Is "Uncle Tom" a Racist Term?

[Alceste]

Who the hell here is actually saying that? I think the point flew above a lot people's heads.

Yeah, I'm actually pretty surprised.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

This is such a telling thing that in a thread about racial expectations & prejudice, you
must respond to a post supposing that because you hold certain views, you are a particular
class & race, & ignorant of the larger world.
Btw, you write quite well for a non-white. Are you Asian? I don't even hear an accent.
(Note: Attempt at humor in last line.)

What makes it even more funny is...I used to work as a social worker. I must be totally naive and sheltered since that is what my former line of work does...it shelters you from all the harsh realities out there.

And no I am not an Asian but I was married to one. I am a Latina with some Jewish and Irish ancestry.

 

[Father Heathen]

My point was skin color has nothing to do with culture.

So back to the OP, saying a black person acting white is an Uncle Tom is racist.

Who the hell gets to decide how a person should act based on their skin color?

That sounds racist to me either by calling a white kid a wigger or a black man an Uncle Tom.

I agree with all of this. When I hear the term "Uncle Tom", I think of someone actually betraying or selling out their loyalties and identity for personal gain. I wouldn't consider an individual's refusal to conform to arbitrary social norms based on something as superficial as skin color to be a betrayal or selling out.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

My understanding is close to that, too, though I don't think the term is racist. I've heard it use loosely toward anyone coming from the inner city who move out of poverty and crime, and establish a suburban home. Most folks I know would consider that use of the term to be in error.

But, say for example, somebody who is black is able to take advantage of Affirmative Action programs, and then turn around and say such programs are bad for society and would rather systemic and cultural racism sort things out themselves (in a way distancing themselves from where they came from and demonizing their roots), typically are called out by other blacks as being "Uncle Toms."

 

[Revoltingest]

I am a Latina with some Jewish and Irish ancestry.

Hey, I wear loud obnoxious colors too!

(I had to google "latina stereotypes" to find that one.)

 

[columbus]

OFF DA HOOK UNCA TOM IN DA HOUSE

Boy it does sound pathetic doesn't it. :sorry1:

But it's true.
In a way it is reassuring to know that the culture of the USA has changed so much that meaning of the term Uncle Tom is so unimportant that it has been largely forgotten.

It wasn't a racist term originally, quite the contrary. It referred to a big obstacle in the 19th century. Both black people trying to escape oppression and the white people trying to help them had to contend with black collaborators with white slavers. Those people were the Uncle Toms.
It wasn't unique to black people in the USA in the 1800's. The Nazi's had Jewish collaborators. I'm sure that the concept has existed for as long as there have been violent oppressors.

But I really qualify as an Uncle Tom. Not just because I'm from a big Catholic family where having kids is a competitive sport.(The top three breeders in my dad's immediate family raised 22 kids. Then they went at it. My fingers would give out before I could taser all my nieces and nephews even if they were lined up on a Communion Rail.) Also because I'm a white guy who finds biracial babies peculiarly beautiful for the hope they give me and have worked with the local branch of the NAACP until I wound up on their executive board. I am a total race traitor, believing as I do that my real tribe is the human family. Not people who have skin and features similar to mine.

Confusing a motivated black person with good diction for an Uncle Tom is to completely miss the history of race traitors in the USA. I'm so glad that isn't a big deal to anyone any more.

Tom

ETA~ I didn't realize that RF would censor saggin in reverse. How quaint.~

 

[Valjean]

My two cents: Not racist. "Uncle Tom" isn't a criticism of race, but of behavior.
True, It is associated with race; generally denoting a black toady, but the racial overtones stem from its derivation, not its meaning.

On the other hand, when an ethnic community decides it doesn't like a term, that pretty much renders the term ethnically derogatory no matter what its origins. I don't think terms like uncle Tom or oreo have reached this stage, though.

 

[Drolefille]

Sorry but I do not think that white children of any class are cultural appropriating black culture just because they like rap and adopt elements of hip hop culture. They are finding a voice and it is giving them a sense of empowerment. I find it a little racist to suggest that black culture is foreign and unnatural for white people of any class.

It's like you ignore everything else I said to try to make another point entirely.

I was responding to your claim that the problem was because it was "beneath" someone. I never said it was "unnatural" or "foreign" for "white people of any class" so I'm glad you completely made up something to "find racist."

Quite simply there's a difference between adopting the trappings of a culture and adopting the culture itself. The one is tourism, the other is moving to a new home. The former reduces an entire culture to the superficial - the food, the dialect, the clothing, the music. Black culture is more than collard greens, AAVE (African American Vernacular English), sagging pants and bling, and hip hop. Equating adoption and appropriation is just wrong.

 

[Father Heathen]

But, say for example, somebody who is black is able to take advantage of Affirmative Action programs, and then turn around and say such programs are bad for society

"Take advantage"? Affirmative Action isn't exactly something they can opt into or out of. Unless you're saying that someone who is black but doesn't agree with Affirmative action should refrain from applying for employment? Perhaps they would like to know that they were hired due to their own merits rather than merely to meet some arbitrary quota.

and would rather systemic and cultural racism sort things out themselves (in a way distancing themselves from where they came from and demonizing their roots), typically are called out by other blacks as being "Uncle Toms."

