Is 'Veneration of the Saints' allowed by God?

[reddogs]

You can say they represent the Saints, yet they are still of wood or stone or metal, and people come and worship them no matter how it is called. Now what does scripture say, does God allow even the idol of a 'saint' or anything made as a idol, lets see...

"Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD;
Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols;
and turn away your faces from all your abominations."
-Ezekiel 14:6

So how as history shows us can a church declare its ok to embrace and the many statues, medals, relics, and artifacts to themselves as a sign of holiness unto God. However, the Creator specifically states...

Exodus 20:4, "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:"

Deuteronomy 29:17, "And ye have seen their abominations, and their idols, wood and stone, silver and gold, which were among them"

How can a church teach it's followers to bow down before these 'saints' when in prayer. I went to Rome and saw kneelers before every statue that were within the center of what some call the Christian church. However, as we read scripture is specifically states...

Exodus 20:5, "Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God,visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;"

Leviticus 26:1, "Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God."

Anything whether a graven image, or tall pole or obelisks as we find in front of many high places and temples turned to churches, nor image of stone, should not be bowed down to or 'venerated' or shown any type of worship or set up for that which belongs only to God.

 

[metis]

You can say they represent the Saints, yet they are still of wood or stone or metal, and people come and worship them no matter how it is called. Now what does scripture say, does God allow even the idol of a 'saint' or anything made as a idol, lets see...

How can a church teach it's followers to bow down before these 'saints' when in prayer. I went to Rome and saw kneelers before every statue that were within the center of what some call the Christian church. However, as we read scripture is specifically states...

First of all, an "idol" is something that one worships. It is against Catholic and Orthodox theology to worship anyone or anything but God.

Secondly, what constitutes a "graven image" is never defined in Torah, but what is clear is that whatever it may be it must not be worshiped. Also, "veneration" is not the same as "prayer".

Thirdly, the Ark of the Covenant had seraphims and cherubims on it, which were carved objects. Also, Moses had a serpent on his staff, and yet it seems that God didn't mind.

 

[SalixIncendium]

**THREAD MOVED TO RELIGIOUS DEBATES**​

 

[reddogs]

Except you don't venerate the statue, you venerate the saint the statue represents

Please explain that to the people who "worship" the idol in most countries especially the Hispanic countries as somehow the difference escapes most of them.

 

[reddogs]

First of all, an "idol" is something that one worships. It is against Catholic and Orthodox theology to worship anyone or anything but God.

Secondly, what constitutes a "graven image" is never defined in Torah, but what is clear is that whatever it may be it must not be worshiped. Also, "veneration" is not the same as "prayer".

Thirdly, the Ark of the Covenant had seraphims and cherubims on it, which were carved objects. Also, Moses had a serpent on his staff, and yet it seems that God didn't mind.

So you don't know a idol or graven image that is being worshipped even if its right before you then? Now as for the fiery serpent of bronze, it had to be destroyed for this very reason, the people began to worship it.

In the biblical Books of Kings (2 Kings 18:4; written c. 550 BCE), the Nehushtan (Hebrew: נחשתן Nəḥuštān [nə.ħuʃ.taːn]) is the derogatory name given to the bronze serpent on a pole first described in the Book of Numbers, which God told Moses to erect so that the Israelites who saw it would be protected from dying from the bites of the "fiery serpents" which God had sent to punish them for speaking against God and Moses Numbers 21:4-9. In Kings, King Hezekiah institutes an iconoclastic reform that requires the destruction of "the brazen serpent that Moses had made; for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it; and it was called Nehushtan". The term means "a brazen thing, a mere piece of brass".[1]

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Please explain that to the people who "worship" the idol in most countries especially the Hispanic countries as somehow the difference escapes most of them.

They don't "worship" the statue. They understand the difference perfectly.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

So you don't know a idol or graven image that is being worshipped even if its right before you then? Now as for the fiery serpent of bronze, it had to be destroyed for this very reason, the people began to worship it.

