Islam’s teaching on response to abuse and mockery

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I dont represent sunni, salafi, shia or sufi.

I call myself muslim.





I doubt a muslim would insult christian historical figures. In islam its not allowed to insult holy ones of religions. This is why u dont see me badmouthing hindu dieties etc.

You've mocked Pagan deities in the past.

 

[Aquitaine]

I doubt a muslim would insult christian historical figures. In islam its not allowed to insult holy ones of religions. This is why u dont see me badmouthing hindu dieties etc.

You're not answering the question.

 

[Pastek]

This

"According to the religion of Islam, Muslims can only respond to verbal abuse, mockery and lampooning of their faith and its sacred figures in the following forms.
1. Any criticism of Islam, or allegations against it, which underlie the abuse must be refuted and answered by means of words and speech.
2. Apart from answering specific criticism, all possible efforts must be made to present the true and accurate picture of Islam in general. With more enlightenment and less ignorance prevailing about Islam and its Holy Prophet Muhammad, the instances of abuse, vituperation and mockery will decrease.
3. As regards the offence or hurt that Muslims naturally feel as a result of such abuse, they are taught to respond by:
a) bearing the provocation with resolute patience,
b) ignoring the abuse,
c) separating themselves temporarily from the company of the abusers while the abuse continues,
d) exercising forgiveness in view of the ignorance of the abusers."

That's what the Quran says :

6.68 And when you see those who engage in [offensive] discourse concerning Our verses, then turn away from them until they enter into another conversion. And if Satan should cause you to forget, then do not remain after the reminder with the wrongdoing people.


25.63 And the servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk upon the earth easily, and when the ignorant address them [harshly], they say [words of] peace


28.55 And when they (muslims) hear ill speech, they turn away from it and say, "For us are our deeds, and for you are your deeds. Peace will be upon you; we seek not the ignorant."


43.83 So leave them to converse vainly and amuse themselves until they meet their Day which they are promised.

And there's other verses like that.

or this?

"Undoubtedly, the States politicians who turn a blind eye to those who mock the prophets are not censure in isolation because Allah s.w.t authorizes the destruction of the cities and villages where they mock the prophet peace be upon him. We can see the darkest injustice is abusing and mocking the Prophet peace be upon him, it violates the divine and it runs counter of rules and systems." - http://en.islamway.net/article/8328...phet-peace-and-blessings-of-allah-be-upon-him

"The Qur'an says that Allah curses the one who harms the Prophet in this world and He connected harm of Himself to harm of the Prophet. There is no dispute that anyone who curses Allah is killed and that his curse demands that he be categorised as an unbeliever. The judgement of the unbeliever is that he is killed." - http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/alshifa/pt4ch1sec2.htm

The Quran didn't say that those people will be killed or should be killed :

33.57 Indeed, those who abuse Allah and His Messenger - Allah has cursed them in this world and the Hereafter and prepared for them a humiliating punishment.

Many people used to mock the prophept and Islam and fought him and after they converted to Islam.

It's not permitted in a muslim country to insult Islam, the prophets, the companions, apostles etc..., in a non muslim country we must follow the law of the country.
So we can say that we disagree with mockery and eventually engage a dialogue or we can go elsewhere but not use of violence.
It's not ok to promote this (the right to insult/mock) but insulting other religions/deities is not allowed too.

6.108 And do not insult those they invoke other than Allah , lest they insult Allah in enmity without knowledge. Thus We have made pleasing to every community their deeds. Then to their Lord is their return, and He will inform them about what they used to do.

 

[icehorse]

The cartoon "Jesus and Mo" (online), is fantastic for humor. And the great thing is that both Jesus and Muhammad get kidded equally - so there can be no finger pointing between Christians and Muslims.

 

[Nakosis]

The Quran didn't say that those people will be killed or should be killed :

Many people used to mock the prophept and Islam and fought him and after they converted to Islam.

