Islam & Alcohol

[Gharib]

Alcohol has plenty of health benefits. Wine is demonstrably good for the heart and brain. Whiskey used to be used for pain relief, controlling a fever, and other medicinal purposes.

As I mentioned, there is some benefit from alcohol, but the harm that it causes surpasses it's benefits.

And it's not about drinking in moderation therefore it's OK for me. You have to look a little further. Alcohol becomes ones best friend if they are going through a hardship, no matter how moderate their intake was all their life.

So since great amounts lead to intoxication it is unlawful. And there is no good whatsoever in being intoxicated and not knowing what you are doing, you loose both honor and respect, all people may make fun of you, which is always the case with drunk people ie, have fun.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Well like I said to each their own eselam

Far be it from me to argue with a Muslim about their own Faith. I respectfully desist from pressing the matter any farther.

Salaam my friend

 

[Bob Dixon]

Alcohol becomes ones best friend if they are going through a hardship, no matter how moderate their intake was all their life.

But this can happen to anyone, even to people who weren't drinking before at all.

 

[apophenia]

As I mentioned, there is some benefit from alcohol, but the harm that it causes surpasses it's benefits.

And it's not about drinking in moderation therefore it's OK for me. You have to look a little further. Alcohol becomes ones best friend if they are going through a hardship, no matter how moderate their intake was all their life.

So since great amounts lead to intoxication it is unlawful. And there is no good whatsoever in being intoxicated and not knowing what you are doing, you loose both honor and respect, all people may make fun of you, which is always the case with drunk people ie, have fun.

I drink some wine every night. I have done so for many years.

I have been through some severe hardship, but it has not driven me to alcoholism. I don't particularly like being drunk. Apart from not enjoying being drunk, the hangover in the morning is the worst sensation. A couple of glasses of wine is simply pleasant relaxation, leads to no dishonor and encourages amiable communication.

It is not true that people who drink lose all honor and respect. Some do, but they are idiots who probably don't deserve honor and respect even when they don't drink.

Here in Australia people drink quite a lot. Nevertheless it is one of the most civilised, egalitarian and peaceful places on earth. Much more so than many, if not most, places where alcohol is banned. So what does that tell you ?

 

[Cordoba]

Ok, as I understand it, a Muslim may not partake of fermented grape or grain. But there are some alcohols not from either of those.

Mead - Honey
Vodka - Potatoes
Tequila - Agave

How are those viewed? Does a Muslim who takes advantage of this loophole living in sin? Is it really so wrong to use alcohol in moderation?

Any type of drink, smoke or drugs that can lead to intoxication are not allowed in Islam

The objective of this ruling is to protect the human intellect, which is a precious gift we have from our Creator

God's Guidance in this area is for our own benefit, as even drinking in moderation can easily turn into addiction

Islam is about us being free, free from all addictions and all what harms our mind, body and society

 

[arthra]

Of course the thread is on the topic of alcohol and Islam but many Christians also abstain from alcohol.... Baha'is abstain from alcohol as well.

The problem also is for many who have become addicted to alcohol having to live in a general society that permits it...

Alcohol Abuse and World Statistics

Over a million people die from alcohol related causes a year:

Alcohol Statistics - Worldometers

Average alcohol consumption is increasing:

World/Global Alcohol/Drink Consumption, 2010, Ireland and European Drink Price Comparisons : Finfacts Ireland

There are some studies that indicated Prohibition was working:

http://www.republicreport.org/2012/dea-prohibition-worked/

Other problems include selling alcohol near places that also sell petroleum products for automobiles..there are power lobbies of the alcohol industry that persuade legislators to pass legislation favorable to alcohol industry.

Compare the effects of alcohol to other drugs:

http://www.gizmag.com/the-most-harmful-drugs-in-common-usage/16811/

 

[Gharib]

I drink some wine every night. I have done so for many years.

