Is witchcraft a faith that deserves respect?

[ChristineM]

I fail to understand why witchcraft is considered a religion.

Nevertheless, Wicca, Voodoo, Santeria are all witchcraft based and classed as religions.

 

[Estro Felino]

Nevertheless, Wicca, Voodoo, Santeria are all witchcraft based and classed as religions.

pauvre Voltaire....je n'ose pas imaginer ce qu'il pense de tout ça

 

[Mindmaster]

I think you misunderstood, many of the witches who died in the witch hunts weren't even witches, anything that was remotely akin to witchcraft could get you dead, like a cat being a familiar

Yeah, virtually none of them were "witches". There was also a lot of historic folk magic going on and those beliefs didn't die with the influx of Christianity.

 

[ChristineM]

pauvre Voltaire....je n'ose pas imaginer ce qu'il pense de tout ça

Dead almost quarter of a millennium, is that relevant?
I think his thoughts on freedom of religion may startle you

 

[ChristineM]

I think you misunderstood, many of the witches who died in the witch hunts weren't even witches, anything that was remotely akin to witchcraft could get you dead, like a cat being a familiar

I understood that many of the murdered (certainly in my area of Lancashire) were "knowledgeable" women who were handy to have around during a birth. Cheaper than doctors with (perhaps) more idea of childbearing. Doctors were not happy about that and did a little finger pointing.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

With only a couple of exceptions, the posts in this thread have been based on total ignorance, so let's try to clarity.

Many (most?) societies have believed in people who practice evil magic or possess powers like the "evil eye". In backward countries like Saudi Arabia and the Congo, you can get killed for it. In the Middle Ages, the Church did its best to deny what one pope condemned as "peasant superstition". After the Reformation, the Protestant peasants (and the manorial lords, little better educated) were free to go witch hunting. In Cavlinist areas, there was quite an epidemic; in Lutheran ones, it was rare; in Italy and Spain not one person was ever burnt as a witch.

In the 19th century, Protestants found that embarrassing and speculated that the "witches" must have done something. Could they have been secret pagans? In the 20th century, the archeologist Margaret Murray wrote a book making that claim which, because she was famous, was believed by many. Subsequently, Gerald Gardner, who practiced magic, decided to restore the "ancient religion" she had imagined and Wicca (aka Witchcraft) was born.

So we have a terminological confusion: a witch can be (1) a person imagined to have evil powers or (2) a follower of the practices set out by Gardner and his successors. I always use to terms Wicca and Wiccan to avoid this; those "Witches" who don't use the term Wiccan for some reason or other often rebuke me. I ignore them.

Wiccans are a mixed bunch. Almost all practice magic. Many also consider it a religion, although some are atheists. Those who do consider it a religion may be monotheists, duotheists, or polytheists.

Since they don't attempt to force their beliefs on others like Christians and Muslims, I personally consider them worthy of respect — except perhaps the atheists.

 

[England my lionheart]

I understood that many of the murdered (certainly in my area of Lancashire) were "knowledgeable" women who were handy to have around during a birth. Cheaper than doctors with (perhaps) more idea of childbearing. Doctors were not happy about that and did a little finger pointing.

Exactly, like Salem, finger pointing

 

[Samantha Rinne]

Some weeks ago the mods moderated a post of mine which said "Those who believe in witchcraft are retarded".
I didn't expect that phrase to be considered against the rules of a religious forum.
Nevertheless, it was a phrase I borrowed from an Italian anthropologist, Cecilia Gatto Trocchi with whom I identify a lot. She's a secularist like me. A rationalist like me. A fan of French Enlightenment like me.

Okay, to be clear, what you basically said was not that a religion was retarded. But that people were retarded for believing in a certain thing.

I need to explain this more.

Witchcraft is the idea that humans, by saying some words and waving around some objects, can make things happen. Honestly, you'd probably find alot of people to agree with you, just as alot of people would legit say psychics are nonsense as are seances. But what you said was that "people are retarded for believing in this stuff."

Wicca is the religion. It's based on nature worship. Witchcraft is the practice of magic, whether most of us believe it's superstition or not.

 

[England my lionheart]

Yeah, virtually none of them were "witches". There was also a lot of historic folk magic going on and those beliefs didn't die with the influx of Christianity.

No they didn't,I do T have a problem with that, at least they didn't proselytise

 

[dianaiad]

Nevertheless, it was a phrase I borrowed from an Italian anthropologist, Cecilia Gatto Trocchi with whom I identify a lot. She's a secularist like me. A rationalist like me. A fan of French Enlightenment like me.

Well...she basically says that certain beliefs, since Enlightenment took place, don't deserve respect..and tolerating them is an insult to the values of the European Civilization.

And who are you, that you are the arbitor of what insults European Civilization? Serious question, seriously asked.

Here's my opinion, for what it's worth; a BELIEF may not "deserve respect,' but the people who believe in them do. I don't believe in Wicca, because I believe in something else. I don't 'do' witchcraft or what counts as paganism in these modern times, either. However, I DO believe in my own system, which is one of the only Christian systems I know about that has 'freedom of religion' actually encoded in its creed. We call that Articles of Faith, and it's #11, all about claiming the right to worship as WE please, and allowing everybody else to worship however they want...or not...as they please.

