits and pieces of other animals: that is evil. It is a mocking of creation. Now imagine that everyday reality appeared to possess the same element of strangeness to you - everyday colours, sights, sounds, etc. That is how I sometimes feel. That is the essence of evil.

 

[Orias]

What you described is not evil, the feeling of helplessness in the eyes of the Divine, more specifically The Highest is a sign of virtue. Moreover it is a sign that creation itself is evil, because we must suffer through something that we seemingly never had any choice in becoming. But because we are, we MUST become. And because we have no choice, we ARE evil.

Though, the essence of evil lay beyond the most primal of natures, because evil can be conceived of, EVERYTHING is evil. And because EVERYTHING is evil, then there can only be ONE good, which is the destruction of EVERYTHING evil. Do you understand?

These Gods we speak too, and these demons we blame conspire as one. THEY ARE ALL THE SAME! The ultimate evil comes from the bowels of the one most people call "Lord", because if evil exists, and he created us, then he surely must be the most evil thing to ever exist. Because it was within his own mutilation of the perfect nothingness, that has transpired into feelings of hopelessness, and the desire to inflict pain (that we feel) into creations of our own.

Evil has no essence, essence has no meaning beyond nothingness. What was perfect, was destroyed with creation.

 

[mazaburein]

If your idea isn't covered in traditional theology I'd be surprised. I'm not at all knowledgeable of theology. Nonetheless I'm sure you're on to something so would also be interested to hear someone who is knowledgeable post about this. <- (written before I saw your post Orias)

Doing something felt to be wrong can be exciting because it is wrong. It breaks with the accepted order, asserting the power to be independent. Breaking the rules of whatever system can feel exciting and empowering. I see no reason why this could not also apply to a vision of god-as-everything, you-as-nothing.

Do you find those feelings of strangeness disturbing? I do, just from thinking about what you said.

 

[The Hammer]

These Gods we speak too, and these demons we blame conspire as one. THEY ARE ALL THE SAME!

If you are going to quote Lamb of God lyrics, at least use the proper quote.

"This God that I worship (a faded reflection). This demon I blame (a flickering flame). Conspire as one, exactly the same. It's exactly the same."

OP -- reality itself can seem evil, because humans are the lowest animals in their behavior on the totem pole of life. The "gifts" that make us enlightened, are the gifts of our own destruction. Conciousness and Religion being some of the major contributors.
To quote Mark Twain "Of all the animals, man is the only one that is cruel. He is the only one that inflicts pain for the pleasure of doing it... The cat plays with a frightened mouse, but she has this excuse, she does not know the mouse is suffering. The cat is moderate -- unhumanly moderate; she only scares the mouse she does not hurt it; she doesn't dig out it's eyes, or tear off it's skin, or drive splinters under its nails -- man-fashoin; when she is done playing with it she makes a sudden meal of it and puts it out of it's trouble. Man is the cruel animal. He is alone in that distincion." -- Letters From the Earth

It is our job as caretakers and creatures of this planet to learn to rise above our cruelty towards one another, and embrace the basic principles nature has taught all of the animals, the lessons of our ancestors that we seem to forget so easily.

 

[jonnychan]

I am an atheist and I have a very different view about evil. It is my view that there is nothing called evil in this world. Everything is relative and just the nature of every living being. What is evil to you may seem good and godly to me. Does not mean that just because you have a majority in your opinion, it should be accepted as the standard.

I don't believe in heaven and hell and I don't believe in the concept of people paying for their sins.

But evil is a concept of society. What ever breaks the laws we have set can be classified as evil. What ever restricts our survival can be classified as evil. Because at the end of the day, don't we all really only care about survival of us and the people/things we love?

 

[RGA1459]

Just stumbled upon this thread... it's kinda creepin me out a little bit. "Evil" and "disharmony" are the same to me. Like, the fact that a blade of grass can grow side by side with another blade of grass, sharing the same soil, the same sunlight, the same water, that is harmony. But should a human being want that same soil and sunlight and water, all grass and all other life must go, so he may build a home there. That is disharmony. That is evil. There is a way for humanity to live in perfect harmony with all other life on Earth, same as the birds who can use the tree yet do no harm to it, rather than having to destroy the life of that tree in order to get use out of it. Evil is disharmony in how I understand it, and it is indeed the perpetual state of most of the world. But there is an alternative, we are just too ignorant and selfish to pursue it, myself included.

 

[Pegg]

Hello,

I am ignorant of theology. My understanding of evil is based on religious experience. I am too ignorant to know the proper theological terminology to express what I am trying to communicate. I feel that I have glimpsed a reality that I can only describe as evil, and I am interested in knowing how much it corresponds to traditional theological concepts of evil. Perhaps the more knowledgeable members can assist me. Please forgive me, but it is necessary to describe one of my experiences of God.

