Is Yahweh A Liar? Yes, He Is. I Can Prove It.

[leroy]

Your question is vague. Can you be specific what you are asking about?

You claimed that there is evidence against the existence of the census that Luke reports in the nativity story.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Only with your own personal and irrelevant definition of “independent”

Wrong again. It appears that you do not want to face reality.

But one more time. All of your sources went through a filter of sorts. Iff they did not meet the requirements of that filter books of that time were rejected. That means that they are all dependent upon that filter. The competitors were often destroyed. That means that your sources can no longer claim to be independent. If their mythical views did not meet the man chosen standards they were rejected. There are no competing sources except for a couple of versions that were hidden away. We do not have the full gamut of opinions from that time so you can not claim that your sources are indepenent.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You claimed that there is evidence against the existence of the census that Luke reports in the nativity story.

No, you have it backwards. Luke screwed up in his Nativity. We do have very strong evidence for the census that he mentions. It was the Census of Quirinius. He made it clear that it occurred when Quirinius first became governor of Syria, the date of that is well known. The date of his census is well known. Luke screwed the pooch. He was confused about that even since he referred to it again later on in his writings.

 

[leroy]

Wrong again. It appears that you do not want to face reality.

But one more time. All of your sources went through a filter of sorts. Iff they did not meet the requirements of that filter books of that time were rejected. That means that they are all dependent upon that filter. The competitors were often destroyed. That means that your sources can no longer claim to be independent. If their mythical views did not meet the man chosen standards they were rejected. There are no competing sources except for a couple of versions that were hidden away. We do not have the full gamut of opinions from that time so you can not claim that your sources are indepenent.

The filter was only there to determine which documents would be part of the canon; the documents would still exists exactly as they are even without the filter. The filters didn’t determine the content, but rather the content was already there centuries before the filters.

Imagine that you have 20 independent testimonies from survivors of the holocaust, (10jewish and 10 non-Jewish testimonies)

Then let’s say that for whatever reason you decided to use only Jewish testimonies to right your book …. Would that change the fact that you still have 10 independent sources?.... no.... (even if you destroy non jewish testimonies, that would not change the fact that you still have 10 independent sources)

.
I don’t think there is evidence that any “competitor” was burned care to provide the evidence?

 

[leroy]

No, you have it backwards. Luke screwed up in his Nativity. We do have very strong evidence for the census that he mentions. It was the Census of Quirinius. He made it clear that it occurred when Quirinius first became governor of Syria, the date of that is well known. The date of his census is well known. Luke screwed the pooch. He was confused about that even since he referred to it again later on in his writings.

So what’s the supposed mistake that Luke made?

 

[Subduction Zone]

The filter was only there to determine which documents would be part of the canon; the documents would still exists exactly as they are even without the filter. The filters didn’t determine the content, but rather the content was already there centuries before the filters.

Imagine that you have 20 independent testimonies from survivors of the holocaust, (10jewish and 10 non-Jewish testimonies)

Then let’s say that for whatever reason you decided to use only Jewish testimonies to right your book …. Would that change the fact that you still have 10 independent sources?.... no.... (even if you destroy non jewish testimonies, that would not change the fact that you still have 10 independent sources)

.
I don’t think there is evidence that any “competitor” was burned care to provide the evidence?

Sorry, that excuse fails. You tried to claim that your sources were independent and the filter makes that no longer so. This is not that hard to understand.

Your analogy fails. I am sure that you do not understand why.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So what’s the supposed mistake that Luke made?

Luke has a ten year pregnancy for Mary,.

You need to reread the myth.

 

[leroy]

Sorry, that excuse fails. You tried to claim that your sources were independent and the filter makes that no longer so. This is not that hard to understand.

Your analogy fails. I am sure that you do not understand why.

So just to be clear, before the cannon of the new testament (say the year 400) these documents where independent, but after that date they became no longer independent….is that what you are saying?

Yes I WHAT TO KNOW WHY MY ANALOGY IOF THE HOLOCAUST FAILS.

 

[leroy]

Luke has a ten year pregnancy for Mary,.

