Is YHVH Omni-Anything?

[ThirtyThree]

No it doesn't mean that G-d isn't vengeful because He can't be and He's just putting up a front. Its saying that G-d is essentially not vengeful because revenge is not a concept that can be applied to G-d's self. That doesn't mean that G-d will not respond to sin, because G-d will punish sin. And that punishment for sin, appears to us as revenge, so it is termed vengeance. And this is what the verse is letting us know: do not sin, because G-d will extract punishment. But it is not because G-d is essentially vengeful, rather vengeance is an attribute that He makes use of and is removed from him as much as a fire is not a coal.

Why did YHVH regret creating Adam? Why did he cause the flood, only to promise not to again with a bow in the sky?

 

[ThirtyThree]

Because He is G-d and He said so. And because this connection ultimately will bestow me with the greatest possible pleasure.

Explain this "greatest possible pleasure".

 

[Tumah]

Why did YHVH regret creating Adam? Why did he cause the flood, only to promise not to again with a bow in the sky?

Regret is how it appears from our perspective. We see G-d lead the world in a certain direction, than there's a backtrack. But G-d Himself does not regret.

 

[Tumah]

Explain this "greatest possible pleasure".

great
ɡrāt/
adjective
superlative adjective: greatest

1. 1.
   of an extent, amount, or intensity considerably above the normal or average.

pos·si·ble
ˈpäsəb(ə)l/
adjective

1. 1.
   able to be done; within the power or capacity of someone or something.

pleas·ure
ˈpleZHər/
noun

1. 1.
   a feeling of happy satisfaction and enjoyment.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

See Rashi Avos 5:1

Sorry, but I'm at the dealership getting standard maintenance on my car. Are you telling me that in Avos 5:1 Rashi reverses his view that Gen 1:1 is in the construct state?

 

[Tumah]

Sorry, but I'm at the dealership getting standard maintenance on my car. Are you telling me that in Avos 5:1 Rashi reverses his view that Gen 1:1 is in the construct state?

I don't think its a reversal because Rashi in Avos is just reiterating a Talmudic passage. I presume he knew the passage before he wrote his commentary on Tanach. The Talmud counts the first verse of Genesis as one of the 10 statements of the creation of the world even though that isn't evident from the verse. I don't think Rashi's saying anything more than that. He's explaining how to read the verse, but is not saying that the verse is also not one of the creation verses.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

He's explaining how to read the verse, but is not saying that the verse is also not one of the creation verses.

I do not understand this. If he views Gen. 1:1 as being in the construct state, it is not a statement of Creation Ex Nihilo. That does not necessarily mean that he doesn't believe in such a creation, but it does mean that Gen. 1:1 cannot serve as prooftext.

 

[Tumah]

I do not understand this. If he views Gen. 1:1 as being in the construct state, it is not a statement of Creation Ex Nihilo. That does not necessarily mean that he doesn't believe in such a creation, but it does mean that Gen. 1:1 cannot serve as prooftext.

See Rosh Hashanah 32a and Rashi c"v "Genesis is also"

 

[Demonslayer]

But it is not because G-d is essentially vengeful, rather vengeance is an attribute that He makes use of and is removed from him as much as a fire is not a coal.

It's just a weird idea you have with this, IMO. This idea that God is a certain way, but want's to appear another way.

So God is not vengeful, but he wants to appear vengeful because he wants to make sure we all realize He will punish us for his sins.

But yet you seem to have this great understanding of God's trickery here right? Like somehow God 1) isn't really vengeful 2) wants to appear vengeful, but 3) you have seen through it and recognize the truth about God's not-really-vengeful nature.

Doesn't that mean God's attempt to appear vengeful has failed miserably? I mean here you are, explaining to everyone that God's attempt to appear vengeful is just a ruse to keep us in line. How does All Mighty God attempt to appear some way...but us mere humans can see right through it? I mean if the most powerful being ever wanted to appear vengeful, wouldn't we just see him as vengeful? How can such a powerful thing try to appear a certain way, but you see through it?