I have been through some severe hardship, but it has not driven me to alcoholism. I don't particularly like being drunk. Apart from not enjoying being drunk, the hangover in the morning is the worst sensation. A couple of glasses of wine is simply pleasant relaxation, leads to no dishonor and encourages amiable communication.

It is not true that people who drink lose all honor and respect. Some do, but they are idiots who probably don't deserve honor and respect even when they don't drink.

Here in Australia people drink quite a lot. Nevertheless it is one of the most civilised, egalitarian and peaceful places on earth. Much more so than many, if not most, places where alcohol is banned. So what does that tell you ?

OK so you are one in a million. There isn't one person who I can think of that is like you. I used to work in the mines of northern WA. There were over 3,000 people in our camp. The only people who wouldn't drink and get drunk were some Muslims, Mormons, and a few Christians, all up not more than 20 people. There was not one person in our company who drank alcohol that didn't degrade their own self to that of an animal. And then they would get into trouble in the morning when they had to do a bretho, let alone loosing their jobs to alcohol.

I'm sure you watch the news and know that the worst binge drinkers are Australian teens-young adults.
That's not to say that Australia is an evil place to live because of them, and those people never drink in moderation it's always about getting drunk.

So it would be fair to prohibit alcohol not just for certain people, but for all. You can't go pick who gets to drink and who doesn't. That is not equality, if there is harm from something for one person, there is harm from that same thing for all people.

 

[Gharib]

But this can happen to anyone, even to people who weren't drinking before at all.

But what kind of people are we talking about? Are you speaking of Muslims? Our Prophet never drank alcohol nor did his companion Abu Bakr.

People who follow the path of God do not turn to alcohol in times of hardship unless they deviate from the path of God.

I have never heard of a religious man turn to alcohol during hardship. I even used to work with a Christian who didn't drink alcohol. And when I asked him why, he said that it makes people go nuts and do things that they wouldn't do. He had seen his own friends become victims of one sort due to alcohol.

 

[Gharib]

Well like I said to each their own eselam

Far be it from me to argue with a Muslim about their own Faith. I respectfully desist from pressing the matter any farther.

Salaam my friend

Yes to each their own, but you were speaking about Islam just before. I don't mean to force my views on you, I just wanted to correct your view of the Islamic perspective of alcohol.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Hey I'm a moderate drinker myself, but I'll give you props eselam where due. I've wondered myself if prohibition wouldn't be best for society in the long run. You're right that many don't have that control. If it came to it for the good of society its a sacrifice I'd be willing to make

 

[apophenia]

OK so you are one in a million. There isn't one person who I can think of that is like you.

I know lots of people like me.

Miners in the northwest ! Yeah, I would expect a lot of drunkenness there.

But Australia is not only one of the most peaceful and civilised places on earth, it also has an economy which is doing better than most countries in the world.

So , since the majority drink, and all is well, where is the reason to ban it when, as I said earlier, we have a more peaceful and prosperous society than most countries which ban it ?

How can you argue with the overall result when it is so clear ?

 

[Gharib]

I know lots of people like me.

Miners in the northwest ! Yeah, I would expect a lot of drunkenness there.

But Australia is not only one of the most peaceful and civilised places on earth, it also has an economy which is doing better than most countries in the world.

So , since the majority drink, and all is well, where is the reason to ban it when, as I said earlier, we have a more peaceful and prosperous society than most countries which ban it ?

How can you argue with the overall result when it is so clear ?

None of that has anything to do with how the country is running.

I you want to argue that then may I remind you that Islam ruled over the world for over a thousand years, if we attribute that to the banning of alcohol and compare it to Australia, reality suddenly appears to favour the banning of alcohol doesn't it?

Lets be realistic, does alcohol cause problems? Yes it does.
Does it have any benefit? Yes it does.

Which one out weighs which?

 

[apophenia]

None of that has anything to do with how the country is running.

