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Isaiah 1:8.

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
Those familiar with the Oracle at Delphi ---and the stories related to it ----are aware that as history records it, the authentic oracles of the ancient world possessed preternatural powers that truly boggle the mind. Often times the oracle would give names that were impossible for the oracle to know, which were off by one or two letters (or phonemes as it were), but which undeniably contained the spirit of the name in question. They gave the names of places related to their patron's query, which they couldn't possibly know, and at times remarked on future events that took place very much within the scope of their prophetic utterance. . . With that said, we have perhaps an even more amazing and a far greater oracle in the cross-hairs of our examination ---the Oracle of Jerusalem -----the prophet Isaiah.​

In the essay on Isaiah 66:17-21, quoted above, we see that just as he did in the case of Cyrus the Great, so too with Paul of Tarsus, the great Jewish oracle Isaiah is wont to produce names and places, long before they occur, and in a manner that parallels the Oracle at Delphi. When Cyrus the Great was shown that Isaiah spoke of him hundreds of years before his birth, he was so moved that he liberated the Jews from their captivity. We don't know if Paul was aware Isaiah prophesied concerning his collection of monies from his Gentile churches to bring to Jerusalem? But we see Paul's name and birth-place in Isaiah, even as we see the name of Cyrus presaged in the same prophet. With this great cloud of witnesses, it behooves us to show that Isaiah reveals the name of the city found out in the gospels as the residence of an important would-be Jewish messiah.



John
 
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John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
Those familiar with the Oracle at Delphi ---and the stories related to it ----are aware that as history records it, the authentic oracles of the ancient world possessed preternatural powers that truly boggle the mind. Often times the oracle would give names that were impossible for the oracle to know, which were off by one or two letters (or phonemes as it were), but which undeniably contained the spirit of the name in question. They gave the names of places related to their patron's query, which they couldn't possibly know, and at times remarked on future events that took place very much within the scope of their prophetic utterance. . . With that said, we have perhaps an even more amazing and a far greater oracle in the cross-hairs of our examination ---the Oracle of Jerusalem -----the prophet Isaiah.​

In the essay on Isaiah 66:17-21 quoted above, we see that just as he did in the case of Cyrus the Great, so too with Paul of Tarsus, the great Jewish oracle Isaiah is wont to produce names and places, long before they occur, and in a manner that parallel the Oracle at Delphi. When Cyrus the Great was shown that Isaiah spoke of him hundreds of years before his birth, he was so moved that he liberated the Jews from their captivity. We don't know if Paul was aware Isaiah prophesied concerning his collection of monies from his Gentile churches to bring to Jerusalem? But we see Paul's name and birth-place in Isaiah, even as we see the name of Cyrus presaged in the same prophet. With this great cloud of witnesses, it behooves us to show that Isaiah reveals the name of the city found out in the gospels as the residence of an important would-be Jewish messiah.

The Christian Messiah, so Judaism points out, is nowhere spoken of in the Tanakh. And yet in Isaiah 48:6, and this according to none other than the great Nachmanides, Isaiah reveals, though it's still "hidden" from Judaism, the name and face of God. Nachmanides (Ramban) connects Isaiah 48:6 with Deuteronomy 31:17-18, where, in the latter, God states that he's hiding has face/name from Israel for their stiff-neck-ed-ness. Isaiah claims in 48:6 that this verse (48:6) is the mezuzah, the doorpost, to the prophet's latter chapters, where the face of God, hidden from Israel in Deuteronomy chapter 31, is going to finally be revealed for all to see.