In the biblical Books of Kings (2 Kings 18:4; written c. 550 BCE), the Nehushtan (Hebrew: נחשתן Nəḥuštān [nə.ħuʃ.taːn]) is the derogatory name given to the bronze serpent on a pole first described in the Book of Numbers, which God told Moses to erect so that the Israelites who saw it would be protected from dying from the bites of the "fiery serpents" which God had sent to punish them for speaking against God and Moses Numbers 21:4-9. In Kings, King Hezekiah institutes an iconoclastic reform that requires the destruction of "the brazen serpent that Moses had made; for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it; and it was called Nehushtan". The term means "a brazen thing, a mere piece of brass".[1]

If you can't tell the difference between a statue and the thing it represents, that's on you. Catholics can.

 

[reddogs]

They don't "worship" the statue. They understand the difference perfectly.

Nope, they were worshiping the idol then going up on the high hilltops and then doing it but in the groves not any church.

 

[reddogs]

If you can't tell the difference between a statue and the thing it represents, that's on you. Catholics can.

So all the idols at the Vatican are not really idols, even though they used to be Jupiter rather than Peter, etc. Many Catholics pray for the help of the Virgin Mary but Mary is dead, buried in the ground and turned to dust, so why would Catholics pray to an idol of her much less any idol. As has been clearly established in the Bible that God is a jealous God and that one should not pray to any other save him and also do not encumber any images of anything in heaven or on earth. Jesus came to intercede on our behalf, so why would any Christian go to Mary or another saint. Jesus clearly said that no one comes to the Father except by him and he is our intercessor on our behalf. Christians can only pray to and worship the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, not Mary or statues of 'saints'.

Despite what many Catholics believe, there is much more idolatry in the Roman Catholic Church than one would imagine. It is possible that in some cases this may not be apparent in some Catholic Church but it does exist in a huge way is especially obvious in South America and in Rome. For example, the early church did not have any statues or idols, but as paganism was brought into the Catholic Church the pagan statues they were used to had to be given Christian names to allow them come in, the Statue of St Peter in St Peters Cathedral was originally the statue of the pagan god Jupiter. The Roman Goddess Venus became St. Venera, and Aphrodite became St. Aphrodite. The Roman God Mars was originally a God who guarded wheat fields. He became St. Martin, the major festival for him in Christian times now usually falls in February, called Mardi Gras 'Great Mars' The Roman God Quirinus became St. Cyrinus, Lares became St. Lawrence. Not all Pagan saints are even based on Pagan Gods. Some are based on Pagan holidays. For example the Roman festival of Caro Patri ( a festival to remember one's ancestors) in the Roman Pagan calendar of Philocalus became the festival of St. Peter';s Chair in the Roman Catholic Martyrology or saints calendar.

In the Catholic church there are said to be over 10,000 'saints' who have been created. Part of the reason is that many of these saints were created to provide a Christian focus for a local pagan god or religious tradition. Without a saint in place, the local customs would have continued in their original pagan guise and the local gods would have retained their pagan identity. The reason so many saints were created was to prevent this.

Now some claim that the statute of the saints are not being worshipped but if you look at the statue of Statue of St Peter in St Peters Cathedral, it has had its foot kissed away and replaced because of the multitude of Catholics that have bowed down to this statue and kissed its foot. There can be no other name for this other than idolatry, especially when this was originally a pagan god. There are many more such examples that could be given of where the Catholic Church is involved in worshiping other gods in forms other than statues. Many people don't realize that the biggest sun dial in the world is the eight-rayed sun wheel, which was symbolic of the god Ishtar and is located in St Peters Square in the Vatican.

Some dispute that Catholic Church leaders incorporated pagan images into their worship and even religious practices which came all the way from Babylon but even Catholic historians admit it.

& #8220;The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings on recovery from illness; holy water; asylums; holydays and seasons, use of calendars, processions, blessings on the fields; sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, images at a later date, perhaps the ecclesiastical chant, and the Kyrie Eleison are all of pagan origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church 'An Essay on The Development of the Christian Doctrine John Henry, Cardinal Newman; p.373.