Also, it just seems very un-God like to want to "appear" one way while actually being another way. What need would a God have to posture like that? We know he damns people for sinning. He doesn't have to fake a personality trait to get that point across.

Odd idea, just feeling it out.

 

[ThirtyThree]

Regret is how it appears from our perspective. We see G-d lead the world in a certain direction, than there's a backtrack. But G-d Himself does not regret.

Yet, Scripture uses the term, repented, in relation to YHVH's perspective regarding creating Adam. Are you expressing that Scripture is simply man's perspective of YHVH, rather than the inspired word of him?

 

[ThirtyThree]

It's just a weird idea you have with this, IMO. This idea that God is a certain way, but want's to appear another way.

So God is not vengeful, but he wants to appear vengeful because he wants to make sure we all realize He will punish us for his sins.

But yet you seem to have this great understanding of God's trickery here right? Like somehow God 1) isn't really vengeful 2) wants to appear vengeful, but 3) you have seen through it and recognize the truth about God's not-really-vengeful nature.

Doesn't that mean God's attempt to appear vengeful has failed miserably? I mean here you are, explaining to everyone that God's attempt to appear vengeful is just a ruse to keep us in line. How does All Mighty God attempt to appear some way...but us mere humans can see right through it? I mean if the most powerful being ever wanted to appear vengeful, wouldn't we just see him as vengeful? How can such a powerful thing try to appear a certain way, but you see through it?

Also, it just seems very un-God like to want to "appear" one way while actually being another way. What need would a God have to posture like that? We know he damns people for sinning. He doesn't have to fake a personality trait to get that point across.

Odd idea, just feeling it out.

I do not get it either.

So, YHVH is a deceiver?

 

[Tumah]

It's just a weird idea you have with this, IMO. This idea that God is a certain way, but want's to appear another way.

So God is not vengeful, but he wants to appear vengeful because he wants to make sure we all realize He will punish us for his sins.

But yet you seem to have this great understanding of God's trickery here right? Like somehow God 1) isn't really vengeful 2) wants to appear vengeful, but 3) you have seen through it and recognize the truth about God's not-really-vengeful nature.

Doesn't that mean God's attempt to appear vengeful has failed miserably? I mean here you are, explaining to everyone that God's attempt to appear vengeful is just a ruse to keep us in line. How does All Mighty God attempt to appear some way...but us mere humans can see right through it? I mean if the most powerful being ever wanted to appear vengeful, wouldn't we just see him as vengeful? How can such a powerful thing try to appear a certain way, but you see through it?

Also, it just seems very un-God like to want to "appear" one way while actually being another way. What need would a God have to posture like that? We know he damns people for sinning. He doesn't have to fake a personality trait to get that point across.

Odd idea, just feeling it out.

I think you are not completely understanding what I'm saying. Let's start with apophatic theology. We can't use any adjectives to describe G-d. Any adjective, aside from His oneness, is intrinsically false. That being said, there needs to be some type of commonality between Him and the creation. So G-d creates certain attributes that are not otherwise inherent to Him with which He uses to run the world. Kind of like a glove to handle hot food (its a little more complicated then that, but this is fine for here). G-d is not essentially vengeful, but one of the tools that He created to run the world, is the tool that extracts justice. From our perspective, this appears as vengeance for sinning. But its not because G-d is ultimately vengeful, rather its our perception of G-d's "tool" called justice, in action.
Its not meant as a way to scare us, or to hide His true nature. Its to let us understand the tools that He created to handle us.

 

[Tumah]

Yet, Scripture uses the term, repented, in relation to YHVH's perspective regarding creating Adam. Are you expressing that Scripture is simply man's perspective of YHVH, rather than the inspired word of him?