As Ibn Ezra points out, the Hebrew word "Nazareth" in Isaiah 48:6, is confounding since it's interpreted as a word for "hidden," though nothing is the target of the hiding in the verse? Ibn Ezra is clear that the translations speak of hidden "things." But there's nothing in the Hebrew to justify the imposition of "things" in the verse. The very word "Nazareth" in Isaiah 48:6 (translated "hidden") is one of the scriptures most unpolished gems, a name is "hidden" in the word translated "hidden." What's hidden in Isaiah 48:6, isn't explicitly given, since it's hiding in the word translated "hidden" (נצרות "Nazareth"). The face of God, hidden way back in Deuteronomy 31, is revealed in Isaiah 48:6 (as noted by Nachmanides) and is going to be remarked on again and again throughout Deutero-Isaiah.



John
 
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John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
The Christian Messiah, so Judaism points out, is nowhere spoken of in the Tanakh. And yet in Isaiah 48:6, and this according to none other than the great Nachmanides, Isaiah reveals, though it's still "hidden" from Judaism, the name and face of God. Nachmanides (Ramban) connects Isaiah 48:6 with Deuteronomy 31:17-18, where, in the latter, God states that he's hiding has face/name from Israel for their stiff-neck-ed-ness. Isaiah claims in 48:6 that this verse (48:6) is the mezuzah, the doorpost, to the prophet's latter chapters, where the face of God, hidden from Israel in Deuteronomy chapter 31, is going to finally be revealed for all to see.

As Ibn Ezra points out, the Hebrew word "Nazareth" in Isaiah 48:6, is confounding since it's interpreted as "hidden" though nothing is the target of the hiding in the verse? Ibn Ezra is clear that the translations speak of hidden "things." But there's nothing in the Hebrew to justify the imposition of "things" in the verse. The very word "Nazareth" in Isaiah 48:6 (translated "hidden") is one of the scriptures most unpolished gems, a name is "hidden" in the word translated "hidden." What's hidden in Isaiah 48:6, isn't explicitly given, since it's hiding in the word "hidden" (נצרות "Nazareth"). The face of God, hidden way back in Deuteronomy 31, is revealed in Isaiah 48:6 (as noted by Nachmanides) and is going to be remarked on again and again throughout Deutero-Isaiah.
ונותרה בת–ציון כסכה בכרם כמלונה במקשה בעיר נצורה​
And the daughter of Zion is left as a sukkah in a vineyard, a guard house in a cucumber patch: the city of Nazareth.​
Isaiah 1:8.​

The last two words in Isaiah 1:8 (בעיר נצורה) speak of the "city of Nazareth." The city is noted in this, the very beginning of Isaiah, as the city where the remnant of the righteous through grace ----i.e., the daughter of Zion ---- will seek refuge from the storm that comes on Jerusalem in AD 70. The next verse points out that without this city of refuge, this guardhouse in a "cucumber patch" (??), the whole of Israel would have been left as,"Sodom, and like unto Gomorrah." Without the refuge of Nazareth, Israel would have been wiped clean like Sodom and Gomorrah.
Therefore I would place the desires of my soul in the open gates of Your death . . . I, a poor creature, taken captive by Thine anger, can do nothing before Thee; only I would bury myself in Your wounds and death. Oh great mercy of God, release me from the chains of the devil.​
Jacob Bohme.​




John
 
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Ebionite

Well-Known Member
The very word "Nazareth" in Isaiah 48:6 (translated "hidden") is one of the scriptures most unpolished gems, a name is "hidden" in the word translated "hidden."
The root נצר is also translated as watchman.

I will stand upon my watch, and set me upon the tower, and will watch to see what he will say unto me, and what I shall answer when I am reproved.
Habakkuk 2:1

Behold, his soul [which] is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, [he is] a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and [is] as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people:
Habakkuk 2:4-5

The oppose of pride is humility

But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
James 4:6

Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all [of you] be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
1 Peter 5:5

As the truth of Christ is in me, no man shall stop me of this boasting in the regions of Achaia.
2 Corinthians 11:10

