Islam and Inter-Faith Marriages

[ZoyaHayat]

But then why should Gnostics inter-marry?Do they like to marry?

BTW.Sufism(Is this orthodox islam?) has much in common with Advaita Vedanta.

Dear Anti-religion ...

For information about Sufism-please do refer to my thread titled 'What is Sufism?'...

It shall help to answer your query xxx

 

[Metempsychosis]

Dear Anti-religion ...

For information about Sufism-please do refer to my thread titled 'What is Sufism?'...

It shall help to answer your query xxx

Interestingly both will be united under Monism and not monotheism then.

 

[ZoyaHayat]

Interestingly both will be united under Monism and not monotheism then.

xxx

 

[Tiapan]

I have been following this thread and have found it very enlightening. Now just to see if I have this right.

Men can marry women of nonislamic background so long as they are of "the Book" faiths eg Christian or Jewish, but not anyone who is polytheistic or worships idols.

I then ask the question,

What of western women many of whom are not religious (atheist or agnostic) but who are secular, socially responsible and happy for others to believe what they want eg Islam.
Are Islamic men permitted to marry women of no faith?

Next men can marry women of other faiths but women cannot.

This appears traditionalist. Father works to support wife and family. The basis of this is put down to the natural differences between men and women, ie sex. This seems to ignore the fact that contraception allows a woman to pursue a career and fulfillment outside child bearing. Given the only other difference between men and women is a slight difference in approaching problems and dealing with people, does this not take away from the woman the right to decide what she would like in choice of mate and career.

What is the current Islamic view on contraception?

The next point appears to be that the woman as subordinate in the arrangement of marriage, may be coaxed to change from her Islamic religion to align with her husband. It seems this implies several things
1. A woman is weak and easily tempted away from the "righteous" path.
2. Woman can only exist in a child bearing subordinate situation for men.
3. That moving from Islam is bad, and therefore following the Quran is more important than personal happiness, implying one cannot be happy without Islam.
4. A man may have more than one wife, but a woman can only have one husband.
5. If a Muslim leaves the Islamic faith they may be rightfully killed.

Have I got it about right?
Is Islam keeping up with the times or is it holding cultures back?

I wonder how Germaine Greer would respond to this thread?

Cheers

 

[Gharib]

Fatihah it still dont make sense to me :S...

i'm not Fatihah, he didn't post that.

'Monotheists non-Muslims' you said-what do you mean?

well there are polytheist non muslims and there are monotheist non muslims, of the monoteist non muslims there are 2 kind, those whose religious scripture is based on an altered version of the real word of Allah sent to previous prophets (torah and bible) and those monotheists whose religion is based on something other than what has been revealed from Allah.

Let's take 'non-Muslims' as 'non-Monotheists'...so are you saying Monotheists are non-Monotheists? :S...

no monotheists can me of the people of the book and just monotheists.

A Monotheist is a Monotheist-simple!!!you cant like say just because you are a Muslim you are right or above all...

why not?

a question to you, who is above whom or right between a monotheist and a polytheist?

Monotheism exists in majority of the World religions...

yes correct

All Monotheist do submit to there God(Allah,Aum,Onkar,Jehovah etc in their respective language)...so how does that make a Monotheist non-Monotheist?

i'm not saying anything about monotheists being non-monotheists

 

[Gharib]

Salaam esalam, how do u do.

very well elhamdulilah, and you?

I agree with you esalam that this is prevailing consensus, which I disagree with BTW. If this was in the general debates section, perhaps I would state my views more clearly. (Perhaps this is one of the things that justify my anarchist label.)

I can see a few flaws in your argument though:
1.The verse 2:221 clearly refers to the pagan Arabs, and I believe it is standard Islamic practice that things which are not explicitly prohibited are allowed. Moreovers, Christians, Jews, Sikhs, and even Hindus etc are not idolators in the sense referred to in the verse.

i can understand why you have said that the verse refers to the pagan arabs, but you must know that what orders the first generation of muslims received also applies to all the generations of muslims. having said that, the verse never mentiones a particular group of people other than idolators. so it applies to the muslim arabs not to marry non muslim arabs just as it applies to chinese muslims not to marry chinese non muslims.

2.It is my contention that the second verse is also being interpreted incorrectly. It needs to be examined in the historical context, and is again referring to the pagan Arabs. See 49:14 for example. Since that verse clearly states that all Muslim(submitting) Arabs are not believers, so the logical conclusion is that all their marriages are invalidated as well. This is of course not the case. I believe, that verses are picked out of line here.

historically, almost all the verses of the quran speak about the arabs. but as i said before what applied to them also applies to us. in the quran Allah says to Muhamed (saws) to tell his women to cover, but all the other women are also covered, in islam there is no race, colour or nationality, there only is muslim and non muslim. we judge a muslim according to his actions, so if someone goes to the mosques, goes to hajj, fasts during ramadan but is a hypocrite by intention, then we only judge with what we see and in this case this hypocrite is a muslim because on the outside he does what every other muslim does.

i also fail to see how the following verse says that All Muslim Arabs are not believers

"And He said concerning the immigrant Muslim women: "Then if you know them to be Believers, do not send them back to the unbelievers. They are not lawful for them (as wives), nor are they lawful for them (as husbands)." (Al-Mumtahanah: 10)"

from my understanding the verse says that if the muslims know certain people (in this case women) to be believers (based on their actions) then they are not to be returned to their unbelieving husbands (based on their actions)

 

[Fatihah]

I have been following this thread and have found it very enlightening. Now just to see if I have this right.

