Is Trinity in the Bible?

[Yasin]

Yasin:bounce

 

[Scuba Pete]

The word "trinity" is not found in the Scriptures. Much of the doctrine is, but as with any man-made doctrine, there are a few extrapolations and inferences which are also not supported.

I am sure this will spark a fairly intense debated from both sides of this spiritual "ailse", but I would love to see them support any and all claims with scripture and scripture only. That would be informative for me.

 

[michel]

The word "trinity" is not found in the Scriptures. Much of the doctrine is, but as with any man-made doctrine, there are a few extrapolations and inferences which are also not supported.

I am sure this will spark a fairly intense debated from both sides of this spiritual "ailse", but I would love to see them support any and all claims with scripture and scripture only. That would be informative for me.

Well, just to start the ball rolling, the following are two posts made previously, which give the "Catholic angle"

Scott posted this:-http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14373&highlight=Cantalamessa

OME, MAY 21, 2005 (Zenit) - In a commentary on this Sunday's Gospel passage, Capuchin Father Raniero Cantalamessa, the preacher of the Pontifical Household, comments that the Trinity is a model for the whole human community because it shows how love creates unity out of diversity.

John (3:16-18)

At that time, Jesus said to Nicodemus: "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him. He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God."

The Source of Love

The second reading of today's liturgy, taken from the second letter of St. Paul to the Corinthians, is the one that most directly evokes the mystery of the Most Holy Trinity: "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with you." But, why do Christians believe in the Trinity? Isn't it difficult enough to believe that God exists, that we must also have added to it the enigma that he is "one and triune?" There are some today who would not be unhappy to leave the Trinity to one side, to be able to dialogue better with Jews and Muslims, who profess faith in a God who is rigidly one.

Christians believe that God is triune because they believe that God is love! It is the revelation of God as love, made by Jesus, which has obliges us to admit the Trinity. It is not a human invention. There is no love for the void, no love that is not directed to someone. So we must ask: who does God love to be defined as love? A first answer might be: He loves mankind. But we have existed for some millions of years, no more. And before then, who did God love? He could not in fact have begun to be love at a certain point in time, because God cannot change.

Second answer: Before then he loved the cosmos, the universe. But the universe has existed for some thousands of millions of years. Before then, who did God love to be able to define himself as love? We cannot say that he loved himself because to love oneself is not love, but egoism or, as psychologists say, narcissism.

Here is the answer of Christian revelation. God is love in himself, before time, because he has always had in himself a Son, the word, whom he loves with an infinite love, that is, in the Holy Spirit. In all love there are always three realities or subjects: one who loves, one who is loved, and the love that unites them.

The God of Christian revelation is one and triune because he is communion of love. Theology has made use of the term "nature" or "substance" to indicate unity in God, and of the term "person" to indicate the distinction. Because of this we say that our God is one God in three persons. The Christian doctrine of the Trinity is not a regression, a compromise between monotheism and polytheism. It is a step further that only God himself could make the human mind take.

Let us now turn to some practical considerations. The Trinity is the model of every human community, from the most simple and elemental, which is the family, to the universal Church. It shows how love creates unity out of diversity: unity of intentions, of thought, of will; diversity of subjects, of characteristics and, in the human realm, of sex. And we see, specifically, what a family can learn from the Trinitarian model.

If we read the New Testament with care, we observe a sort of rule. Each one of the three divine persons does not speak about himself, but about the other; does not attract attention to himself, but to the other. Every time the Father speaks in the Gospel he does so always to reveal something of the Son. Jesus, in turn, speaks only of the Father. When the Holy Spirit reaches a believer's heart, he does not teach him to say his name, which in Hebrew is "Ruah," but teaches him to say "Abba," which is the Father's name.

Let's try to think what this style would bring about if it were transferred to family life. The father, who is not so concerned about asserting his authority as that of the mother; the mother, who before teaching the child to say "Mommy," teaches him to say "Daddy." If this style was imitated in our families and communities, they would truly become a reflection of the Trinity on earth, places where love is the rule that governs everything.

[Italian original published by "Famiglia Cristiana"]

[Translation by ZENIT]

www.catholic.org

In addition:

(I believe this came from http://www.catholic.com/library/Trinity.asp)

The doctrine of the Trinity is encapsulated in Matthew 28:19, where Jesus instructs the apostles: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
but, it is not that easy........ the Catechism teaches:
237 The Trinity is a mystery of faith in the strict sense, one of the "mysteries that are hidden in God, which can never be known unless they are revealed by God". To be sure, God has left traces of his Trinitarian being in his work of creation and in his Revelation throughout the Old Testament. But his inmost Being as Holy Trinity is a mystery that is inaccessible to reason alone or even to Israel's faith before the Incarnation of God's Son and the sending of the Holy Spirit.

