Is war a humane notion? A human notion?

[Estro Felino]

I mean...in the Nineteenth Century a great man called Charles Darwin explained that humans were animals, in ancient times. Animals that evolved into something more intelligent and sophisticated that can think and than can use the word, instead of violence.

Au contraire, yesterday I was watching a documentary about the savanna... animals fighting against one another and killing each other for defending their territory.
War is an animal notion. It's everywhere in the animal world.

The fact that wars still exist and that people still fabricate weapons demonstrate that we are not any different than them...we wage wars among different species and among similar species.

So I was asking: why do people (assuming people have evolved from the animal stage) call themselves human but still fabricate weapons that they use to wage wars?

Thank you in advance.

 

[Estro Felino]

Freud (Jenseits des Lustprinzips) also stated that there is a inextricable link between Eros and Thanatos.
Between the lust or sexless love and the sadistic pleasure in seeing people suffering.
Sadistic people, those who love war and love to shoot are the same people whose sex activities are characterized by very animalistic patterns that involve no romance or tenderness.

Freud and Darwin would agree on so many things.

 

[Estro Felino]

As we can see in this movie. Here Nazis set a Belarusan village on fire. They literally burn people alive inside a church.
The Soviet Partisans capture a group of Nazis and pro-Nazi Belarusians who scream like pigs before being slaughtered because they don't want to die. So they just kill people out of sadistic pleasure and don't think of what they have done, and don't want to die.

Hannah Arendt would say that evil is incredibly banal: banal and childish.

 

[sayak83]

I mean...in the Nineteenth Century a great man called Charles Darwin explained that humans were animals, in ancient times. Animals that evolved into something more intelligent and sophisticated that can think and than can use the word, instead of violence.

Au contraire, yesterday I was watching a documentary about the savanna... animals fighting against one another and killing each other for defending their territory.
War is an animal notion. It's everywhere in the animal world.

The fact that wars still exist and that people still fabricate weapons demonstrate that we are not any different than them...we wage wars among different species and among similar species.

So I was asking: why do people (assuming people have evolved from the animal stage) call themselves human but still fabricate weapons that they use to wage wars?

Thank you in advance.

We are still 100% animals. The scariest animal on the planet actually
Animals fear humans more than lions as 'super predators'.
A new study, published in Current Biology has reported that humans instill a level of fear in animals that significantly surpasses that of lions and other natural predators. The findings revealed that animals, such as giraffes, leopards, zebras, warthogs and hyenas, were twice as likely to flee, and they abandoned waterholes 40% faster in response to human stimuli than they did when encountering lions, or even hunting sounds such as gunshots and barking dogs.

 

[wellwisher]

War appears to have two main purposes. Humans over populate and war thins the herd and strengths the rest through cross breeding. War is connected more to the males which like the bulls or rooster, fewer are required for breeding. Men are veal of war.

War is also very destructive and by doing so, allows room for new growth. The old way will not go away on its own. If it is not broken do not fix it. So you sometimes need to break it to fix it. A forest fire is needed to open the canopy and allow light for the wild flowers.

In ancient times the more advanced cultures would subdue the lessor, allowing the lessor to upgrade. The slavery of the Jews to Egypt, allowed them to advance their practical skills, before setting off on their own again with Moses, who himself learned the most by being accepted at the top level.

Ironically, the Dark Ages, were dominated by cultures with less advanced sophistication, Barbarians. The ancient dispensation needed to end; BC to AD, so a new type of person and culture could appear. In the West, that was the Holy Roman Empire.

I am more of a pacifist, but I can respect those who were driven by the evolutionary impulses of war.

 

[Estro Felino]

We are still 100% animals. The scariest animal on the planet actually

I am not.
I have evolved from the animal stage.
I know many others haven't.

Animals fear humans more than lions as 'super predators'.
A new study, published in Current Biology has reported that humans instill a level of fear in animals that significantly surpasses that of lions and other natural predators. The findings revealed that animals, such as giraffes, leopards, zebras, warthogs and hyenas, were twice as likely to flee, and they abandoned waterholes 40% faster in response to human stimuli than they did when encountering lions, or even hunting sounds such as gunshots and barking dogs.

The survival instinct, the desperate will to live, despite the awareness that we are mortals and that we will have to die someday..is what makes us animals. Unevolved.
Why did so many Germans obey Nazis' orders? Because they didn't want to die. They didn't want to be shot right away.
I wouldn't have obeyed them. I would have slapped them right in the face...and they would have shot me, right away.

I can suggest you to read The Drowned and the Saved by Primo Levi.

 

[Estro Felino]

War appears to have two main purposes. Humans over populate and war thins the herd and strengths the rest through cross breeding. War is connected more to the males which like the bulls or rooster, fewer are required for breeding. Men are veal of war.