Men can marry women of nonislamic background so long as they are of "the Book" faiths eg Christian or Jewish, but not anyone who is polytheistic or worships idols.

I then ask the question,

What of western women many of whom are not religious (atheist or agnostic) but who are secular, socially responsible and happy for others to believe what they want eg Islam.
Are Islamic men permitted to marry women of no faith?

Next men can marry women of other faiths but women cannot.

This appears traditionalist. Father works to support wife and family. The basis of this is put down to the natural differences between men and women, ie sex. This seems to ignore the fact that contraception allows a woman to pursue a career and fulfillment outside child bearing. Given the only other difference between men and women is a slight difference in approaching problems and dealing with people, does this not take away from the woman the right to decide what she would like in choice of mate and career.

What is the current Islamic view on contraception?

The next point appears to be that the woman as subordinate in the arrangement of marriage, may be coaxed to change from her Islamic religion to align with her husband. It seems this implies several things
1. A woman is weak and easily tempted away from the "righteous" path.
2. Woman can only exist in a child bearing subordinate situation for men.
3. That moving from Islam is bad, and therefore following the Quran is more important than personal happiness, implying one cannot be happy without Islam.
4. A man may have more than one wife, but a woman can only have one husband.
5. If a Muslim leaves the Islamic faith they may be rightfully killed.

Have I got it about right?
Is Islam keeping up with the times or is it holding cultures back?

I wonder how Germaine Greer would respond to this thread?

Cheers

Response: For your first question, muslim men are not allowed to marry women of no faith. Not only would ideologies clash, but such a marriage would be dishonoring to Allah(swt). This is because the woman does not love or praise Allah, and to love someone in such a special way, when they do not even love and worship Allah, would simply be dishonoring to Allah. This isn't even a matter of religion, but principle. Would you love a woman who doesn't show love to your mother? As muslims, we love Allah more than anything. Naturally, the love of your mother would probably prevent such a marriage. This is the case in a marriage between a muslim man and a woman of no faith.

As for contraception, the Prophet is reported to have said, concerning the practice of coitus interruptus that one should not practice it because if Allah destines for one to have a child, then it will happen, regardless.

As for your 5 implications, none of them are based on any merit of islam. Islam is not responsible or obligated to keep up with anytime. It is the perfect way of life, ordained by Allah. So any time that differs from from islam is an imperfect time, according to the teachings of islam.

 

[Sahar]

As for contraception, the Prophet is reported to have said, concerning the practice of coitus interruptus that one should not practice it because if Allah destines for one to have a child, then it will happen, regardless.

This is not true, the prophet didn't prohibit it, plus contraception is allowed as a way of family planning.

the prominent Muslim scholar, Sheik Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, states:

“The preservation of the human species is unquestionably the primary objective of marriage, and such preservation of the species requires continued reproduction. Accordingly, Islam encourages having many children and has blessed both male and female progeny. However, it allows the Muslim to plan his family due to valid reasons and recognized necessities.

The common method of contraception at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was coitus interruptus (withdrawal of the penis from the vagina just before ejaculation) thus preventing semen from entering the vagina. The Companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) engaged in this practice during the period of the Qur’anic revelation. Jabir (may Allah be pleased with him) said, 'We practiced coitus interruptus during the time of Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) while the Qur’an was being revealed.' (Reported by al-Bukhari and Muslim)

Another version of this hadith, narrated by Muslim, reads, 'We practiced coitus interruptus during the time of Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him). He came to know about it, but he did not prohibit it.'

In a gathering at which `Umar was present, someone remarked, ‘Some say that coitus interruptus is a minor form of burying a child alive.’ To this `Ali replied, ‘This is not so before the completion of seven stages (of reproduction): being a product of the earth, then a drop of semen, then a clot, then a little lump of tissue, then bones, then bones clothed with flesh, which then become like another creation.’ ‘You are right,’ said `Umar, ‘May Allah prolong your life.’