It seems that some here need an education about the early Christian church.....
"After the foregoing instructions, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living [running] water. . . . If you have neither, pour water three times on the head, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" (Didache 7:1 [A.D. 70]).
Justin Martyr
"We will prove that we worship him reasonably; for we have learned that he is the Son of the true God himself, that he holds a second place, and the Spirit of prophecy a third. For this they accuse us of madness, saying that we attribute to a crucified man a place second to the unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all things; but they are ignorant of the mystery which lies therein" (First Apology 13:5–6 [A.D. 151]).
Theophilus of Antioch
"It is the attribute of God, of the most high and almighty and of the living God, not only to be everywhere, but also to see and hear all; for he can in no way be contained in a place. . . . The three days before the luminaries were created are types of the Trinity: God, his Word, and his Wisdom" (To Autolycus 2:15 [A.D. 181]).
There are several more early Christian (Catholic) writers to add to this LONG before the 3rd century. Commentary about the Council of Nicea is often misleading. Everyone needs to understand that just because something is defined at a council does not mean that it was not COMMON knowledge to Christians at the time. Most councils were held when a heretical group forced the Church to infallibly define something as doctrine........ and in this case:
The early Christians were quick to spot new heresies. In the third century, Sabellius, a Libyan priest who was staying at Rome, invented a new one. He claimed there is only one person in the Godhead, so that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all one person with different "offices," rather than three persons who are one being in the Godhead, as the orthodox position holds.
Of course, people immediately recognized that Sabellius’s teaching contradicted the historic faith of the Church, and he was quickly excommunicated. His heresy became known as Sabellianism, Modalism, and Patripassianism. It was called Sabellianism after its founder, Modalism after the three modes or offices which it claimed the one person of the Trinity occupied, and Patripassianism after its implication that the person of the Father (Patri-) suffered (-passion) on the cross when Jesus died.
Because Modalism asserts that there is only one person in the Godhead, it makes nonsense of passages which show Jesus talking to his Father (e.g., John 17), or declaring he is going to be with the Father (John 14:12, 28, 16:10) One office of a person cannot go to be with another office of that person, or say that the two of them will send the Holy Spirit while they remain in heaven (John 14:16-17, 26, 15:26, 16:13–15; Acts 2:32–33).
Modalism quickly died out; it was too contrary to the ancient Christian faith to survive for long. Unfortunately, it was reintroduced in the early twentieth century in the new Pentecostal movement. In its new form, Modalism is often referred to as Jesus Only theology since it claims that Jesus is the only person in the Godhead and that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are merely names, modes, or offices of Jesus. Today the United Pentecostal Church, as well as numerous smaller groups which call themselves "apostolic churches," teach the Jesus Only doctrine.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Personally, I don't have any squabble that the Catholics believe as such. At the same time, it appears to me that what they refer to as "modalism" is an entirely simplistic (or inaccurate) handling of what Pentacostals believe. As I pointed out in my earlier post, much of the doctrine of "Trinity" can be supported by scriptures. I would love then, for those so inclined, to provide scriptural references for every aspect of the Trinity, including the name.

 

[Deut 13:1]

Yasin:bounce

Some people believe televisions can be found in the bible... Doesn't mean it's there... Same with triinity.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Cars can be found in the Bible... so can nurseries.

 

[greatcalgarian]

Cars can be found in the Bible... so can nurseries.

So does this line of arguement lead to the conclusion that things that can be found in the bible must exist, things that cannot be found in the bible cannot exist?:bonk:

 

[Scuba Pete]

Nah, I was making light of the statement... the verse?

"The Disciples were in one Accord."

 

[michel]

Nah, I was making light of the statement... the verse?

"The Disciples were in one Accord."

Did they buy it honda never never ?

 

[YmirGF]

Yasin, is just a troll on a mission, to show us the error of Christian thinking. Nothing more, most assuredly, nothing less.

 

[Pardus]

Could the trinity be one of those assimilations of other religions?

 

[Popeyesays]

The Bible has no direct statement of the "trinity".

 

[joeboonda]

I don't feel like debating it, I believe in the Trinity. But here is something cool I read the other morning during my devotionals:

Light

In his book, "The Chemistry of the Blood", M.R. Dehaan, founder of the Radio Bible Class, notes that in saying "God is light," the biblical authors are telling us something about the Trinity. A scientific analysis of sunlight reveals that it consists of three kinds of rays:

1. Chemical rays or actinic. These rays are invisible and can neither be seen or felt.
2. Light rays. These rays can be seen but never felt.
3. Heat rays. These rays are felt but never seen.