I you want to argue that then may I remind you that Islam ruled over the world for over a thousand years, if we attribute that to the banning of alcohol and compare it to Australia, reality suddenly appears to favour the banning of alcohol doesn't it?

Lets be realistic, does alcohol cause problems? Yes it does.
Does it have any benefit? Yes it does.

Which one out weighs which?

Islam did not rule the world for 1000 years. Islam has never ruled the world. In fact, no religion or political system has ever ruled the world. A chunk of Europe and the middle east, yeah. But are you saying China is not on this planet ? Or Africa ? South America ? North America ? The area now called Russia ? Most of Europe ?

But Tibet was almost that size once also, extending into China and Mongolia and Russia. Tibetans drink. 40% of the oat and barley grown in Tibet was used to make chang (beer) for the monks. They were very disciplined and lived with a moral code at least as strict as Islam.

And I sincerely doubt that the whole area of the Ottoman Empire was alcohol free.
Also, the phrase I bolded ( "if we attribute that to the banning of alcohol") is very dubious. Very, very dubious.

Provide some historical evidence that the spread of Islam was because alcohol was banned. Actually, don't even bother trying, the proposition is just silly.

That was not a very good answer to my very reasonable and provable point eselam.

But while we are on the subject of the Islamic Empire, what happened to it ? How is it that countries afflicted with the horror of alcohol are doing so much better ?

You attempted a false argument, as I just demonstrated. Now, without trying to falsify history, explain to me why Australia is such a happier and more prosperous place than most Islamic countries despite our enthusiastic consumption of alcohol ?

Why is it that so many muslims want to come and live here ? Because it is a happier, freer and more prosperous place than the muslim country they came from, right ?

You cannot deny that, so your argument fails.

 

[Caladan]

OK so you are one in a million. There isn't one person who I can think of that is like you. I used to work in the mines of northern WA. There were over 3,000 people in our camp. The only people who wouldn't drink and get drunk were some Muslims, Mormons, and a few Christians, all up not more than 20 people. There was not one person in our company who drank alcohol that didn't degrade their own self to that of an animal. And then they would get into trouble in the morning when they had to do a bretho, let alone loosing their jobs to alcohol.

I'm sure you watch the news and know that the worst binge drinkers are Australian teens-young adults.
That's not to say that Australia is an evil place to live because of them, and those people never drink in moderation it's always about getting drunk.

So it would be fair to prohibit alcohol not just for certain people, but for all. You can't go pick who gets to drink and who doesn't. That is not equality, if there is harm from something for one person, there is harm from that same thing for all people.

Wouldn't that point that perhaps we should enforce ban laws against selling alcohol to teen agers, and banning alcohol in the working place, rather than doing away with the entire culture of drinking?

Many people enjoy drinking in moderation. I enjoy a good glass of wine, scotch or beer. I don't turn violent when I drink, and I don't walk the streets looking for trouble. Those people who cannot handle alcohol and abuse it, probably already have a package of problems and issues. Certainly alcohol can be an enabler to these issues, but there is also a long drinking culture which is based on good taste, culinary habits, hospitality, and even religion.

 

[FearGod]

Islam did not rule the world for 1000 years. Islam has never ruled the world. In fact, no religion or political system has ever ruled the world. A chunk of Europe and the middle east, yeah. But are you saying China is not on this planet ? Or Africa ? South America ? North America ? The area now called Russia ? Most of Europe ?

But Tibet was almost that size once also, extending into China and Mongolia and Russia. Tibetans drink. 40% of the oat and barley grown in Tibet was used to make chang (beer) for the monks. They were very disciplined and lived with a moral code at least as strict as Islam.

And I sincerely doubt that the whole area of the Ottoman Empire was alcohol free.
Also, the phrase I bolded ( "if we attribute that to the banning of alcohol") is very dubious. Very, very dubious.

Provide some historical evidence that the spread of Islam was because alcohol was banned. Actually, don't even bother trying, the proposition is just silly.