.

Why?

 

[Subduction Zone]

So just to be clear, before the cannon of the new testament (say the year 400) these documents where independent, but after that date they became no longer independent….is that what you are saying?

Yes I WHAT TO KNOW WHY MY ANALOGY IOF THE HOLOCAUST FAILS.

Actually they were not independent, as already explained. The Gospels are all based upon Mark, John to a lesser degree than the other two, but still when you get your ideas from one of the sources the ones that rely on it are not independent. When you put it through an artificial filter and then destroy competing sources those are definitely not independent.

As to your foolish Holocaust example, did the publishers try to destroy all works not included in their works and try to deny the existence of competing accounts? If not your analogy fails.

Try again.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Why?

He has her knocked up at the time of Herod's rule.

 

[leroy]

Actually they were not independent, as already explained. The Gospels are all based upon Mark, John to a lesser degree than the other two, but still when you get your ideas from one of the sources the ones that rely on it are not independent. When you put it through an artificial filter and then destroy competing sources those are definitely not independent.

As to your foolish Holocaust example, did the publishers try to destroy all works not included in their works and try to deny the existence of competing accounts? If not your analogy fails.

Try again.

As to your foolish Holocaust example, did the publishers try to destroy all works not included in their works and try to deny the existence of competing accounts? If not your analogy fails.

well lets say they did.............. if you have 10 independent testimonies for the holocaust, they would still be independent even if someone burns and destroy competing accounts.

Not to mention that you haven’t provide any evidence that Christians burned and destroyed other accounts, the apocryphal Gospels are and have always been widely available for anyone to read.

The Gospels are all based upon Mark, John to a lesser degree than the other two, but still when you get your ideas from one of the sources the ones that rely on it are not independent.

The narratives corresponding to the burial of Jesus are truly independent.

Mark uses an early creed as a source

Matt and Luke used a common source

John uses his own source

And Paul uses his own source.


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But even if all the gosples copied from Mark, you still have Paul as an independent source.

 

[leroy]

He has her knocked up at the time of Herod's rule.

And why couldn’t there be another census during that time?

 

[Subduction Zone]

well lets say they did.............. if you have 10 independent testimonies for the holocaust, they would still be independent even if someone burns and destroy competing accounts.

Not to mention that you haven’t provide any evidence that Christians burned and destroyed other accounts, the apocryphal Gospels are and have always been widely available for anyone to read.



The narratives corresponding to the burial of Jesus are truly independent.

Mark uses an early creed as a source

Matt and Luke used a common source

John uses his own source

And Paul uses his own source.


----
But even if all the gosples copied from Mark, you still have Paul as an independent source.

Sorry, I am done explaining this to you.

 

[Subduction Zone]

And why couldn’t there be another census during that time?

Because Herod's kingdom was a client state and there would have been no Roman census. He paid tribute, people were not taxed individually by Rome. This is some fairly basic history.

This puts the burden of proof upon believers since they are claiming as a historical event something that goes against history. Do you understand this?

 

[leroy]

Sorry, I am done explaining this to you.

so you are running away rather than admitting your mistake?

 

[leroy]

Because Herod's kingdom was a client state and there would have been no Roman census. He paid tribute, people were not taxed individually by Rome. This is some fairly basic history.

This puts the burden of proof upon believers since they are claiming as a historical event something that goes against history. Do you understand this?

and why couldn't there be a census in a client state?

 

[Subduction Zone]

so you are running away rather than admitting your mistake?

No, that is your strategy. I explained your error to you countless times. You refuse to understand it. You had no answer to it. There is nothing to run away from. All you get is corrections after aa while.

 

[Subduction Zone]

and why couldn't there be a census in a client state?

Because Rome had neither the power nor reason to do so. I do believe that this was already explained to you. Client states paid tribute, not taxes.

 

[leroy]

No, that is your strategy. I explained your error to you countless times. You refuse to understand it. You had no answer to it. There is nothing to run away from. All you get is corrections after aa while.

Claiming an arbitrary and irrelevant conspiracy theory with “filters” is not an explanation