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Romans 1:17
 
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Ebionite

Well-Known Member
ונותרה בת–ציון כסכה בכרם כמלונה במקשה בעיר נצורהAnd the daughter of Zion is left as a sukkah in a vineyard, a guard house in a cucumber garden: the city of Nazareth.Isaiah 1:8.
From the sole of the foot even unto the head [there is] no soundness in it; [but] wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment.
Your country [is] desolate, your cities [are] burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and [it is] desolate, as overthrown by strangers.
And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city.
Isaiah 1:6-8

When Ephraim saw his sickness, and Judah [saw] his wound, then went Ephraim to the Assyrian, and sent to king Jareb: yet could he not heal you, nor cure you of your wound.
For I [will be] unto Ephraim as a lion, and as a young lion to the house of Judah: I, [even] I, will tear and go away; I will take away, and none shall rescue [him].
Hosea 5:13-14

The verses from Hosea 5 lead into two verses from Hosea 6 which are referenced by the gospels, Hosea 6:2 (resurrection) and Hosea 6:6 (sacrifice).
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
The last two words in Isaiah 1:8 (בעיר נצורה) speak of the "city of Nazareth." The city is noted in this, the very beginning of Isaiah, as the city where the remnant of the righteous through grace ----i.e., the daughter of Zion ---- will seek refuge from the storm that comes on Jerusalem in AD 70. The next verse points out that without this city of refuge, this guardhouse in a "cucumber garden" (??), the whole of Israel would have been left as,"Sodom, and like unto Gomorrah." Without the refuge of Nazareth, Israel would have been wiped clean like Sodom and Gomorrah.

As a footnote to the idea that without Nazareth Israel would have been left like Sodom and Gomorrah, we have the irony that although the Christians have been antiSemitic from the start, nevertheless, without them, and their unique brand of antiSemitism, all of Israel would have been annihilated (ala Sodom and Gomorrah) by means of the genocidal antiSemitism that exists outside the non-genocidal form found in Christianity. History records that notwithstanding the undeniable antiSemitism of the Christians, nevertheless, because of their paradoxical (love/hate) attitude toward Israel, it's not in the Christians or Christianity to practice a genocidal form of antiSemitism. It wasn't until the pagan atheist Adolf Hitler came to power in the Christian nation of Germany that the most outrageous modern strain of genocidal antiSemitism showed its true face. Ironically, it was the most Christian nation that has ever existed (a modern day Nazareth if you will) that defeated Hitler and his genocidal antiSemitism. Not only was the USA the home of the Nazarenes, but many of the survivors of Hitler's holocaust found refuge in this Nazarene nation without which, Israel would have become as Sodom, and like unto Gomorrah.



John
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
The root נצר is also translated as watchman.

I will stand upon my watch, and set me upon the tower, and will watch to see what he will say unto me, and what I shall answer when I am reproved.
Habakkuk 2:1
I don't see the consonants nun-tsadi-reish נצר anywhere in Habakkuk 2:1?

Behold, his soul [which] is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, [he is] a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and [is] as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people:
Habakkuk 2:4-5

Nor in Habakkuk 2:4-6?



John
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
Your country [is] desolate, your cities [are] burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and [it is] desolate, as overthrown by strangers.
And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city.
Isaiah 1:6-8

The key here, is partly verse nine, which claims if not for the refuge of the city of Nazareth, all of Israel would be annihilated like Sodom and Gomorrah. The Hebrew has the word "city" before the word "Nazareth" so that at best it would be "besieged city." Context implies that the city is none other than Nazareth. Which is to suggest that in his station as Oracle of oracles, Isaiah names the very city associated with the future messianic deliverance.




John
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
The last two words in Isaiah 1:8 (בעיר נצורה) speak of the "city of Nazareth." The city is noted in this, the very beginning of Isaiah, as the city where the remnant of the righteous through grace ----i.e., the daughter of Zion ---- will seek refuge from the storm that comes on Jerusalem in AD 70. The next verse points out that without this city of refuge, this guardhouse in a "cucumber garden" (??), the whole of Israel would have been left as,"Sodom, and like unto Gomorrah." Without the refuge of Nazareth, Israel would have been wiped clean like Sodom and Gomorrah.