That was not a very good answer to my very reasonable and provable point eselam.

But while we are on the subject of the Islamic Empire, what happened to it ? How is it that countries afflicted with the horror of alcohol are doing so much better ?

You attempted a false argument, as I just demonstrated. Now, without trying to falsify history, explain to me why Australia is such a happier and more prosperous place than most Islamic countries despite our enthusiastic consumption of alcohol ?

Why is it that so many muslims want to come and live here ? Because it is a happier, freer and more prosperous place than the muslim country they came from, right ?

You cannot deny that, so your argument fails.

A country welfare is irrevalent to the harms caused by alcohol to the individuals,we can't say that islamic empire were leading the world at the time europe were on the dark ages because of alcohol,that make no sense at all.

But we know that many accidents and problems are caused by alcohol and if you wish i can sourse hundreds of the news worldwide,we can't close our eyes from seeing real facts.

One example is the report of suicide accidents around the world,it is seldom in muslim countries.

Source : List of countries by suicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I would like to start out by saying bravo to everyone on this thread. We have managed to discuss the issue without lowering ourselves to the level of mud slinging bigots. It's really nice to see so many different cultures discussing a topic rather than arguing over it.

Any type of drink, smoke or drugs that can lead to intoxication are not allowed in Islam

The objective of this ruling is to protect the human intellect, which is a precious gift we have from our Creator

God's Guidance in this area is for our own benefit, as even drinking in moderation can easily turn into addiction

Islam is about us being free, free from all addictions and all what harms our mind, body and society

Ok Cordoba, you say that Islam is about us being free. My question to you is what about freedom of choice? Why are Muslims not free to choose whether or not to drink alcohol? Why are they not allowed to choose what religion they want to follow for that matter? While I was in Saudi I couldn't drink, own a Christian bible or talk to a girl on the street. Where is this freedom you speak of?

 

[Gharib]

Islam did not rule the world for 1000 years. Islam has never ruled the world. In fact, no religion or political system has ever ruled the world. A chunk of Europe and the middle east, yeah. But are you saying China is not on this planet ? Or Africa ? South America ? North America ? The area now called Russia ? Most of Europe ?

But Tibet was almost that size once also, extending into China and Mongolia and Russia. Tibetans drink. 40% of the oat and barley grown in Tibet was used to make chang (beer) for the monks. They were very disciplined and lived with a moral code at least as strict as Islam.

And I sincerely doubt that the whole area of the Ottoman Empire was alcohol free.
Also, the phrase I bolded ( "if we attribute that to the banning of alcohol") is very dubious. Very, very dubious.

Provide some historical evidence that the spread of Islam was because alcohol was banned. Actually, don't even bother trying, the proposition is just silly.

That was not a very good answer to my very reasonable and provable point eselam.

But while we are on the subject of the Islamic Empire, what happened to it ? How is it that countries afflicted with the horror of alcohol are doing so much better ?

You attempted a false argument, as I just demonstrated. Now, without trying to falsify history, explain to me why Australia is such a happier and more prosperous place than most Islamic countries despite our enthusiastic consumption of alcohol ?

Why is it that so many muslims want to come and live here ? Because it is a happier, freer and more prosperous place than the muslim country they came from, right ?

You cannot deny that, so your argument fails.

OK, it didn't rule over every bit of land, it ruled over most of the known world. And still it did way better than what Australia is doing.

But lets get back to topic, as I already said:

None of that has anything to do with how the country is running.

The consumption or lack of consumption of alcohol has nothing to do with the success of the country. Why is the US failing, they too allow alcohol?

 

[Gharib]

Wouldn't that point that perhaps we should enforce ban laws against selling alcohol to teen agers, and banning alcohol in the working place, rather than doing away with the entire culture of drinking?

