Is "truth" personal?

[PureX]

No im not i am saying that measured reality is better than guess.

I.e. the earth you are standing on is real. It is not a guess.

The pratt who dented my car is real, as is the dent.

They dont need subjective judgement.

Observed reality is not the same thing as our conceptualizations of observed reality. "Facts" are conceptualizations of reality (a pratt dented my car). Not to be confused with reality, itself.

 

[ChristineM]

Observed reality is not the same thing as our conceptualizations of observed reality. "Facts" are conceptualizations of reality (a pratt dented my car). Not to be confused with reality, itself.

Yet it is still real, if humans were not here to observe it makes no difference to reality. No difference to the fact of reality

The reality is the dent and that someone caused it. The pratt is my subjective view of the person, not the damage

 

[Alien826]

But gravity is "only a theory". Apparently.

Heh. Of course not gravity itself, but how gravity works, is a theory. Also of course, "only a theory" is totally misleading.

 

[Scolopendra]

This question is not limited to Christians (even though it seems so) or to any belief or lack thereof but it's rather question of existence or nonexistence of God.

There are many truths about all sorts of things, but when speaking about "truth" I mean the Jesus' role in proclaiming truth,
or more specifically Pilate style curiosity when he asked Jesus "what is truth?", after all Pilates knew the role of Jesus.

In regard to Jesus' role but regardless of your belief in Jesus, "truth" is therefore an answer to existence of God, that is, God either exists or it does not, there is no 3rd option.
If God exists OK because we live for ever, if not we're doomed because there is no life after death as simple as that and that's what's meant by "truth" and what it reveals.

"truth" also literary means something that is true, therefore "truth" in this context unambiguously either reveals God exists or it reveals God does not exist,
thus it's a two edge sword meaning both sides can wound or both can tell the truth.
Truth about existence of God is thus transformative, because it is capable to convert non-believers to believers and vice versa depending on what the truth reveals.

That's what I mean by "truth".

However the fact is that we're not all believers nor we're all atheists, therefore there are only three logical hypotheses about mystery of truth:
1.) truth is not known
2.) truth is esoteric
3.) well known but not universally believable

And this begs the question on whether the truth is personal?

As you can see for yourself all 3 hypotheses imply truth is personal.
But that's a problem because if truth is personal then how it can be "truth", are you not lying to yourself?
Therefore truth is paradoxically also not personal!

Do you think truth is personal?

If we define truth as "the property of being in accord with fact or reality" (M.-Webster Online Dictionary,2005) the answer is a cathegorical no. If we define truth as something that we hold extremely viable and that guide our life and psyche the answer is yes. But I prefer to call that Weltanschauung

 

[Alien826]

I'm sorry but I'm not sure if I understand what you mean by this?

Let's say there is an object, say a rock, that exists. It would be nice to be able to say with absolute certainty that we know it exists and we know what characteristics it has. Unfortunately, we don't interact directly with the rock, What we have is sense impressions that reach our brain from outside ourselves. Thus, we can never be absolutely certain about reality. However, we use a working assumption that our senses are reasonably accurate and use various methods to check that. That assumption has served us very well.

 

[KWED]

Heh. Of course not gravity itself, but how gravity works, is a theory. Also of course, "only a theory" is totally misleading.

That was the point. The "it's only a theory" argument merely shows a lack of understanding of a range of issues.

 

[Link]

But that's a problem because if truth is personal then how it can be "truth", are you not lying to yourself?
Do you think truth is personal?

You have to pick up the sword of truth and be truthful to yourself cutting all falsehood which is other then God. That's a personal battle.

When we living most of our lives lying to ourselves and others, and deceiving ourselves by masks we wear that are not us, but we believe is us, it's personal journey to stop deceiving yourself and see by vision of truth and truthfulness.

"O my people, Worship God, you have other than him no other God" - Surah Hud

Some of us are mix between some path between truthfulness and deceiving ourselves.

It's hard to realize how low we have fell. It's hard to handle.