In this experience, I became intensely conscious of my lack of free will. If I am not willing to let go of myself completely and merge with the Divine, I feel utterly entrapped and annihilated by this Infinite Power. In this state, I am overcome by a desperate urge to cling to the illusion of personal autonomy. From this arises an impulse to inflict harm on something -- as if to assert that I am, after all, really in control. And there is also, mingled with this, a sense of pride, and a deep-seated hatred of God. This hatred seems to arise from my envy of God's infinite power, and my consequent lack of personal autonomy; and also from the realisation that I never really existed to begin with, but am only, as it were, a thought inside the mind of God, who has complete power over me.

I don't expect anyone to believe any of the above, but it gave me an insight that may nonetheless prove valuable:

It seems to me that evil consists not merely in harming someone -- which is more often the result of ignorance -- but insulting and humiliating the created order as such, out of the consciousness of one's own insignifiance and powerlessness in the face of the divine. It's a rebelling against God by mutilating and upsetting the created order. (I suspect that some serial killers may be motivated by something of this nature, but that is another topic.)

The nearest we can get to this state of mind, outside of mystical illumination, is when everything appears contrary to sane consciousness -- everything acquires a strange, alien, and diabolical significance, like in stories where chairs acquire a life of their own, or of people being made from from mud and sticks, and hybrid animals from the bits and pieces of other animals: that is evil. It is a mocking of creation. Now imagine that everyday reality appeared to possess the same element of strangeness to you - everyday colours, sights, sounds, etc. That is how I sometimes feel. That is the essence of evil.

I have a feeling that what you are experiencing is similar to what King Solomon of ancient Israel came to see... that life is not ours, we live it, but we dont own it. We have no control over it and this causes a great deal of frustration at the inevitable outcome of such a situation. Its like we are riding an out of control freight train heading for a cliff and you have no way of getting off. We just have to sit and wait for it to crash and explode...we cant help even ourselves let alone the people we love.

And this inevitable end causes us a great deal of conflict because we want to keep living. The bible says that God has &#8220;set eternity in the hearts of men.&#8221; So we think in terms of 'forever', but we also have a realisation that death is inevitable. The desire to know where death leads, and the inability to find the answer, has tormented thinkers and philosophers throughout the ages. They've come up with all sorts of 'alternatives' to death.... but no one really knows if their 'alternative' is true, only God knows what happens to us when we die.

 

[Orias]

If you are going to quote Lamb of God lyrics, at least use the proper quote.

"This God that I worship (a faded reflection). This demon I blame (a flickering flame). Conspire as one, exactly the same. It's exactly the same."

OP -- reality itself can seem evil, because humans are the lowest animals in their behavior on the totem pole of life. The "gifts" that make us enlightened, are the gifts of our own destruction. Conciousness and Religion being some of the major contributors.
To quote Mark Twain "Of all the animals, man is the only one that is cruel. He is the only one that inflicts pain for the pleasure of doing it... The cat plays with a frightened mouse, but she has this excuse, she does not know the mouse is suffering. The cat is moderate -- unhumanly moderate; she only scares the mouse she does not hurt it; she doesn't dig out it's eyes, or tear off it's skin, or drive splinters under its nails -- man-fashoin; when she is done playing with it she makes a sudden meal of it and puts it out of it's trouble. Man is the cruel animal. He is alone in that distincion." -- Letters From the Earth

It is our job as caretakers and creatures of this planet to learn to rise above our cruelty towards one another, and embrace the basic principles nature has taught all of the animals, the lessons of our ancestors that we seem to forget so easily.

I didn't quote Lamb of God lyrics, I paraphrased them

 

[Union jack]

Guilt implies free-will. Lack of free-will = Blameless, I don't know what evil is unless it's maybe our lack of ability to forgive (7x70?) due to the blamelessness of our assailants.

 

[Edenborne]

Protestant and Catholic belief differ heavily on what is 'evil' and what counts as 'justification'. In fact, Abrahamic religion is scattered on the notions.

The only agreeable thing along these lines is that God is the embodiment of good. What He created in the beginning was good, and evil was sown in the inequity of the Devil and of men.

 

[Visionary28]

The instinct of man is to sin (according to his religion/God). Therefore, the gap between man and his God can only grow wider. In this sence, man is destined to live a life of guilt, regret, and despair. He will never serve his God or creator fully according to the standards set forth by his religion. In other words, he will never set him self apart or become Holy in the eyes of his religion or personal God. If one chooses to live with complete self autonomy, one must separate from God and it's concepts of evil and sin.