"It has often been charged, that Catholicism is overlaid with many pagan incrustations. Catholicism is ready to accept that accusation and even to make it her boast the great god Pan is not really dead, he is baptized". The Story of Catholicism p 37.

"It is interesting to note how often our Church has availed herself of practices which were in common use among pagans. Thus it is true, in a certain sense, that some Catholic rites and ceremonies are a reproduction of those of pagan creeds"The Externals of the Catholic Church, Her Government, Ceremonies, Festivals, Sacramentals and Devotions, by John F. Sullivan, p 156, published by P.J. Kennedy, NY, 1942).

The College of Pontiffs (Collegium Pontificum) came from the religion of the original Council of Pontiffs at Babylon. Cardinal Newman in his Development of Christian Doctrine, says that they incorporated many pagan religious practices into the Church. He claims that the Church sanctified them and that made it safe to bring these practices into the Church. The Catholic Council of Trent also declared that, "It is lawful to have images in the Church and to give honour and worship to them ... Images are put in Churches that they may be worshipped".

That doesn't seem to leave much wiggle room to deny the true purpose of the idols.

 

[Vinayaka]

The Saiva Nayanars, and Vaishnava Alvars are venerated, in South Indian Hinduism. They're called Saints, but that may just be a poor Tamil to English translation. Not worshiped like Gods, but stories are told of their bhakti accomplishments. Some are more famous that others.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Nope, they were worshiping the idol then going up on the high hilltops and then doing it but in the groves not any church.

You don't know what you're talking about. Catholics don't worship idols, and I have no idea what you're talking about with hilltops and groves. Are you more interested in facts or blinded Catholic bashing?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

So all the idols at the Vatican are not really idols, even though they used to be Jupiter rather than Peter, etc. Many Catholics pray for the help of the Virgin Mary but Mary is dead, buried in the ground and turned to dust, so why would Catholics pray to an idol of her much less any idol. As has been clearly established in the Bible that God is a jealous God and that one should not pray to any other save him and also do not encumber any images of anything in heaven or on earth. Jesus came to intercede on our behalf, so why would any Christian go to Mary or another saint. Jesus clearly said that no one comes to the Father except by him and he is our intercessor on our behalf. Christians can only pray to and worship the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, not Mary or statues of 'saints'.

Despite what many Catholics believe, there is much more idolatry in the Roman Catholic Church than one would imagine. It is possible that in some cases this may not be apparent in some Catholic Church but it does exist in a huge way is especially obvious in South America and in Rome. For example, the early church did not have any statues or idols, but as paganism was brought into the Catholic Church the pagan statues they were used to had to be given Christian names to allow them come in, the Statue of St Peter in St Peters Cathedral was originally the statue of the pagan god Jupiter. The Roman Goddess Venus became St. Venera, and Aphrodite became St. Aphrodite. The Roman God Mars was originally a God who guarded wheat fields. He became St. Martin, the major festival for him in Christian times now usually falls in February, called Mardi Gras “Great Mars.” The Roman God Quirinus became St. Cyrinus, Lares became St. Lawrence. Not all Pagan saints are even based on Pagan Gods. Some are based on Pagan holidays. For example the Roman festival of Caro Patri (“Dear Parents” a festival to remember one’s ancestors) in the Roman Pagan calendar of Philocalus became the festival of St. Peter’s Chair in the Roman Catholic Martyrology or saints’ calendar.

In the Catholic church there are said to be over 10,000 'saints' who have been created. Part of the reason is that many of these saints were created to provide a Christian focus for a local pagan god or religious tradition. Without a saint in place, the local customs would have continued in their original pagan guise and the local gods would have retained their pagan identity. The reason so many saints were created was to prevent this.

Now some claim that the statute of the saints are not being worshipped but if you look at the statue of Statue of St Peter in St Peters Cathedral, it has had its foot kissed away and replaced because of the multitude of Catholics that have bowed down to this statue and kissed its foot. There can be no other name for this other than idolatry, especially when this was originally a pagan god. There are many more such examples that could be given of where the Catholic Church is involved in worshiping other gods in forms other than statues. Many people don't realize that the biggest sun dial in the world is the eight-rayed sun wheel, which was symbolic of the god Ishtar and is located in St Peters Square in the Vatican.