 

[Alien826]

That's something of a straw man, deep analysis of the water would in all probability show traces of shark semen and dna.

Eeeeew! No more ocean swimming for me! Just kidding, it could be quite nutritious.

 

[Alien826]

That was the point. The "it's only a theory" argument merely shows a lack of understanding of a range of issues.

Yes. I was agreeing with you.

 

[paradox]

If we define truth as "the property of being in accord with fact or reality" (M.-Webster Online Dictionary,2005) the answer is a cathegorical no. If we define truth as something that we hold extremely viable and that guide our life and psyche the answer is yes. But I prefer to call that Weltanschauung

it's not as simple to limit this to reality, since God is supernatural being.
supernatural requires experiencing it, I find post #36 a good analogy.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

.....There are many truths about all sorts of things, but when speaking about "truth" I mean the Jesus' role in proclaiming truth, or more specifically Pilate style curiosity when he asked Jesus "what is truth?", after all Pilates knew the role of Jesus.
In regard to Jesus' role but regardless of your belief in Jesus, "truth" is therefore an answer to existence of God, that is, God either exists or it does not, there is no 3rd option.
If God exists OK because we live for ever, if not we're doomed because there is no life after death as simple as that and that's what's meant by "truth" and what it reveals.
"truth" also literary means something that is true, therefore "truth" in this context unambiguously either reveals God exists or it reveals God does not exist,
thus it's a two edge sword meaning both sides can wound or both can tell the truth.
Truth about existence of God is thus transformative, because it is capable to convert non-believers to believers and vice versa depending on what the truth reveals.
That's what I mean by "truth".
However the fact is that we're not all believers nor we're all atheists, therefore there are only three logical hypotheses about mystery of truth:
1.) truth is not known
2.) truth is esoteric
3.) well known but not universally believable
And this begs the question on whether the truth is personal?
As you can see for yourself all 3 hypotheses imply truth is personal.
But that's a problem because if truth is personal then how it can be "truth", are you not lying to yourself?
Therefore truth is paradoxically also not personal!
Do you think truth is personal?

Pilate was speaking about 'truth in general'.
Jesus spoke of 'religious truth'. At John 17:17 that Scripture is: religious truth.

 

[PearlSeeker]

There are many truths about all sorts of things, but when speaking about "truth" I mean the Jesus' role in proclaiming truth, or more specifically Pilate style curiosity when he asked Jesus "what is truth?", after all Pilates knew the role of Jesus.

In regard to Jesus' role but regardless of your belief in Jesus, "truth" is therefore an answer to existence of God, that is, God either exists or it does not, there is no 3rd option.

Jesus (in the Gospel of John) was not proclaiming simply that God exists. Jesus is the (only) one with direct knowledge of God (already before the world was even created). This is the truth he proclaimed.

"No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him." (Jn 1:18)

 

[PureX]

Let's say there is an object, say a rock, that exists. It would be nice to be able to say with absolute certainty that we know it exists and we know what characteristics it has. Unfortunately, we don't interact directly with the rock, What we have is sense impressions that reach our brain from outside ourselves. Thus, we can never be absolutely certain about reality. However, we use a working assumption that our senses are reasonably accurate and use various methods to check that. That assumption has served us very well.

Unfortunately, we are "checking our senses" with our senses, and then presuming our senses are accurate. Which is a very biased method of validation.

This is what we tend to ignore, and even deny, most of the time.

 

[Alien826]

Unfortunately, we are "checking our senses" with our senses, and then presuming our senses are accurate. Which is a very biased method of validation.

This is what we tend to ignore, and even deny, most of the time.

True, but that's all we have. Even if you are using a scientific instrument to observe something, in the end the information comes to our brain via our senses.

Fortunately, the methods we use to check our senses work pretty well. We see a rock. We touch it, in the position suggested by our vision, and we feel it, in more or less the shape we thought it was. Then we compare our sensual impressions to those of other people. Generally they agree.

Of course our senses will always see the rock as a solid object rather than the mass of swirling energy that it really is (or have we gone deep enough with that?).