A second footnote would note that the word being interpreted "Nazareth," as in the "city of Nazareth" (בעיר נצורה), appears to be a copyist's error and an incorrect form (of נצרות). Isaiah 1:8 is the only place in the Tanakh this strange form is found. Part and parcel of the likelihood the vav is erroneously moved to before the reish rather than after it, and the tav made a heh, is the strange fact that Klein's Dictionary points out that in modern Hebrew, the consonants (נצורה) found only in Isaiah 1:8, mean to convert to Christianity. The Dictionary relates the consonants נצרות to the same meaning: convert to Christianity, or to be, a Christian. In other words, in Klein's Dictionary, the consonants found in Isaiah 1:8 (נצורה) parallel the word "Nazareth" נצרות.



John
 
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Yokefellow

Active Member
This verse...

Isaiah 65:2
"I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;"


Reminds me of this verse...

Exodus 17:11-12
"And it came to pass, when Moses held up his hand, that Israel prevailed: and when he let down his hand, Amalek prevailed. But Moses’ hands were heavy; and they took a stone, and put it under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun."


Your PDF mentions a 'banner'...

Exodus 17:15 (New Living Translation)
Moses built an altar there and named it Yahweh-Nissi (which means “the LORD is my banner”).


Moses was carrying a 'rod'...

Exodus 17:9
"And Moses said unto Joshua, Choose us out men, and go out, fight with Amalek: to morrow I will stand on the top of the hill with the rod of God in mine hand."


Does that relate to the 'Branch' that is lifted up that you mention in your PDF? Moses lifted the Serpent on a Pole. Maybe there is a connection.

On a related note, there are many who believe that Paul is a type of Moses...

Paul vs Moses.png

 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
A second footnote would note that the word being interpreted "Nazareth," as in the "city of Nazareth" (בעיר נצורה), appears to be a copyist's error and an incorrect form (of נצרות).
I'm skeptical about נצורה being a copyist error because Nazareth wasn't one of the six cities of refuge.

the strange fact that Klein's Dictionary points out that in modern Hebrew, the consonants (נצורה) found only in Isaiah 1:8, mean to convert to Christianity
This meaning would seem to be a doctrinal interpretation rather than a linguistic one.

As well as the wound, another connection between Isaiah 1 and the gospels is animal sacrifice.

To what purpose [is] the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith YHWH: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
Isaiah 1:11

For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
Hosea 6:6

But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Matthew 9:13
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
Moses lifted the Serpent on a Pole
The serpent on the pole relates to the rod:
And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as YHWH had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent.
Exodus 7:10

... and to the crucifixion:

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
John 3:14

Moses lifted the serpent to heal the people, which relates to the wound of Isaiah 1:6 and Hosea 5:13. Healing also is relevant for the righteous servant of Isaiah 53:
But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Isaiah 53:5

On a related note, there are many who believe that Paul is a type of Moses...
Paul's problem with the law of Moses is what led to the riot at the temple and to his eventual appeal to Caesar.

Paul even went as far as to defame Moses:

And not as Moses, [which] put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
2 Corinthians 3:13
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
This verse...

Isaiah 65:2
"I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;"


Reminds me of this verse...

Exodus 17:11-12
"And it came to pass, when Moses held up his hand, that Israel prevailed: and when he let down his hand, Amalek prevailed. But Moses’ hands were heavy; and they took a stone, and put it under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun."


Your PDF mentions a 'banner'...

Exodus 17:15 (New Living Translation)
Moses built an altar there and named it Yahweh-Nissi (which means “the LORD is my banner”).


Moses was carrying a 'rod'...

Exodus 17:9
"And Moses said unto Joshua, Choose us out men, and go out, fight with Amalek: to morrow I will stand on the top of the hill with the rod of God in mine hand."