You seem to imply that a rampant systematic and cultural racism would both be presumed and accepted by any minority individual who doesn't support affirmative action. What do you mean by "demonizing their roots"? To succeed by their own skills and abilities rather than coast on a crutch?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

"Take advantage"? Affirmative Action isn't exactly something they can opt into or out of. Unless you're saying that someone who is black but doesn't agree with Affirmative action should refrain from applying for employment? Perhaps they would like to know that they were hired due to their own merits rather than merely to meet some arbitrary quota.

Don't we all like to know we're hired based on our merits? The reality is that "soft discrimination" exists, and applications are thrown into the trash if the name doesn't sound white enough. To think that systemic racism and/or sexism doesn't exist is a very naive position to take.

I'm not saying you should agree with Affirmative Action, but it was placed there to combat the ability of employers and school administrators to deny employment or access to education without much of a reason. If there's a better option for ensuring the 14th Amendment is enforced, I'm all ears.

You seem to imply that a rampant systematic and cultural racism would both be presumed and accepted by any minority individual who doesn't support affirmative action.

No. What I'm saying is that it's entirely possible - and probable - that a person of minority status started out poor, was offered scholarships because of his/her ethnicity or socio-economic class, succeeded in that field of study or work, and then turned around and suggest that such opportunities should not exist.

What do you mean by "demonizing their roots"? To succeed by their own skills and abilities rather than coast on a crutch?

No. I'm talking about being offered an opportunity that he or she might not otherwise have had, taking that opportunity, and then suggesting that those same neighborhoods that he or she came from don't deserve that opportunity that they had.

 

[Falvlun]

My two cents: Not racist. "Uncle Tom" isn't a criticism of race, but of behavior.
True, It is associated with race; generally denoting a black toady, but the racial overtones stem from its derivation, not its meaning.

I think the origins of a term are important in determining whether it's appropriate to use or not. The origins of the word "Uncle Tom" make it racist, particularly when it is directed at an African-American.

You can make the same point about behavior without using racist terms. But to be honest, I don't know how claiming that someone is selling out his own race can be anything but racist.

 

[Sunstone]

The origins of the word "Uncle Tom" make it racist, particularly when it is directed at an African-American.

Could you be more specific? What is it about the origin of the term that makes it racist?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

You can make the same point about behavior without using racist terms. But to be honest, I don't know how claiming that someone is selling out his own race can be anything but racist.

I don't see how it can be anything but a comment on the character of that specific individual, and not a generalization regarding their entire race.

 

[Falvlun]

Could you be more specific? What is it about the origin of the term that makes it racist?

Because it was specifically designated as a term for black people, particularly black slaves, who brown-nosed (or were perceived to do so) to white people.

I don't see how it can be anything but a comment on the character of that specific individual, and not a generalization regarding their entire race.

I don't see it as a comment on the person's character, but rather an smear tactic against people from a disadvantaged position working with or for people (or acting like people) who are considered their "masters". It's a derogatory term, usually applied to black and white relations. Note too that the actions of the person being accused of being an Uncle Tom do not necessarily have to be bad objectively; they are deemed bad from the subjective lens of race. If a white person were doing the same thing as the black person, the white person would not be accused of being an Uncle Tom.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I don't see it as a comment on the person's character, but rather an smear tactic against people from a disadvantaged position working with or for people (or acting like people) who are considered their "masters".

I guess we have different understandings of the use and connotations of the phrase.

 

[Sunstone]

Because it was specifically designated as a term for black people, particularly black slaves, who brown-nosed (or were perceived to do so) to white people.

I'm not following how that would make it racist? Would you say the phrase, "Race Traitor", was racist? That is, after all, one meaning of the term, "Uncle Tom".

 

[Falvlun]

I guess we have different understandings of the use and connotations of the phrase.

What is the difference between your interpretation and mine?

I'm not following how that would make it racist? Would you say the phrase, "Race Traitor", was racist? That is, after all, one meaning of the term, "Uncle Tom".

Race Traitor would be racist too if it was judging a person's actions based on his race. But, as mentioned initially, I think the history of "Uncle Tom" is important, and makes this term definitely fall on the side of racism.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

What is the difference between your interpretation and mine?

That you think the term "Uncle Tom" is disparaging an entire race somehow, whereas I see see it as an insult to one person.

 

[Sunstone]

To me, "Uncle Tom" is not racist because it does not criticize someone's race, but rather his behavior. I'm just not seeing how it can be made into a term that criticizes someone's race, or criticize someone on the basis of their race. If I said, "Clarence is Black, and all Blacks are Uncle Toms", that would be racist. But if I say, "Clarence is an Uncle Tom", that's a criticism of Clarence, not a criticism of his race.

 

[Revoltingest]

That you think the term "Uncle Tom" is disparaging an entire race somehow, whereas I see see it as an insult to one person.

I see it as disparaging a person because of his race.
Even if the entire race isn't dissed, it still smells like racism.
Would other terms which dis only a portion of a race therefore not be racism?
Should this permissive standard also allow whites to make such references to blacks & other minorities?

Hmmm...looking at a sexism related analogy, I could call Hillary Clinton a "b**ch" because it refers to behavior.
The fact that the term originated with a group & still primarily applies to them would be irrelevant.