It's not permitted in a muslim country to insult Islam, the prophets, the companions, apostles etc..., in a non muslim country we must follow the law of the country.
So we can say that we disagree with mockery and eventually engage a dialogue or we can go elsewhere but not use of violence.
It's not ok to promote this (the right to insult/mock) but insulting other religions/deities is not allowed too.

I pretty much agree, from what I found in the Quran. However it seems it the Hadiths which advocate this along with Sahria law. I don't know what you think about that or them. I feel I'm just touching the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the complexities of Islam.

I know there are various versions of Christianity, Maybe there are as many interpretations of Islam as well.

What I do feel is that just because a person calls themselves a Muslim, it doesn't really mean you know anything about them. Religion does very little to define a person.

 

[leibowde84]

Anyone who insults islam or prophet Muhammad pbuh within muslim country deserves execution or exile by the state. But i think execution is closer to the truth. Exile is not bad choice either.

Why are you so against open discussion? What is your reasoning for holding this position?

 

[leibowde84]

Well obviously iam not talking about someone who says: Hey u know what? I dont like islam at all.
Or someone who says : hey, i dont believe in islam. I rather be atheist, christian.

Iam talking about someone who constantly abuses islam and prophet pbuh, and his/her only intention is to provoke muslims.

Can you give an actual example of what this would be?

 

[leibowde84]

I dont represent sunni, salafi, shia or sufi.

I call myself muslim.





I doubt a muslim would insult christian historical figures. In islam its not allowed to insult holy ones of religions. This is why u dont see me badmouthing hindu dieties etc.

News flash ... Muslims insult other religions and their deities all the time. You must realize that people break rules all the time, so that is not a valid explanation for why you think that Muslims never participate in this kind of stuff.

 

[Pastek]

I pretty much agree, from what I found in the Quran. However it seems it the Hadiths which advocate this along with Sahria law. I don't know what you think about that or them. I feel I'm just touching the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the complexities of Islam.

First the Quran, then the hadiths (if they are correct and not contradicting the Quran).

I'm not aware of what say the hadiths, but in a muslim country it would be better to not mock at the religion.
This is shoking for people.

I know there are various versions of Christianity, Maybe there are as many interpretations of Islam as well.

Different views and interpretations for sure. I often use the verses when possible, because people may understand it differently and they can also make their own opinion.
I'm not saying i'm always right, i just give my opinion after i've read the Quran, listen to some Imams and made my own research.
An Imam that i met some times ago said that he is always learning and will continue. He said to me that before the sheiks used to even listen to their students.

What I do feel is that just because a person calls themselves a Muslim, it doesn't really mean you know anything about them. Religion does very little to define a person.

True. Some may only know the religion by the familly or friends. Other may only have their own interpretation whitout listening to the older scholars, other only listen blindly to a Sheikh and don't think by themselves etc ... In the same sect you may have different points of view or have the same as another sect.

 

[paarsurrey]

Then again we have Imam Barack Obama's message to the UN in 2012:

The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam. But to be credible, those who condemn that slander must also condemn the hate we see in the images of Jesus Christ that are desecrated, or churches that are destroyed, or the Holocaust that is denied.
Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/obamafuture.asp#tylEWAsJQ1ZkhhbT.99
Looks like Muslims aren't the only ones who want to stop mockery of historical figures.

Mockery is not a good characteristic for the human beings, they should learn to give good arguments instead. Mockery creates hatred.
Isn't it correct?
Regards

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

So, you are good insulting a huge amount of people for one of their most cherished beliefs... about their prophet...

In Muslim majority counties, it would be extremely bad judgment to slander or mock Muhammad. Neither would likely go over too well with the locals.

Who cares who is insulted about anything, honestly? Insult never killed anyone - therefore the punishment of death for mere insult will never be warranted. Is the lesser of the two evils of "insulting" and "killing" very hard to establish? Perhaps for a sociopath.