Does that relate to the 'Branch' that is lifted up that you mention in your PDF? Moses lifted the Serpent on a Pole. Maybe there is a connection.

You're onto one of the most important and unknown secrets in the scripture, a secret that might secrete into the fundamentals of this thread if it reaches its mark.

In the same location you spied the PDF you refer to, there are eleven essays on Nehushtan. Nehushtan is not only the same rod Moses possessed when he saw God for the first time, its the rod of God that splits the sea, purifies the water, kills Israel's enemies and heals and saves them throughout the Tanakh. It's even referred to as the "Testimony" prior to the receiving of the tablets of the Law. It's literally the emblem of the "Branch" noted in Zechariah 6:12. Stripped naked (Isa. 52:10), it's better referred to as Nehushtan the Nazarene.

On a related note, there are many who believe that Paul is a type of Moses...

View attachment 83869

If you're interested in the relationship between Moses and Paul, man do I ever have an essay for you. A brilliant Jewish Professor, Jacob Taubes, uncovered relationships between Moses and Paul, in a little book called, The Political Theology of Paul, that are literally shocking. Unfortunately, many of the few who've read Taubes' book read right over the shocking revelations he gives such that they were unearthed in a thread here last year redacted into the essay, Moses and Paul in Taubes' Judaism. Though no man is hated more than Paul in many orthodox Jewish circles, and though Taubes was a practicing Jew, he writes:

This is the point at which little Jacob Taubes comes along and enters into the business of gathering the heretic back into the fold, because I regard him ----this is my own personal business----as more Jewish than any Reform rabbi, or any Liberal rabbi, I ever heard in Germany, England, America, Switzerland, or anywhere else.​
Jacob Taubes, The Political Theology of Paul, Introduction.​

Taubes goes much further than gathering Paul into the Jewish fold. He uncovers theological nuances that should rupture some of the barriers between Judaism and Christianity.




John
 
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John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
I'm skeptical about נצורה being a copyist error because Nazareth wasn't one of the six cities of refuge.
You seem to be misreading what I said (or I said it wrong)? I'm convinced the city in Isaiah 1:8 is Nazareth. But the normal Hebrew spelling of Nazareth is נצרות (nun-tsaddi-reish-vav-tav) while the word found in the manuscript is נצורה (nun-tsaddi-vav-reish-heh). As found in Isaiah 1:8, the word is a hapax legomenon: it's the only time it's found like that in the entire Tanakh.

This meaning would seem to be a doctrinal interpretation rather than a linguistic one.

As well as the wound, another connection between Isaiah 1 and the gospels is animal sacrifice.

To what purpose [is] the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith YHWH: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
Isaiah 1:11

For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
Hosea 6:6

But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Matthew 9:13

The thread on Exodus 34:7 was attempting to deal with the fact that in that seminal verse, the "mercy" of God is being related to a "Branch" (and the Hebrew word for "branch" is capitalized in the verse, which is remarkable), while this "mercy" of God is juxtaposed in the verse, against the "judgment" of God. Ha-Shem is "mercy," while God's "judgment," (particularly when it's transposed over God's mercy) posses a theological problem that Moses is attempting to solve in Exodus 34:7 (and elsewhere).



John
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
ונותרה בת–ציון כסכה בכרם כמלונה במקשה בעיר נצורה​
And the daughter of Zion is left as a sukkah in a vineyard, a guard house in a cucumber patch: the city of Nazareth.​
Isaiah 1:8.​

Contextual exegesis of the verse (some of it still forthcoming) implies that the Hebrew word בת translated "daughter," should instead be translated "branch." Though the consonants בת usually refer to a "daughter," nevertheless the lexicons all note that it is in fact read, in the plural (נוות), in Genesis 49:22, as "branches." In Isaiah 1:8, context dictates that the consonants be translated "branch," thus speaking of the "branch of Zion."

