Isaiah 1:8.

[John D. Brey]

Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they [are] men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.
For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone [shall be] seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith YHWH of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
Zechariah 3:8-9

Raising the stone becomes meaningful when you consider the seven eyes as aspects of the slain lamb. This doesn't work for Christian doctrine though, because the priest (of Melchizidek) and the slain lamb are different things.

And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Revelation 5:6

. . . Similarly, one might read the Gospel of Thomas 77 to be saying that when the Roman cleaved the Branch on the branch, the I Am was there. But since He unleashed his power at an unknown hour that no one knew (Dylan), the I Am was lain in a grave/sepulcher, such that if you move the stone, you'll find the I Am there too.



John

 

[Bthoth]

Truth isn't an inductive phenomenon.

No one is born with understanding. Instinct can enable many processes but understanding is learned and solid knowledge has been evolving over time. For example: circumcision was learned, then the commandments are learned, even the idea of a messiah is learned.

Which means the moment you collect it, and hold it for more than a day (except on the eve of Sabbath) it rots and turns into maggots or serpents.

That is way over my head... As if a day can cause a mind to forget?? No idea what that means.

We could paraphrase the Gospel of Thomas 77 (quoted earlier in the thread) to say cleave Ha-Shem (the Name) and the I Am is there.



John

The gnostic angle has been used on many fronts and I have enjoyed many. For example: the DNA is not the life of mankind, it's light that is the spirit (living process).

i tried to explain to you earlier to adjust to that perspective as it will enable bridging concepts found in many disciplines

 

[Ebionite]

. . . Similarly, one might read the Gospel of Thomas 77 to be saying that when the Roman cleaved the Branch on the branch, the I Am was there. But since He unleashed his power at an unknown hour that no one knew (Dylan), the I Am was lain in a grave/sepulcher, such that if you move the stone, you'll find the I Am there too.



John

That interpretation isn't consistent with the thread of the repudiation of blood sacrifice which goes from Isaiah to Hosea to the gospels. Also, the stone of the grave wasn't raised (gospel of Thomas) or lifted up (gospel of John), it was rolled away.

The stone:

For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone [shall be] seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith YHWH of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity[עון] of that land in one day.
Zechariah 3:9

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and YHWH hath laid on him the iniquity[עון] of us all.
Isaiah 53:6

And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity[עון] to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.
Zechariah 3:4

Lifted up (not rolled away):

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
John 3:14

In the context of the gospels, the serpents were the scribes and Pharisees

And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
[Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Matthew 23:30-33

Son of man associates with repentance:

El [is] not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do [it]? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
Numbers 23:19

Repentance connects to the priests/Pharisees via Judas:

Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What [is that] to us? see thou [to that].
Matthew 27:3-4

.. and Judas connects to the crucified man via Peter:

Men [and] brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
Acts 1:16

For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
Acts 1:20

Let their habitation be desolate; [and] let none dwell in their tents.
Psalms 69:25

They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.
Psalms 69:21

 

[John D. Brey]

No one is born with understanding. Instinct can enable many processes but understanding is learned and solid knowledge has been evolving over time. For example: circumcision was learned, then the commandments are learned, even the idea of a messiah is learned.

There's a mythological idea that's come down through philosophy as the "Sea of Lethe": i.e., that we're all thrown into the sea of forgetfulness such that though we're conceived all-knowing, we forget it all at birth and must relearn it. Plato showed something of this in a number of his Socratic parables. In one, Socrates shows an amazed simpleton, that he, the simpleton, knows algebra without even knowing he knows it.

Einstein said the distinction between the past, when we knew little, and the future, where we know more, is an illusion. The truly enlightened are in the process of coming to learn what they know, more than believing they're acquiring knowledge through inductive processes.

In the earliest stages of development, the fertilized ovum is not only immortal (the death-gene hasn't developed yet) but the cells are nearly omnipotent: they can become any cell in the human body; they don't yet follow any law about what they have to be. It's only when the law forces itself on them and tells them what they are (have to be), that they lose the omnipotence they originally enjoyed.

The human mind, in that early batch of stem-cells, is not only immortal, but omniscient. It forgets the All it knows precisely when the same law that makes the biological cell obey, begins to affect the mind too. Both the omniscience of the mind, and the immortality of the body, can be regained. That's the Gospel message flowing off the tongue, and out of the rib-cage, of the man from Nazareth.

That is way over my head... As if a day can cause a mind to forget?? No idea what that means.

I was comparing "truth" to manna. It doesn't always taste good so that lots of people are wont to eat something else. Also, if it's not digested immediately, it loses its ability to nourish and becomes something no one would want to swallow.