DeHaan writes, "God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. We know the Godhead consists of Three Persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father corresponds to the chemical rays of sunlight, No man hath seen God at any time. The Son, who is the light of the world, corresponds to the light rays, the One whom we can see but not feel. The Holy Spirit corresponds to the heat rays, since He is felt in the lives of believers but never seen."

I thought that was pretty cool.

Sincerely,

Joeboonda

 

[greatcalgarian]

I don't feel like debating it, I believe in the Trinity. But here is something cool I read the other morning during my devotionals:

Light

In his book, "The Chemistry of the Blood", M.R. Dehaan, founder of the Radio Bible Class, notes that in saying "God is light," the biblical authors are telling us something about the Trinity. A scientific analysis of sunlight reveals that it consists of three kinds of rays:

1. Chemical rays or actinic. These rays are invisible and can neither be seen or felt.
2. Light rays. These rays can be seen but never felt.
3. Heat rays. These rays are felt but never seen.

DeHaan writes, "God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. We know the Godhead consists of Three Persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father corresponds to the chemical rays of sunlight, No man hath seen God at any time. The Son, who is the light of the world, corresponds to the light rays, the One whom we can see but not feel. The Holy Spirit corresponds to the heat rays, since He is felt in the lives of believers but never seen."

I thought that was pretty cool.

Sincerely,

Joeboonda

Light is a form of energy, as like heat, sound etc. Light propagate in waves. Depending on the wave length, there is a range of which our human rectina receptacles can react to those lights, and hence sense the presence of these light. Some lights with short wavelength, you do not see it, however, it is then not given the nomenclature of 'light', but is more generally referred to as radiation, such as X-ray, gamma ray, etc. The intensity of the light (amplitude of the wave) determined whether you will feel 'hot' or not when it strikes your skin, as those light energy is then converted to accumulated heat energy on your skin leading to a rise in temperature.

So if God is light, He then is just a form of energy. It is just forcing yourself to split light into three to try to explain away Trinity.

I prefer to use a cup of coffee to describe Trinity, where the cup of coffee is made up of three component: coffee essense, water, and sugar (or milk)

 

[Yasin]

If you can crasp or understand the Semitic languages(which are Hebrew, Aramayic and Arabic) you will see that they have two different plurals, the first being the plural of numbers, as we know it, and the other being a plural of repect, which in the case of Genesis 1:26:
God said, Let us make man in our image........

is a plural of Respect, same in the Quran, many times God refers to himself as "we" and "our".........thats why no Arab speaking Christian would rase objection to such terminology, because he understands his language and the rules for grammar.......You may check this reason for yourself if still not convinced.........Because remember the Bible originally was written in hebrew and Jesus (pbuh) spoke Aramayic and not creek.......and therefore has nothing to do with the Trinity..........Yasin:bounce

 

[Katzpur]

So if God is light, He then is just a form of energy. It is just forcing yourself to split light into three to try to explain away Trinity.

God may be light, but that is only part of what He is. It's an attribute, not a definition.

I prefer to use a cup of coffee to describe Trinity, where the cup of coffee is made up of three component: coffee essense, water, and sugar (or milk)

Well, since I don't accept the doctrine of the Trinity myself, I may be wrong about this. However, it is my understanding that Trinitarians believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are each fully God. I don't drink coffee either, but unless I'm mistaken, coffee essense, water, and sugar (or milk) are not each fully coffee. I realize that no analogy is perfect. This one, however, leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[Yasin]

Some people believe televisions can be found in the bible... Doesn't mean it's there... Same with triinity.

Hi Binyamin,
We are talking about a fundamental doctrine, which should be there, something you base your whole faith on, if the concept of God is nowhere to be found in the Bible then tell me what do you base your concept on, if not the scriptures?
Respectively, Yasin:bounce

 

[Yasin]

To YmirGF and all,
I can assure you that is not the case, understanding each other is what i want, be it discussing or debating......Respectively, Yasin:bounce

 

[blood-lord14]

nope,trinity is the lover girl of neo
who still has a zero value existence
but that's just my opionion.
i speeled it wrong so kill me...

 

[YmirGF]

To YmirGF and all,
I can assure you that is not the case, understanding each other is what i want, be it discussing or debating......Respectively, Yasin:bounce

You know Yasin, I do appreciate that. However, planting seeds of doubt is a truly odd way of showing respect. Am I being silly again?

The only thing I ask is that you strive to be original in your reasoning. I would like to hear Islam from the mouth of a Muslim, but without the usual dog and pony show. You will find me rapidly heaping praises, if you state your position in your own words. Try not to rely on endless steams of quotations from others to make your point, as that is already a bit "old".