And the Branch of Zion is left as a sukkah in a vineyard . . ..​
Not only is a "sukkah" constructed of twisted branches (בנות), and not only does it represent a reprise from the storm, a sanctuary or refuge, but the righteous are found inside. The statement found in the Gospel of Thomas, 77, was recently debated in the Scriptural Debates forum:

1698081500488.png


(77) Jesus said: I am the light that is above them all. I am the all; the all came forth from me, and the all attained to me. Cleave a (piece of) wood; I am there. Raise up a stone, and you will find me there.​

Split a Branch, cleave a Branch, and inside the Branch (inside the archetypal sukkah) you'll find what the exegesis of Isaiah 1:8 is looking for. What follows the fact that Isaiah 1:8 is speaking of the Branch of Zion as a macrocosmic, or archetypal sukkah (a shelter from the storm constructed of a broken branch or branches), has thrown even the best exegetes a good beatin.

And the Branch of Zion is left as a sukkah in a vineyard . . . a guardhouse, or scarecrow, in a patch of cucumbers.​

Even the best exegetes, and I have Keil and Delitzsch currently in mind, are dumbfounded about how a "scarecrow in a patch of cucumbers" relates to the "Branch of Zion"? In their commentary, they reference Isaiah 1:8 concerning their exegesis of Jeremiah 10:4. And the word that leads them to Isaiah 1:8 is precisely the word translated as a "patch of cucumbers" in Isaiah 1:8: מקשה. -----In Jeremiah 10:4 the word is linked with תמר such that they reference the apocraphal Letter of Jeremy in order to try to better understand what's being said in Jeremiah 10:4 and perhaps Isaiah 1:8?

(Note: Ew., Hitz., Graf, Näg. follow in the track of Movers, Phöniz. i. S. 622, who takes מקשׁה se acc. to Isaiah 1:8 for a cucumber garden, and, acc. to Epist. Jerem. v. 70, understands by תּמר מקשׁה the figure of Priapus in a cucumber field, serving as a scare-crow. But even if we admit that there is an allusion to the verse before us in the mockery of the gods in the passage of Epist. Jerem. quoted, running literally as follows: ω ̔͂σπερ γὰρ ἐν οἰκυηράτῳ προβασκάνιον οὐδὲν φυλάσσον, οὕτως οἱ θεοὶ αὐτῶν εἰσὶ ξύλινοι καὶ περίχρυσοι καὶ περιάργυροι ; and if we further admit that the author was led to make his comparison by his understanding מקשׁה in Isaiah1:8 of a cucumber garden; - yet his comparison has so little in common with our verse in point of form, that it cannot at all be regarded as a translation of it, or serve as a rule for the interpretation of the phrase in question. And besides it has yet to be proved that the Israelites were in the habit of setting up images of Priapus as scare-crows.)​

It's amazing that the spirit of exegesis, if not the Holy Spirit, sees to it that the passage above is included in Keil and Delitzsch's exegesis and commentary even though they, Keil and Delitzsch, admit they can make nothing of it. Why then did they add the note above when they concede they can make nothing of it? The Holy Spirit often works that way in his undergirding of the spirit of prophesy. The note above, provided by Keil and Delitzsch over a hundred years ago, lends itself to a generation of exegetes who have the modern tools to cross-reference these things at the speed of light; or at least the speed of a good Mac computer, uncovering elements of the sacred word otherwise lost to the ravages of time.