John

 

[Bthoth]

There's a mythological idea that's come down through philosophy as the "Sea of Lethe": i.e., that we're all thrown into the sea of forgetfulness such that though we're conceived all-knowing, we forget it all at birth and must relearn it. Plato showed something of this in a number of his Socratic parables. In one, Socrates shows an amazed simpleton, that he, the simpleton, knows algebra without even knowing he knows it.

Einstein said the distinction between the past, when we knew little, and the future, where we know more, is an illusion. The truly enlightened are in the process of coming to learn what they know, more than believing they're acquiring knowledge through inductive processes.

In the earliest stages of development, the fertilized ovum is not only immortal (the death-gene hasn't developed yet) but the cells are nearly omnipotent: they can become any cell in the human body; they don't yet follow any law about what they have to be. It's only when the law forces itself on them and tells them what they are (have to be), that they lose the omnipotence they originally enjoyed.

John, stem cells are about like oxygen, capable of change and why they are so important.
Mind is described in many ways but see and alzheimers patient physiologically, the cells are creating plague, tubular scaffolding that hardens the cell and plasticity.
Do you have any idea how those cells even retain a memory?

Did you learn that the body is an electrical system?

That's the Gospel message flowing off the tongue, and out of the rib-cage, of the man from Nazareth.

Did you hear it? It is not written that way and without direct exchange or even reading about it, your claims are closer to assumption and make believe. Who taught you, that body is immortal or was immortal?

I was comparing "truth" to manna.

Truth is reproducible and comprehensible. Manna is the same, if edible and usable it is reproducible.

It doesn't always taste good so that lots of people are wont to eat something else.

Sure, i want to learn what is true, not about fignewtons of the imagination.

Also, if it's not digested immediately, it loses its ability to nourish and becomes something no one would want to swallow.

I think that story was explained as locus fell from the sky to be comprehensible/useable information.

If you want a manna that could actually be usable, then identify which wavelength of light that human beings can use directly to enable usable energy. For example: photosynthesis of green plants use 680nm to create the p680 molecule which is the foundations of all energy transforming to usable form by plants, directly from aten, the sun.

If you wrote that the guy from nazereth said that, I could see relevance even if i could not taste the information. Would you ask him which wave length is emitted upon meiotic division?

 

[John D. Brey]

John, stem cells are about like oxygen, capable of change and why they are so important.
Mind is described in many ways but see and alzheimers patient physiologically, the cells are creating plague, tubular scaffolding that hardens the cell and plasticity.
Do you have any idea how those cells even retain a memory?

The first statements are difficult to parse.

I don't think those cells retain memory. I think they access memories stored safely outside the body. That way if the body is blown up by a bomb lobbed from some hummus-eating Palestinian the memories are safe and sound awaiting uploading to the new body. Godforbid we should need to learn who we are all over again when we get our new bodies. Alzheimers weakens the cells ability to access the hard-drive. Alzheimers doesn't cause the gears in the hard-drive where memories are stored to rust.

It is not written that way and without direct exchange or even reading about it, your claims are closer to assumption and make believe. Who taught you, that body is immortal or was immortal?

Pando is a living organism that's fancied to be upwards of 80,000 years old. A Branch sprung up in Nazareth from a root older than Pando. I'm grafted onto that root. So if you plan to count how long I live I hope you have a good mechanical counter with a lot of digits and a finger with a lot of endurance. I guarantee you're gonna need some WD-40 somewhere along the line.

Truth is reproducible and comprehensible.

I think you might be confusing a "fact" with truth. They're not even from the same genus.

If you wrote that the guy from nazereth said that, I could see relevance even if i could not taste the information.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood ye have no life in you.

John

 

[Bthoth]

The first statements are difficult to parse.

I don't think those cells retain memory. I think they access memories stored safely outside the body.

The ethernet?

That way if the body is blown up by a bomb lobbed from some hummus-eating Palestinian the memories are safe and sound awaiting uploading to the new body.

If recorded in writing, physical data storage. That is the beauty of writing (words, math, symbols) recording information/data.

Godforbid we should need to learn who we are all over again when we get our new bodies.

That is exactly what the generations are doing. Learn, write, and convey to the next.. that is the mechanism for the evolution of knowledge.

Alzheimers weakens the cells ability to access the hard-drive. Alzheimers doesn't cause the gears in the hard-drive where memories are stored to rust.

I know, books have been the hard drive of information for 1000's of years.

Pando is a living organism that's fancied to be upwards of 80,000 years old.

Can any of those original forms drive a car?

I think you might be confusing a "fact" with truth. They're not even from the same genus.

Even you learned differences by words and writing

I am often corrected about knowledge and understanding... use of the terms.

Just as I often correct people on the differences of life and consciousness.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood ye have no life in you.

That set of words has been left open to so much ambiguity.

But its easy to see that all of us eat of nature, drink of nature and live within nature... the body of 'the christos'. (the name of god)