Those two things are related.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

See Rosh Hashanah 32a and Rashi c"v "Genesis is also"

Will I find the claim about construct state rescinded?

 

[ThirtyThree]

I think you are not completely understanding what I'm saying. Let's start with apophatic theology. We can't use any adjectives to describe G-d. Any adjective, aside from His oneness, is intrinsically false. That being said, there needs to be some type of commonality between Him and the creation. So G-d creates certain attributes that are not otherwise inherent to Him with which He uses to run the world. Kind of like a glove to handle hot food (its a little more complicated then that, but this is fine for here). G-d is not essentially vengeful, but one of the tools that He created to run the world, is the tool that extracts justice. From our perspective, this appears as vengeance for sinning. But its not because G-d is ultimately vengeful, rather its our perception of G-d's "tool" called justice, in action.
Its not meant as a way to scare us, or to hide His true nature. Its to let us understand the tools that He created to handle us.

Why does an omnimax being require such tools to "handle" creations? None of this makes sense. Is "Satan", likewise, in your belief, another "tool"? Just what is YHVH's end goal with the Adam? Why even create Adam, or anything? What is not, why do you even bother worshipping this being? You said to gain greatest pleasure. Are you sure you will get such a thing? What must you do to get it, anyways?

 

[Tumah]

Will I find the claim about construct state rescinded?

Rabbi Yochanan says, for the ten sayings through which the world was created. Which are they? [The number of times it says] "And He said" in Bereishis are only 9 [in total]?
[The verse of] "In the beginning" is also a saying, as it is written, "With the word of G-d, the Heavens were created (Psa. 33)."​

Rashi:

In the beginning is also a saying: And even though it doesn't say 'Let there be Heavens', it is like it says it. Because they were also created with a saying and not with [His] hands, as it says, "With the word of G-d, the Heavens were created (Psa. 33)."​

 

[ThirtyThree]

Rabbi Yochanan says, for the ten sayings through which the world was created. Which are they? [The number of times it says] "And He said" in Bereishis are only 9 [in total]?
[The verse of] "In the beginning" is also a saying, as it is written, "With the word of G-d, the Heavens were created (Psa. 33)."​

Rashi:

In the beginning is also a saying: And even though it doesn't say 'Let there be Heavens', it is like it says it. Because they were also created with a saying and not with [His] hands, as it says, "With the word of G-d, the Heavens were created (Psa. 33)."​

Just what is the "word"? Christians often assume the"word" was his son, as odd as that sounds to me.

 

[Tumah]

Why does an omnimax being require such tools to "handle" creations?

The concept of omnimax as you understand it, contradicts apophatic theology and G-d's unity.

None of this makes sense.

Just because you do not understand it, doesn't mean it is not understandable, right?

Is "Satan", likewise, in your belief, another "tool"?

Yes, but not in the way we are speaking here. We are talking about properties, not entities.

Just what is YHVH's end goal with the Adam?

End goal with Adam? Adam is already dead.

Why even create Adam, or anything?

Ultimately? If I can't even begin to comprehend G-d's existence, how can I comprehend G-d's thought?

What is not, why do you even bother worshipping this being? You said to gain greatest pleasure.

I'm not even sure whether a question mark indicates a question for you anymore.

Are you sure you will get such a thing?

Yes. G-d can neither lie nor tell the truth. G-d doesn't speak. He either causes potential or actualizes it. It follows then, that prophecy of the future, is when a prophet perceives the potential that G-d has caused. So if my prophets say that I will get such a thing, then it must be waiting for its terms to be fulfilled so that it can manifest.

What must you do to get it, anyways?

Become as connected to G-d as I can according to the system that He created.

 

[Tumah]

Just what is the "word"? Christians often assume the"word" was his son, as odd as that sounds to me.

The "word" is not an entity. It means [in relation to G-d], to cause something to manifest.

 

[ThirtyThree]

Yes, but not in the way we are speaking here. We are talking about properties, not entities.

Explain.