Is truth different than ultimate truth?

[Valjean]

What is varying in your examples? Is it truth, or is it states of consciousness? Truth, or "things"? Are each of your claims above equally true?

Waking-state: "Teapots exist" -- true.

Cosmic consciousness: "Teapots exist" -- untrue.

 

[Sonic247]

If life in the waking state is no better than in a dream then are the people we know real, or just real to us? In a dream we might think there is someone else there but we are really alone on a couch somewhere, is the waking state not any better than that?

 

[Willamena]

Waking-state: "Teapots exist" -- true.

Cosmic consciousness: "Teapots exist" -- untrue.

Let me ask this:
(Walking-state: "Teapots exist" = true) = true?
(Cosmic consciousness: "Teapots exist" = untrue) = true?

"Truth" hasn't changed one iota.

 

[Sonic247]

I like chamomile w/ milk and honey- how about you Willamena?

 

[Willamena]

I like chamomile w/ milk and honey- how about you Willamena?

I love it plain. I have simple tastes.

 

[Sonic247]

That's cool but I can definately go for stuff that gives you a sugar rush, although alot of the time I'll purposelly stop myself from having junk for health reasons and because the Bible says to be temperate, but anyway they had this drink at seven eleven, a reeses peanutbutter cup and bannana latte- if drinking that's not cosmic conscienceness I don't know what is- j.k

 

[Willamena]

That's cool but I can definately go for stuff that gives you a sugar rush, although alot of the time I'll purposelly stop myself from having junk for health reasons, they had this drink at seven eleven, a reeses peanutbutter cup and bannana latte- if drinking that's not cosmic conscienceness I don't know what is- j.k

Me either.

(...since the "cosmos" or universe encompasses all things.)

 

[Sonic247]

Crud, time to get ready for work, if there was a conscieness were my job didn't exist I wish I would wake up into it now. Just kidding, I should be thankful for having a job, oh well- peace

 

[Valjean]

Let me ask this:
(Walking-state: "Teapots exist" = true) = true?
(Cosmic consciousness: "Teapots exist" = untrue) = true?

"Truth" hasn't changed one iota.

I'm not sure what you're saying, Willamena.

 

[Willamena]

I'm not sure what you're saying, Willamena.

I am just saying that "truth" isn't what you (from what I perceive) think it is.

 

[Valjean]

You've still lost me. What do I think truth is, and what is it really?

All I'm saying is that there atr numerous, subjective, small "t" truths, and one,objective, Large "T: Truth.

"Teapots exist" and "teapots don't exist" are both true in different levelsof consciousness.

 

[Willamena]

The truth is "the value in what is true."

There is only one "truth," whether big "t" or small "t". That's what unity is about.

"Teapots exist" under one condition, and "teapots don't exist" with another condition, are both true. You determine the condition (or context) for their existence.

"Form does not differ from emptiness."

 

[Nick Soapdish]

I would asume that if there are degrees of truth, then there is no truth at all.

That's not true.

 

[Nick Soapdish]

The truth is what is real. If we agree that there is a reality, then there must be Truth. We may be limited by what we can know about an "ultimate" truth, but I think we can be sure one exists.

Also, I think we can agree that we all live in the same reality. Therefore, there are no subjective truths, only the Truth.

Finally, since we don't all agree on the Truth, then there must also be falsehoods.

 

[Willamena]

The truth is what is real. If we agree that there is a reality, then there must be Truth. We may be limited by what we can know about an "ultimate" truth, but I think we can be sure one exists.

Also, I think we can agree that we all live in the same reality. Therefore, there are no subjective truths, only the Truth.

Finally, since we don't all agree on the Truth, then there must also be falsehoods.

Yes, because whatever we don't agree on must be falsehood.

 

[Valjean]

The truth is "the value in what is true."

This is circular, and it doesn't make sense. I don't know what you mean here. Sorry.

There is only one "truth," whether big "t" or small "t". That's what unity is about.

"Teapots exist" under one condition, and "teapots don't exist" with another condition, are both true. You determine the condition (or context) for their existence.

I don't think you understand what I mean by levels of consciousness or by subjective vs objective reality.
Reality is different in different levels of consciousness. There in one objective truth, but different subjective, illusory truths.
I don't know how I canexplain this to you...

"Form does not differ from emptiness."

I don't know what this means.

 

[Valjean]

The truth is what is real. If we agree that there is a reality, then there must be Truth. We may be limited by what we can know about an "ultimate" truth, but I think we can be sure one exists.

Also, I think we can agree that we all live in the same reality. Therefore, there are no subjective truths, only the Truth.

Au contraire, my friend.
I agree there is one Objective Truth, but I contend there are multiple dream/subjective truths.

The dreams you dream at night are subjective realities. They're not physically possible, but while you're dreaming them they are the only reality you know. For all practical purposes, within the dream, they're real.

Your ordinary, waking-state is no different; a reality in contravention of the laws of physics, but seeming real. It's another subjective reality.

Objective Reality is the Universe as it really is; a Quantam/Relativistic Universe, the universe directly perceived by those who wake from 3rd-state; a timeless, spaceless, multidimensional Reality.

 

[Nick Soapdish]

Yes, because whatever we don't agree on must be falsehood.

I never said I am always right. I'm sure I have my own share of falsehoods.

 

[Nick Soapdish]

Au contraire, my friend.
I agree there is one Objective Truth, but I contend there are multiple dream/subjective truths.

The dreams you dream at night are subjective realities. They're not physically possible, but while you're dreaming them they are the only reality you know. For all practical purposes, within the dream, they're real.

Your ordinary, waking-state is no different; a reality in contravention of the laws of physics, but seeming real. It's another subjective reality.

Objective Reality is the Universe as it really is; a Quantam/Relativistic Universe, the universe directly perceived by those who wake from 3rd-state; a timeless, spaceless, multidimensional Reality.

Just because something is a "subjective reality" does not preclude it from being true. For example, it is true I dreamt of the movie Beowulf last night. That is a true statement, even though it was a subjective reality.

 

[Valjean]

But I'm claiming it is true -- subjectively true. Not just your memory of the dream, but the dream itself, as it was unfolding, was subjectively true.