Many people enjoy drinking in moderation. I enjoy a good glass of wine, scotch or beer. I don't turn violent when I drink, and I don't walk the streets looking for trouble. Those people who cannot handle alcohol and abuse it, probably already have a package of problems and issues. Certainly alcohol can be an enabler to these issues, but there is also a long drinking culture which is based on good taste, culinary habits, hospitality, and even religion.

I know that there is some goodness from alcohol. If it was allowed for Muslims, there are plenty of food that I'd be happy to eat which have alcohol.

If you ban something to a certain age group and permit it for other age groups then I'm sure you know how "effective" that is. The idea of fake ID was developed in non-Islamic societies as a result of alcohol being banned for teenagers.

You are focusing on the idea that you drink in moderation therefore people like yourself should not have to pay the consequences of others and be deprived of alcohol. There are people who, if allowed to have a gun, would not use it to kill anything. But the fear of them snapping one day has caused governments to either ban them altogether or grant licences to everyone who can get it. There are more shooting and killings in the US than there are in Australia even though guns have been given to 'responsible' people. They wouldn't just give it to those with a history I presume.

 

[apophenia]

A country welfare is irrevalent to the harms caused by alcohol to the individuals,we can't say that islamic empire were leading the world at the time europe were on the dark ages because of alcohol,that make no sense at all.

But we know that many accidents and problems are caused by alcohol and if you wish i can sourse hundreds of the news worldwide,we can't close our eyes from seeing real facts.

One example is the report of suicide accidents around the world,it is seldom in muslim countries.

I am well aware that alcohol causes health and social problems. Of all deaths caused by drugs, around 25% are caused by alcohol. And alcohol does fuel outbursts of aggressive behaviour in some people. This subject is widely discussed here in Australia where I live.

The point I am making is, despite that, the overall quality of life is superior here. Tell me FearGod, what are the statistics for refugees and people seeking asylum ? Can you show a list of the countries which people are most enthusiastic about leaving ?

How many peolpe leave the west to seek a better life in a muslim country ? The answer is either zero or very close to zero. Nobody leaves countries where alcohol is available to live in a muslim country. Not even muslims !

Please Fear God, tell me, why do you think that is ?

Have you considered the possibility that for most people, alcohol has a positive effect in their lives ? Alcohol is a disinhibitor. That means that people are more likely to reveal their true feelings when affected by alcohol. This is why it is considered to have a 'humanising' effect on people - in communities where alcohol is consumed, people are more aware of the truth about each others feelings. That is the reason for the famous saying 'in vino veritas' - which means in wine there is truth. The truth being referred to here is the actual personal truth about peoples feelings, not some kind of religious idea.

So perhaps the fact that in non-muslim countries people have the cultural habit of drinking together means that we are more honest with one another, and therefore more tolerant of one another. This may also explain why, without such severely enforced moral codes as in muslim countries, the western countries are happier and more prosperous. And you cannot deny that they are ! Why else would muslims being coming to live here ?

 

[apophenia]

OK, it didn't rule over every bit of land, it ruled over most of the known world. And still it did way better than what Australia is doing.

But lets get back to topic, as I already said: None of that has anything to do with how the country is running.

The known world ? You mean the other 95% didn't know they existed ?

Known to whom ? So you are saying muslims ruled the world they knew about - and look at a map of the world, the Islamic Empire is a very small fraction of it. By your logic, the Aztecs ruled the known world, because that was the only world they knew. It isn't good logic eselam. Have another look at that map ... Maybe what you are demonstrating is that your muslim-oriented world view is myopic - you only regard your corner of the world as being real, apparently.

And you will need to explain what you mean by "None of that has anything to do with how the country is running." It seems to me that I am talking precisely about how the country is running. Great economy, healthy people living a much more comfortable life than muslims in their own countries - so what are you talking about exactly ?

BTW ... if the topic is "how the country is running", perhaps we should look at the middle east and do a country by country analysis of "how the country is running." And if you are linking alcohol to "how the country is running" then obviously it is recommended for muslims to start drinking !