The point here is that intolerance of other people's religious beliefs has been the cause of more downright murder than almost anything else, except ambition to acquire land/power. I look with a VERY jaundiced eye at those who think that they can exclude/ insult/ persecute others because of religious disagreements. I've been on the receiving end of such...stuff...too many times.

You might also consider that just as you feel justified in 'not tolerating' those who believe differently from you, that they, if they ever get the numbers (and even if they don't) might feel justified in not tolerating YOU.

I really hate being on the 'target' side of this stuff, and I will not be on the other side. Nor will I stay silent when others show their, er...attitudes regarding tolerance/intolerance, and the preservation of European or American culture. Which attitude is, of course, baloney in the first place.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Nevertheless, it was a phrase I borrowed from an Italian anthropologist, Cecilia Gatto Trocchi with whom I identify a lot. She's a secularist like me. A rationalist like me. A fan of French Enlightenment like me.

You consider yourself a rationalist?

Well...she basically says that certain beliefs, since Enlightenment took place, don't deserve respect..and tolerating them is an insult to the values of the European Civilization.

IMO, "the values of European civilization" could stand a bit of insult.

 

[Estro Felino]

Which attitude is, of course, baloney in the first place.

OMG

 

[dianaiad]

OMG

????

Perhaps my post wasn't written clearly. Let me try again.

The attitude that the preservation of "European" or American culture and society is dependent upon not tolerating things like, oh, witchcraft (Wicca...) or minority beliefs is baloney. Does that clear things up?

 

[rocala]

I don't think anyone is hanging witches anymore. (Well looked that up and apparently some countries still do that,

Make your mind up.

but not here

Where is here? Ever hear of the world wide web?

No one wants to target them with scorn or discrimination for their beliefs

Are you sure about that?

The big problem is when a fantasy belief is debunked by modern science and the believers try to hold up their belief as something equal to science

What has that got to do with the post?

In my example a spell of protection and speed on a craft designed to carry you to the moon as opposed to a team of engineers.

I am not sure what moon you are refering to as I do not know what planet you are on.

 

[Klepperman]

Witchcraft is in the Bible so it is truth.

 

[Shad]

To answer the OP it is a hard No

 

[Bear Wild]

Nevertheless, it was a phrase I borrowed from an Italian anthropologist, Cecilia Gatto Trocchi with whom I identify a lot. She's a secularist like me. A rationalist like me. A fan of French Enlightenment like me.

Well...she basically says that certain beliefs, since Enlightenment took place, don't deserve respect..and tolerating them is an insult to the values of the European Civilization.

Historically since most people accused of witchcraft were Christians then what we really see is an intolerance of different beliefs of the same faith. There is no doubt that pre-Christian rituals and beliefs continued beyond when all of the pre-Christian religions had died out they were converted into Christian rituals despites their origins. But the actual witch trials were clearly against Christians. Many of those who continued the folk traditions were seen as outside of the "official religion" practices and thus often targeted as a threat when convenient. One example is the literal extermination of the Cathars branded as heretics and burned for their beliefs. They considered themselves as Christians and interestingly felt women as a central aspect of the faith unlike the predominant Roman Catholic religion. Intolerance lead to the murder of the Cathars. Witchcraft was seen as anything not acceptable to those in power whether Christian or not. After the Cathars there was a long history of false accusations to both men and women sometimes for political gain. Clearly it represents the worst of intolerance.

The development of Wicca did not occur until the lifting of the witchcraft law in England. It was the start of the "pagan" reconstruction where they no longer saw themselves as Christian and worked to adopt a belief that they saw was a religion of the pre-Christian era. This movement was influenced in many ways by the renaissance movement and the romantic movements as well as the interest in the "classical" Greek and Roman as well as interest in past Egyptian culture.

Witchcraft has also been so distorted by Hollywood and misinterpreted by inaccurate history. Those who died accused of witchcraft deserve our respect for the injustice done. Those who practice what could be considered modern witchcraft which is a blend of ideas with a belief in the magical aspects of the world deserve as much respect as those who believe in miracles.

 

[Estro Felino]

Witchcraft has also been so distorted by Hollywood and misinterpreted by inaccurate history. Those who died accused of witchcraft deserve our respect for the injustice done. Those who practice what could be considered modern witchcraft which is a blend of ideas with a belief in the magical aspects of the world deserve as much respect as those who believe in miracles.

One day science will be able to explain miracles too...
Witchcraft basically says that ritual processes can change the nature of things, which is wrong and irrational, as Professor Gatto Trocchi says

 

[Bear Wild]

One day science will be able to explain miracles too...
Witchcraft basically says that ritual processes can change the nature of things, which is wrong and irrational, as Professor Gatto Trocchi says

It is no more irrational that Christianity with its miracles and prayers for god to intervene. Why pick on witchcraft when it is no more irrational than other religions. Unfortunately it is also so misunderstood from preconceived and frank intentional deceiving information from the religion the persecuted those who were different. It is wrong to not respect it any more or less than any religious belief.

 

[Milton Platt]

Nevertheless, it was a phrase I borrowed from an Italian anthropologist, Cecilia Gatto Trocchi with whom I identify a lot. She's a secularist like me. A rationalist like me. A fan of French Enlightenment like me.

Well...she basically says that certain beliefs, since Enlightenment took place, don't deserve respect..and tolerating them is an insult to the values of the European Civilization.

Not all beliefs deserve respect, religious or not.