John
 
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Bthoth

Well-Known Member
Those familiar with the Oracle at Delphi ---and the stories related to it ----are aware that as history records it, the authentic oracles of the ancient world possessed preternatural powers that truly boggle the mind. Often times the oracle would give names that were impossible for the oracle to know, which were off by one or two letters (or phonemes as it were), but which undeniably contained the spirit of the name in question. They gave the names of places related to their patron's query, which they couldn't possibly know, and at times remarked on future events that took place very much within the scope of their prophetic utterance. . .​

That is why observing the label of Israel does not make sense as benefiting mankind. But upon mankind reaching the unveiling then the whole universe can be known and understood as what is real. The homeland !
With that said, we have perhaps an even more amazing and a far greater oracle in the cross-hairs of our examination ---the Oracle of Jerusalem -----the prophet Isaiah.​

In the essay on Isaiah 66:17-21, quoted above, we see that just as he did in the case of Cyrus the Great, so too with Paul of Tarsus, the great Jewish oracle Isaiah is wont to produce names and places, long before they occur, and in a manner that parallels the Oracle at Delphi. When Cyrus the Great was shown that Isaiah spoke of him hundreds of years before his birth, he was so moved that he liberated the Jews from their captivity. We don't know if Paul was aware Isaiah prophesied concerning his collection of monies from his Gentile churches to bring to Jerusalem? But we see Paul's name and birth-place in Isaiah, even as we see the name of Cyrus presaged in the same prophet. With this great cloud of witnesses, it behooves us to show that Isaiah reveals the name of the city found out in the gospels as the residence of an important would-be Jewish messiah.
The bringer of light that does unveil what is real....... the truth.

I consider that capstone as 'the name' of g-d, the unwritten, the unsaid the 'holy of holies' which enables the combining of knowledge.
 

John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
That is why observing the label of Israel does not make sense as benefiting mankind. But upon mankind reaching the unveiling then the whole universe can be known and understood as what is real. The homeland !

Excellent point. Problem being the relationship between the allegorical/metaphorical, versus the "real." Israel, Judaism, Jews, don't think of themselves as mere "signs" signifying something universally real outside of Israel, Judaism, and the Jews. And imo, they're correct. But that poses a huge epistemological and hermeneutical problem when we try to understand the reality of the "sign" as it exists beyond its act of signification?

Case in point. Ritual circumcision. Brit milah. If we say that by cutting and bleeding the male organ, a sign is produced that signifies a virgin birth, and or, a new species of mankind who are born-again by means of the blood of the phallus rather than the seed of the biological serpent, we can see brit milah (ritual circumcision) as a sign signifying the virgin birth of Christ, and the non-phallic means through which he's procreating his Church into the world.

But what of all those faithful and wonderful Jews who've been circumcising their sons in obedience to God for thousands of years without God telling them that it's not the thing-in-itself, but is only a sign of a covenant he hasn't shared --yet---with them? That's a huge problem.

There's a problem telling faithful servants of God that they're not the target of circumcision, but merely the delivery mechanism, the sign, for a reality outside of the sign (outside them). -----Imo, the sign and what it signifies has to somehow be collapsed in a manner that doesn't treat the sign as secondary to what it signifies. That's what the thread on Susan A. Handelman was trying to negotiate.




John
 

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
(77) Jesus said: I am the light that is above them all. I am the all; the all came forth from me, and the all attained to me. Cleave a (piece of) wood; I am there. Raise up a stone, and you will find me there.
Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they [are] men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.
For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone [shall be] seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith YHWH of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
Zechariah 3:8-9

Raising the stone becomes meaningful when you consider the seven eyes as aspects of the slain lamb. This doesn't work for Christian doctrine though, because the priest (of Melchizidek) and the slain lamb are different things.

And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Revelation 5:6
 
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John D. Brey

Well-Known Member
The bringer of light that does unveil what is real....... the truth.

Quid est veritas? Truth isn't an inductive phenomenon. Which means the moment you collect it, and hold it for more than a day (except on the eve of Sabbath) it rots and turns into maggots or serpents.

I consider that capstone as 'the name' of g-d, the unwritten, the unsaid the 'holy of holies' which enables the combining of knowledge.

We could paraphrase the Gospel of Thomas 77 (quoted earlier in the thread) to say cleave Ha-Shem (the Name) and the I Am is there.



John
 
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