As for us humans...there is contraception, sterilization.
I mean...so many possibilities to avoid overpopulation.

 

[HonestJoe]

So I was asking: why do people (assuming people have evolved from the animal stage) call themselves human but still fabricate weapons that they use to wage wars?

Doesn't the fact we do support the position that we are still very much animals? We have some unique or well developed characteristics, but still have a vast amount in common with other animals all the same.

It could also be argued that the development of human intelligence and the complexities of our societies make war and conflict in general more likely rather than less so. The assumption that humans developing further from other animals is automatically a good thing is fundamentally flawed. The chances are that plenty of other species will survive us when we go extinct, however that may come about.

 

[Estro Felino]

Doesn't the fact we do support the position that we are still very much animals? We have some unique or well developed characteristics, but still have a vast amount in common with other animals all the same.

Nietzsche said that man is a rope stretched between the beast and the overman. By overman he means a man that can overcome the limits of material existence and understand.
We are different than animals because we can engage in thinking.
That's what Hannah Arendt in The Banality of Evil wrote:

It could also be argued that the development of human intelligence and the complexities of our societies make war and conflict in general more likely rather than less so. The assumption that humans developing further from other animals is automatically a good thing is fundamentally flawed. The chances are that plenty of other species will survive us when we go extinct, however that may come about.

Survival instinct if what animals have.
Extinction can be a problem to atheists who probably believe that they will go on living for eternity through their own offspring. (delusional).
But we theists believe in an afterlife, so we couldn't care less that there are no humans left on Earth, because the afterlife is what matters.

 

[☆Dreamwind☆]

It's not only a human notion. Two species of bugs have been shown to wage war, and in the case of the slave driver ants, carry off the dead colony's young to become their workforce.

 

[PureX]

I mean...in the Nineteenth Century a great man called Charles Darwin explained that humans were animals, in ancient times. Animals that evolved into something more intelligent and sophisticated that can think and than can use the word, instead of violence.

Au contraire, yesterday I was watching a documentary about the savanna... animals fighting against one another and killing each other for defending their territory.
War is an animal notion. It's everywhere in the animal world.

The fact that wars still exist and that people still fabricate weapons demonstrate that we are not any different than them...we wage wars among different species and among similar species.

So I was asking: why do people (assuming people have evolved from the animal stage) call themselves human but still fabricate weapons that they use to wage wars?

Thank you in advance.

We are still in the process of transcending our animal nature. So we often fall back into it even though we can sometimes rise above it.

 

[Stevicus]

I mean...in the Nineteenth Century a great man called Charles Darwin explained that humans were animals, in ancient times. Animals that evolved into something more intelligent and sophisticated that can think and than can use the word, instead of violence.

Au contraire, yesterday I was watching a documentary about the savanna... animals fighting against one another and killing each other for defending their territory.
War is an animal notion. It's everywhere in the animal world.

The fact that wars still exist and that people still fabricate weapons demonstrate that we are not any different than them...we wage wars among different species and among similar species.

So I was asking: why do people (assuming people have evolved from the animal stage) call themselves human but still fabricate weapons that they use to wage wars?

Thank you in advance.

Well, it's certainly a sad aspect of the animal world, including humans, fighting and killing and war. Humans can often feel regret and deep remorse, along with sadness, shame, and self-reflection. Not sure if other animals feel those things. Also, the reason other animals fight is often easily discerned and generally rooted in base survival instincts. Humans invent all kinds of complicated and often ridiculous reasons for going to war.

If you see two lions fighting each other on the savanna, what are they fighting about? Probably because one thinks the other is moving in on his lionesses. Lions will fight each other for that reason, as well as over food, territory, or just to survive - so that the other lion doesn't kill him first.

Sometimes, lions will fight out of a sense of pride. (ba-da-bum)

The main difference with humans is that we have lingual abilities to foster more sophisticated communication, coupled with an inherent social nature which is conducive towards a cooperative and community mindset. The same basic instincts are in place - survival, protection of their progeny, food supply, and control of the surrounding territory to be on guard for any threats or invaders. That would include other humans from other clans and tribes, who might fight each other for reasons similar to why the two lions are fighting each other.

Politics is a process of persuading others to be on your side, so you stand a better chance of defeating your rivals. That seems to be the main difference. Among other things, this entails a sense of cooperation and bond within one's own community, which would also necessitate certain morals and codes for behavior in interacting with one another in a community. But when they go off to raid and pillage some enemy village, they weren't inclined to follow those moral codes - and they saw no reason why they should.