 

[YmirGF]

Mockery is not a good characteristic for the human beings, they should learn to give good arguments instead. Mockery creates hatred.
Isn't it correct?
Regards

I firmly believe that mocking is one of our best qualities. It helps us to put things into an often humorous perspective even if that mocking isn't particularly funny to the one being mocked. Perhaps human animals have to learn to not take themselves so deadly seriously.

 

[YmirGF]

Who cares who is insulted about anything, honestly? Insult never killed anyone - therefore the punishment of death for mere insult will never be warranted. Is the lesser of the two evils of "insulting" and "killing" very hard to establish? Perhaps for a sociopath.

Thank you, Albert Einstein.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I firmly believe that mocking is one of our best qualities. It helps us to put things into an often humorous perspective even if that mocking isn't particularly funny to the one being mocked. Perhaps human animals have to learn to not take themselves so deadly seriously.

It depends. Friends will occasionally mock each other in a light-hearted way and it does just what you mention. However, it can also spread ignorance, hatred, misinformation, and in most cases is bullying.

 

[YmirGF]

It depends. Friends will occasionally mock each other in a light-hearted way and it does just what you mention. However, it can also spread ignorance, hatred, misinformation, and in most cases is bullying.

If you say so.....

 

[YmirGF]

It depends. Friends will occasionally mock each other in a light-hearted way and it does just what you mention. However, it can also spread ignorance, hatred, misinformation, and in most cases is bullying.

I am leaning towards thinking that "bullying" is be used far too much nowadays and that people have to simply learn to communicate better. Mockery is a wonderful way to knock people off their self-created pedestals and bringing them down to size. That said, very few people consciously seek to spread ignorance, hatred and misinformation.

What about religious folks who spread ignorance, hatred, misinformation through their dogmatic beliefs and customs? Why is it not fair game to openly mock their thinking?

 

[NulliuSINverba]

This?

"Show patience under provocation, disregard abuse and politely turn away from abusers. Violence not allowed." - http://ahmadiyya.org/islam/abuse.pdf

or this?

"There is no dispute that anyone who curses Allah is killed " - http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/alshifa/pt4ch1sec2.htm

1.) It almost sounds like you're surprised to find inconsistencies in a religion.

2.) Doesn't your first example automatically disprove the second?

 

[Nakosis]

1.) It almost sounds like you're surprised to find inconsistencies in a religion.

2.) Doesn't your first example automatically disprove the second?

I was a little surprised to find Islam as varied as Christianity. Regardless of whatever the original intent of the religion's "founder", people are going to adopt a religion to their needs. It's like evolution, how religion evolves is very complex. If people disagree enough with some of the fundamental ideas, they'll branch out and start their own version.

Yet still somehow assume their version is God given. Versions that don't agree with their own must be the result of "false prophets".

The important thing to note I think is that you can't judge a person by their religion.

 

[Looncall]

I was a little surprised to find Islam as varied as Christianity. Regardless of whatever the original intent of the religion's "founder", people are going to adopt a religion to their needs. It's like evolution, how religion evolves is very complex. If people disagree enough with some of the fundamental ideas, they'll branch out and start their own version.

Yet still somehow assume their version is God given. Versions that don't agree with their own must be the result of "false prophets".

The important thing to note I think is that you can't judge a person by their religion.

Sure you can judge someone by their religion, at least provisionally, and certainly if that is all you have to go on. Otherwise, one would have to think that religions have no tenets.

The hard part may be finding out what particular flavour one is dealing with.

 

[leibowde84]

So, you are good insulting a huge amount of people for one of their most cherished beliefs... about their prophet...

In Muslim majority counties, it would be extremely bad judgment to slander or mock Muhammad. Neither would likely go over too well with the locals.

In short, I have no problem ridiculing a destructive and unreasonable belief such as this. I am not ridiculing anyone, though, just a belief, so if people want to be offended by this ridicule, that is on them. In a free society, we must be free to ridicule ideas without fear of violent retribution.