Some dispute that Catholic Church leaders incorporated pagan images into their worship and even religious practices which came all the way from Babylon but even Catholic historians admit it.

& #8220;The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings on recovery from illness; holy water; asylums; holydays and seasons, use of calendars, processions, blessings on the fields; sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, images at a later date, perhaps the ecclesiastical chant, and the Kyrie Eleison are all of pagan origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church.”— An Essay on The Development of the Christian Doctrine John Henry “Cardinal Newman” p.373.

& #8220;It has often been charged… that Catholicism is overlaid with many pagan incrustations. Catholicism is ready to accept that accusation and even to make it her boast… the great god Pan is not really dead, he is baptized”— The Story of Catholicism p 37.

& #8220;It is interesting to note how often our Church has availed herself of practices which were in common use among pagans … Thus it is true, in a certain sense, that some Catholic rites and ceremonies are a reproduction of those of pagan creeds…”—(The Externals of the Catholic Church, Her Government, Ceremonies, Festivals, Sacramentals and Devotions, by John F. Sullivan, p 156, published by P.J. Kennedy, NY, 1942).

The College of Pontiffs (Collegium Pontificum) came from the religion of the original Council of Pontiffs at Babylon. Cardinal Newman in his Development of Christian Doctrine, says that they incorporated many pagan religious practices into the Church. He claims that the Church sanctified them and that made it safe to bring these practices into the Church. The Catholic Council of Trent also declared that:“It is lawful to have images in the Church and to give honour and worship to them ... Images are put in Churches that they may be worshipped.”

That doesn't seem to leave much wiggle room to deny the true purpose of the idols.

Whatever dude. Believe what you want, but why does it bother you so much what Catholics do? We don't post endless false screeds about your church.

 

[sooda]

Please explain that to the people who "worship" the idol in most countries especially the Hispanic countries as somehow the difference escapes most of them.

Why do you believe that to be true? Saints and icons shouldn't be that big an issue unless you just want to get over on the other guy.

Visiting your grandfather's grave is not worship, its remembrance.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Why do you believe that to be true? Saints and icons shouldn't be that big an issue unless you just want to get over on the other guy.

Visiting your grandfather's grave is not worship, its remembrance.

SDAs have some very weird ideas about Catholics, and absolutely no desire to take correction on board. Believing ill of Catholicism seems to be a fairly fundamental plank of their faith, based on the constant misinformed Catholic bashing I see from them here and on similar forums. Can you imagine being the sort of person who insists to a member of another religion that you know more about their religion than they do? SDAs do it to Catholics all the time.

 

[sooda]

SDAs have some very weird ideas about Catholics, and absolutely no desire to take correction on board. Believing ill of Catholicism seems to be a fairly fundamental plank of their faith, based on the constant misinformed Catholic bashing I see from them here and on similar forums. Can you imagine being the sort of person who insists to a member of another religion that you know more about their religion than they do? SDAs do it to Catholics all the time.

I just find it very sad that trashing Catholics is the glue that holds them together. What else do they have in common?

 

[sooda]

So all the idols at the Vatican are not really idols, even though they used to be Jupiter rather than Peter, etc. Many Catholics pray for the help of the Virgin Mary but Mary is dead, buried in the ground and turned to dust, so why would Catholics pray to an idol of her much less any idol. As has been clearly established in the Bible that God is a jealous God and that one should not pray to any other save him and also do not encumber any images of anything in heaven or on earth. Jesus came to intercede on our behalf, so why would any Christian go to Mary or another saint. Jesus clearly said that no one comes to the Father except by him and he is our intercessor on our behalf. Christians can only pray to and worship the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, not Mary or statues of 'saints'.