But over time, humans slowly improved along those lines and began to embrace a more enlightened viewpoint (at least on a theoretical basis). At least as far back as 2000 years ago, at least some people had embraced the idea that humans should love one another and follow the Golden Rule and turn the other cheek and all that. "Human shall not kill human." Seems straightforward enough. Even lions and apes haven't gotten that far, but at least some humans got around to actually saying it, even if it didn't really get practiced enough.

 

[Estro Felino]

@Revoltingest
You asked me a question about Trump.
Trump has never started any war in his four years of presidency. .

 

[Secret Chief]

I am not.
I have evolved from the animal stage.
I know many others haven't.


The survival instinct, the desperate will to live, despite the awareness that we are mortals and that we will have to die someday..is what makes us animals. Unevolved.
Why did so many Germans obey Nazis' orders? Because they didn't want to die. They didn't want to be shot right away.
I wouldn't have obeyed them. I would have slapped them right in the face...and they would have shot me, right away.

I can suggest you to read The Drowned and the Saved by Primo Levi.

For the millionth time. You are an animal. You are a Great Ape.
Hominidae - Wikipedia

 

[Estro Felino]

For the millionth time. You are an animal. You are a Great Ape.
Hominidae - Wikipedia

I am not.
I can speak and write, and in 5 languages...which means I have evolved from that stage.

 

[Revoltingest]

@Revoltingest
You asked me a question about Trump.
Trump has never started any war in his four years of presidency. .

Trump did start a war with Iran, but
aborted it before shots were fired.
He also currently supports Israel's
genocide of Palestinians.

 

[Estro Felino]

Well, it's certainly a sad aspect of the animal world, including humans, fighting and killing and war. Humans can often feel regret and deep remorse, along with sadness, shame, and self-reflection. Not sure if other animals feel those things. Also, the reason other animals fight is often easily discerned and generally rooted in base survival instincts. Humans invent all kinds of complicated and often ridiculous reasons for going to war.

Exactly.
Humans should overcome the fear of death coming from survival instinct.
Heidegger has written so much about it. And before him, Schopenhauer.

If you see two lions fighting each other on the savanna, what are they fighting about? Probably because one thinks the other is moving in on his lionesses. Lions will fight each other for that reason, as well as over food, territory, or just to survive - so that the other lion doesn't kill him first.

Humans wage war for the same reasons. Territory. Resources. Clans.

Sometimes, lions will fight out of a sense of pride. (ba-da-bum)

So do humans.

The main difference with humans is that we have lingual abilities to foster more sophisticated communication, coupled with an inherent social nature which is conducive towards a cooperative and community mindset. The same basic instincts are in place - survival, protection of their progeny, food supply, and control of the surrounding territory to be on guard for any threats or invaders. That would include other humans from other clans and tribes, who might fight each other for reasons similar to why the two lions are fighting each other.

The problem is that humans perceive themselves as animals, even in relations.
Sex is still seen as procreation. To perpetuate the species. It should be seen as something more idealized.

But over time, humans slowly improved along those lines and began to embrace a more enlightened viewpoint (at least on a theoretical basis). At least as far back as 2000 years ago, at least some people had embraced the idea that humans should love one another and follow the Golden Rule and turn the other cheek and all that. "Human shall not kill human." Seems straightforward enough. Even lions and apes haven't gotten that far, but at least some humans got around to actually saying it, even if it didn't really get practiced enough.

Well said.
Or at least...after WW2, I thought war would disappear from the vocabulary of European countries,
and yet some politicians speak of it. They are normalizing the word.
And this is utterly disgusting,

I know...you wouldn't understand. You were on the winning side. So you probably see war as something positive. Synonymous with victory.

We are taught at school that war is something primitive and animalistic. And Hitler and Mussolini are associated with this notion.

 

[Estro Felino]

Trump did start a war with Iran, but
aborted it before shots were fired.

You are admitting he didn't start it.

He also currently supports Israel's
genocide of Palestinians.

He is not the president right now...so...

 

[Twilight Hue]

I mean...in the Nineteenth Century a great man called Charles Darwin explained that humans were animals, in ancient times. Animals that evolved into something more intelligent and sophisticated that can think and than can use the word, instead of violence.

Au contraire, yesterday I was watching a documentary about the savanna... animals fighting against one another and killing each other for defending their territory.
War is an animal notion. It's everywhere in the animal world.

The fact that wars still exist and that people still fabricate weapons demonstrate that we are not any different than them...we wage wars among different species and among similar species.

So I was asking: why do people (assuming people have evolved from the animal stage) call themselves human but still fabricate weapons that they use to wage wars?

Thank you in advance.

It's because we are animals and always will be, and evolution is just as hardwired as any other creature on this planet.

 

[Revoltingest]

You are admitting he didn't start it.

He is not the president right now...so...

You might not have noticed that
he's the leading candidate in the
2024 election.