Is Torture a Christian Value?

[kevmicsmi]

Are we at war, as Bush says, or not? If we are at war, so are they.

But the question is whether torture is a Christian value. Since you're a Christian, and you support torture, I take it you think torture is compatible with Christianity?


Give me one example of that happening in real life. One case in which tens of thousands of lives were saved by torture.


Jesus never spoke on how to conduct a war because his teachings absolutely preclude the possibility of participating in a war.


So if it's impossible for public officials to follow the teachings of Jesus, is it possible for a public official to be a Christian? Or is it just that Christians should not follow the teachings of Jesus unless it seems expedient to do so?

First I wish you would answer my question, what is torture?

I have said I do not think true torure is compatible with Christianity, but the option must remain open.

Give me one example of planes flying into buildings before 9-11? Give me one example of people with muskets hiding instead of standing in a line with bright red coats on before the revolutionary war? Point is, we must be ready for what has not happened , as well as what has already happened.

I believe Jesus never spoke on war, because that is not what God sent hHim here for, but he did heed OT which talked about many battles

Yes it is possible tfor a public official to be Christian even though they may know about ungodly things, we all sin, and they knew what they were getting into when they decided to run for office. See old testament.

 

[Smoke]

First I wish you would answer my question, what is torture?

Why? Don't you know? Don't you have access to a dictionary?

I have said I do not think true torure is compatible with Christianity, but the option must remain open.

So it's okay for Christians to act in a manner that is not compatible with Christianity?

Give me one example of planes flying into buildings before 9-11? Give me one example of people with muskets hiding instead of standing in a line with bright red coats on before the revolutionary war? Point is, we must be ready for what has not happened , as well as what has already happened.

Okay, forget about tens of thousands. Give me one example where 1000 lives were saved by torture. One case in all the centuries mankind has used torture.

I believe Jesus never spoke on war, because that is not what God sent hHim here for, but he did heed OT which talked about many battles

It is impossible to love your neighbor as yourself at the same time as you are bombing his home and killing his family.

 

[kevmicsmi]

Why? Don't you know? Don't you have access to a dictionary?


So it's okay for Christians to act in a manner that is not compatible with Christianity?


Okay, forget about tens of thousands. Give me one example where 1000 lives were saved by torture. One case in all the centuries mankind has used torture.


It is impossible to love your neighbor as yourself at the same time as you are bombing his home and killing his family.

Why do you refuse to answer my questions?

how about this.... :banghead3

What is YOUR definition of tortuer?

Untill I get an answer to my questions, I will cease to answer yours

 

[Smoke]

Why do you refuse to answer my questions?

how about this.... :banghead3

What is YOUR definition of tortuer?

Untill I get an answer to my questions, I will cease to answer yours

Fine with me.

 

[kevmicsmi]

Why do you refuse to answer my questions?

how about this.... :banghead3

What is YOUR definition of tortuer?

Untill I get an answer to my questions, I will cease to answer yours

Midnightblue I guess you refuse to answer my questions, so Im going to bed.

Ps. Please if you are going to debate issues with me at least respond to everything I have posted, and answer my questions. I would rather Knockout, than :dan: around issues

 

[robtex]

MOD POST:

If you guys are a little heated in this debate can you do me a favor and step out for a bit and look at other threads or other sites before coming back in here? It is just a debate please don't make it personal. Thank you.

 

[retrorich]

Is Torture a Christian Value?

Only when Christians torture non-Christians by trying to force Christian values on them.

 

[michel]

Only when Christians torture non-Christians by trying to force Christian values on them.

That is unforgivable, but there is nothing I can do about you poor Americans. And I am sure that this is an 'American Thing'. Here in England, no one I ever meet talks of religion.

I met a chap in the park a couple of days ago, and we chatted; I found that his partner (female) of 7 years had just died, and we chatted. I asked him if he was religious, to which he answered what seems to be acommon answere here to that question "Well, I believe there is a God, but that is about all". That seems to be a stock answer.

Is torturing a Christian Value ? - well, the answer to the question is, of course, a resounding 'no'.

 

[CaptainXeroid]

Stalinism is a specific kind of atheism...

You don't seem to have a problem lumping all Christians together and making nonsensical generalizations, so JewScout's point is 100% valid.

Is torture a Christian value?

NO!:areyoucra I can understand why this thread got heated since it started with a rather ridiculous question.

Only when Christians torture non-Christians by trying to force Christian values on them.

I hear this a lot from atheists, and from my experience what it really means is that they are not secure in their beliefs....almost like they know God is speaking to them, and they are trying hard not to listen.:162:

 

[retrorich]

I hear this a lot from atheists, and from my experience what it really means is that they are not secure in their beliefs....almost like they know God is speaking to them, and they are trying hard not to listen.:162:

Glen, mon ami, my post was tongue-in-cheek. I assure you I am totally secure in my atheism--which is not a belief, but rather, a nonbelief. And if God wishes to communicate with me, I would prefer that it be in the form of email.

 

[ashai]

The administration doesn't adhere to the Geneva Conventions because the administration is without honor. Our commitment to the Geneva Conventions is not supposed to depend on whether every criminal in the world adheres to them.

Ushta Midnight Blue

And in what Geneva convention are the rights of irregular combatants, with no uniform and no state, recognized. Please chapter and verse

 

[ashai]

The Geneva convention was an agreement BETWEEN NATIONS. Al queda, and other non uniformed combatants did not agree to the treaty therefore it is invalid. Crimiinals in our country are afforded less than pow's under the geneva conventions. Are you seriously telling me that when we catch an illegal combatant, all we should be able to ask them is name rank and serial number? OUTRAGEOUS!

How does torture protect our interests?

First off, please define what you consider torture, secondly, in every day practice, true torture does not protect our interest, however, are you telling me that if you captured someone, who you KNEW had intimate details on an attack that could kill tens of thousands of people, and you had limited time, you would not want your government to have every tool at their disposal to make the man talk?

Ushta Kevmicsmi

Ah! Some one who understands the tough choices and hates PC!!:clap I don't know about the rest of you, but if I had custody of a terrorist that had information on a nuke about to go off and kill 100,000 's of innocent civilians I would torture him to death without blinking an eye!:banghead3

Frubals to you!!!

Ushta te
Ashai

 

[ashai]

George Bush decided that the people suspected of being involved with Al Qaeda were POWs. That's because he wanted to deny them of the rights afforded to criminals ... especially their right to a speedy trial (Ammendment VI of the Bill of Rights).

If they're criminals, torturing them violates their rights (Ammendment V and VIII). If they're POWs, torture violates the Geneva conventions. In either case, it's against the law.

Under these circumstances, I'd torture them myself. quote]

Ushta

One thing. Bush did not decide that the people suspected of being with Al Qaeda were POWs. From the beginning and even now the administration has, correctly, held that they are illegal combatants, not POW and not criminals. Illegal combatants are discussed in the Geneva Conventions and are not given the rights of POW which, by the way, means that they could be shot on sight. :tsk: Instead we hold them in detention to prevent their harming more innocent civilians and to obtain intelligence.

Sadly the American's electorate information on this matters is way below where it ought to be

 

[ashai]

Are we at war, as Bush says, or not? If we are at war, so are they.

Ushta

I guess you have never heard of allegory or metaphor? Congress if you remember tried to declare war and Bush said no. we are not officially at war.

Certainly if anything I disagree with some of Bush's conduct of the war, but criticizing him on the human rights of terrorists is sheer folly

Ushta Te
Ashai