Despite what many Catholics believe, there is much more idolatry in the Roman Catholic Church than one would imagine. It is possible that in some cases this may not be apparent in some Catholic Church but it does exist in a huge way is especially obvious in South America and in Rome. For example, the early church did not have any statues or idols, but as paganism was brought into the Catholic Church the pagan statues they were used to had to be given Christian names to allow them come in, the Statue of St Peter in St Peters Cathedral was originally the statue of the pagan god Jupiter. The Roman Goddess Venus became St. Venera, and Aphrodite became St. Aphrodite. The Roman God Mars was originally a God who guarded wheat fields. He became St. Martin, the major festival for him in Christian times now usually falls in February, called Mardi Gras “Great Mars.” The Roman God Quirinus became St. Cyrinus, Lares became St. Lawrence. Not all Pagan saints are even based on Pagan Gods. Some are based on Pagan holidays. For example the Roman festival of Caro Patri (“Dear Parents” a festival to remember one’s ancestors) in the Roman Pagan calendar of Philocalus became the festival of St. Peter’s Chair in the Roman Catholic Martyrology or saints’ calendar.

In the Catholic church there are said to be over 10,000 'saints' who have been created. Part of the reason is that many of these saints were created to provide a Christian focus for a local pagan god or religious tradition. Without a saint in place, the local customs would have continued in their original pagan guise and the local gods would have retained their pagan identity. The reason so many saints were created was to prevent this.

Now some claim that the statute of the saints are not being worshipped but if you look at the statue of Statue of St Peter in St Peters Cathedral, it has had its foot kissed away and replaced because of the multitude of Catholics that have bowed down to this statue and kissed its foot. There can be no other name for this other than idolatry, especially when this was originally a pagan god. There are many more such examples that could be given of where the Catholic Church is involved in worshiping other gods in forms other than statues. Many people don't realize that the biggest sun dial in the world is the eight-rayed sun wheel, which was symbolic of the god Ishtar and is located in St Peters Square in the Vatican.

Some dispute that Catholic Church leaders incorporated pagan images into their worship and even religious practices which came all the way from Babylon but even Catholic historians admit it.

& #8220;The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; votive offerings on recovery from illness; holy water; asylums; holydays and seasons, use of calendars, processions, blessings on the fields; sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the East, images at a later date, perhaps the ecclesiastical chant, and the Kyrie Eleison are all of pagan origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church.”— An Essay on The Development of the Christian Doctrine John Henry “Cardinal Newman” p.373.

& #8220;It has often been charged… that Catholicism is overlaid with many pagan incrustations. Catholicism is ready to accept that accusation and even to make it her boast… the great god Pan is not really dead, he is baptized”— The Story of Catholicism p 37.

& #8220;It is interesting to note how often our Church has availed herself of practices which were in common use among pagans … Thus it is true, in a certain sense, that some Catholic rites and ceremonies are a reproduction of those of pagan creeds…”—(The Externals of the Catholic Church, Her Government, Ceremonies, Festivals, Sacramentals and Devotions, by John F. Sullivan, p 156, published by P.J. Kennedy, NY, 1942).

The College of Pontiffs (Collegium Pontificum) came from the religion of the original Council of Pontiffs at Babylon. Cardinal Newman in his Development of Christian Doctrine, says that they incorporated many pagan religious practices into the Church. He claims that the Church sanctified them and that made it safe to bring these practices into the Church. The Catholic Council of Trent also declared that:“It is lawful to have images in the Church and to give honour and worship to them ... Images are put in Churches that they may be worshipped.”

That doesn't seem to leave much wiggle room to deny the true purpose of the idols.

The “Council of Pontiffs at Babylon” is the system set up by Semiramis after the death of Nimrod. In this system, the bottom-of-the-barrel commoners went to a priest to make a confession of his or her sins, exactly the way Catholics do today. This practice has its roots in Baal worship and is found in nearly all the Mystery Religions.

Judaism and Christianity evolved from the Canaanite pantheon.. So what?

 

[Diamond]

You can say they represent the Saints, yet they are still of wood or stone or metal, and people come and worship them no matter how it is called. Now what does scripture say, does God allow even the idol of a 'saint' or anything made as a idol, lets see...

"Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD;
Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols;
and turn away your faces from all your abominations."
-Ezekiel 14:6

So how as history shows us can a church declare its ok to embrace and the many statues, medals, relics, and artifacts to themselves as a sign of holiness unto God. However, the Creator specifically states...
but its okay for CHRISTIANS to kneel before the Cross made of wood or medal etx.

Exodus 20:4, "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:"

Deuteronomy 29:17, "And ye have seen their abominations, and their idols, wood and stone, silver and gold, which were among them"

How can a church teach it's followers to bow down before these 'saints' when in prayer. I went to Rome and saw kneelers before every statue that were within the center of what some call the Christian church. However, as we read scripture is specifically states...

Exodus 20:5, "Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God,visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;"

Leviticus 26:1, "Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God."

Anything whether a graven image, or tall pole or obelisks as we find in front of many high places and temples turned to churches, nor image of stone, should not be bowed down to or 'venerated' or shown any type of worship or set up for that which belongs only to God.

 

[sooda]

SDAs have some very weird ideas about Catholics, and absolutely no desire to take correction on board. Believing ill of Catholicism seems to be a fairly fundamental plank of their faith, based on the constant misinformed Catholic bashing I see from them here and on similar forums. Can you imagine being the sort of person who insists to a member of another religion that you know more about their religion than they do? SDAs do it to Catholics all the time.

Fear of modernity and change will always drive some people back to fundamentalism and magical thinking. Its happening to many in the Muslim world now..

 

[reddogs]

You don't know what you're talking about. Catholics don't worship idols, and I have no idea what you're talking about with hilltops and groves. Are you more interested in facts or blinded Catholic bashing?

Go down to the Caribbean or Central or South America and take a look, it wont be hard to find. Now if you check, the Oxford dictionary defines an idol as:“' An image used as an object of worship. A person or thing that is the object of excessive devotion.”' .

So an Idolater is a worshiper or devoted admirer of idols but what does the Bible say about images and idols?

1. Exodus 20:4-5
“Thou shalt not MAKE unto thee ANY graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not BOW DOWN thyself to them Nor SERVE them.”

2. Leviticus 26:1
“You shall make you NO IDOLS nor GRAVEN IMAGE. Neither rear you up a STANDING IMAGE. Neither shall ye set up any IMAGE OF STONE in your land to bow down unto it.”

3. Deuteronomy 4:16
“Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and MAKE you a GRAVEN IMAGE, the similitude of ANY FIGURE, the likeness of MALE or FEMALE.”

4. Deuteronomy 16:22
“Neither shalt thou SET thee UP ANY IMAGE: which the Lord thy God HATES.”

5. 1 Thessalonians 1:9
“How ye turned to God FROM IDOLS to serve the living and true God.”

6. Deuteronomy 27:15
“CURSED be the man that MAKES ANY GRAVEN or MOLTEN IMAGE, an abomination unto the Lord, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place.”

The early Christians followed what the Bible said and turned from any idol worship and kept them out of the church and did not allow any images. Early Christian writers such as Irenaeus, Clement, Cyprian, Athanasius and Jerome wrote strongly against images, statues and any manner of prayer or veneration regarding them. The church councils voted repeatedly to keep out any images or idols as they knew the danger.

So when the church at Rome began to allow it into the church they faced a paradox in what the Commandments said and what they were doing, but it didn't take long for them to get around what Gods Commandments said. The Catholic Church in its version of the Bible, removes the second Commandment against making graven images from the list of the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20:1-17. This presents them with the problem of only having 9 Commandments. They resolve this problem by splitting Commandment number 10 into 9 and 10. That is: 9. You shall not covet your neighbour's wife. 10. You shall not covet your neighbour's goods.

But do you think God is fooled by this.....

And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother

 

[metis]

So you don't know a idol or graven image that is being worshipped even if its right before you then? Now as for the fiery serpent of bronze, it had to be destroyed for this very reason, the people began to worship it.

You ignored what I said about the Ark of the Covenant and the serpent on Moses' staff, and then you come back with the above, which mentions that they "worship it". Catholic Canon Law does not allow that to be done, which already was explained to you.