Valid Reasons for Contraception:

The first valid reason for contraception is the fear that the pregnancy or delivery might endanger the life or health of the mother; the criterion of determining this possibility is experience or the opinion of a reliable physician. Allah Almighty says: '... And do not be cast into ruin by your own hands....' (Al-Baqarah: 195) and, '... and kill not one another. Lo! Allah is ever Merciful unto you.' (An-Nisa': 29)

Another reason is the fear that the burden of children may hamper the family’s circumstances so much that one might accept or do something haram (unlawful) to satisfy their needs. Allah says: '... Allah desires ease for you, and He does not desire hardship for you...' (Al-Baqarah: 185) and, '... It is not Allah’s desire to place a burden upon you...' (Al-Ma'idah: 7)

Another valid reason is the fear that the new pregnancy or a new baby might harm a suckling child. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) termed intercourse with a nursing mother, or rather the intercourse, which results in pregnancy while the mother is still nursing a baby, 'Gheelah,' emphasizing the fact that pregnancy would pollute the milk thus causing great harm to the suckling infant.

Since he was greatly concerned with the welfare of his Ummah, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) dissuaded people from what would harm them.

Read more: Contraception: Permissible? - IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar
​

Sheikh M. S. Al-Munajjid, a prominent Saudi Islamic lecturer and author, adds:
"The answer to question of contraception is found in the following three points:

1. Giving birth is the right of both husband and wife, and neither one of them has the right to deprive the other from doing so.

2. It is prohibited to take any measure, which would permanently prevent pregnancy, or cause infertility. It is permissible, however, to use temporary birth control methods to delay pregnancy, as in the case of delaying pregnancy for the two years of breastfeeding the first child.

3. It is prohibited to use any birth control method which would harm the body, as the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: 'Do not (impose) harm, nor (inflect) harm.'"

Read more: Contraception: Permissible? - IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar
​

 

[Tiapan]

Thank you Fatihah for clarifying some of what I ask.

Response: For your first question, muslim men are not allowed to marry women of no faith. Not only would ideologies clash, but such a marriage would be dishonoring to Allah(swt). This is because the woman does not love or praise Allah, and to love someone in such a special way, when they do not even love and worship Allah, would simply be dishonoring to Allah. This isn't even a matter of religion, but principle.

First how does nothing clash with something. If the woman has no connection with deities, but allows others to openly follow their own beliefs, how can there be a clash unless the male forced the female to do things against her will which I presume would be totally unIslamic.

Also I would have thought love between a man and his wife was the most important ideal in life, giving love and a nurturing environment for rearing their children, with respect for your revered divinity rather than love.

Why does it dishonor Allah(SWT), if in the womens mind he does not exist, and is an active helpful person in the community? Surely a good Allah (swt) is forgiving of ignorance, and blesses good doers?

Would you love a woman who doesn't show love to your mother?

That would depend a lot on the personality of my mother and my wife. My mother is not perfect, so I could understand some degree of animosity should it occur, fortunately in my case it is only mild. I consider it normal human interaction. On the other hand my Mother-in-law was a test pilot at a broom factory.

As muslims, we love Allah more than anything.

Are you saying you love your deity more than your own children, I find that very hard to believe, or do you not have children?

Naturally, the love of your mother would probably prevent such a marriage. This is the case in a marriage between a muslim man and a woman of no faith.

I have a platonic relationship with my mother and a sexual relation ship with my wife, love was that warm feeling you get when your with your family. It is nonspecific in the sense I can get the same feeling walking through a beautiful rain forest or patting the dog.

As for contraception, the Prophet is reported to have said, concerning the practice of coitus interruptus that one should not practice it because if Allah destines for one to have a child, then it will happen, regardless.

I totally agree with your mate Allah (swt) I do not consider Coitus interuptus as a method of birth control in the modern sense as it is totally unreliable. So my original question remains. Can an Islamic woman use contraceptives eg IUD, the pill, condoms etc.

As for your 5 implications, none of them are based on any merit of Islam.

I didn't really want a comment on the merit of the points, rather purely are they true or not? So here they are again, just need a true or false reply. I am sure there are exceptions for every case but I am talking of the general consensus of Muslim thought.

1. In Islam a woman by definition is weak and easily tempted away from the "righteous" path. (True or False)?
2. In Islam a Woman can only exist in a child bearing subordinate situation for men. (True or False)?
3. That moving from Islam is bad, and therefore following the Quran is more important than personal happiness, implying one cannot be happy without Islam. (True or False)?
4. A man may have more than one wife, but a woman can only have one husband. (True or False)?
5. If a Muslim leaves the Islamic faith they may be rightfully killed. (True or False)?

Islam is not responsible or obligated to keep up with anytime. It is the perfect way of life, ordained by Allah. So any time that differs from from islam is an imperfect time, according to the teachings of islam.

That is your opinion and you are fully entitled to it, so I guess we simply have different definitions of the words "perfect" and "imperfect".

These interactions through forum threads such as this, I believe are very important to build bridges across cultures through a sea of hostile preconceptions. So I thank you for taking the time to expand my knowledge of your culture and deity.

I ask because here in Australia second generation women of Australian Muslim families are now more and more marrying non-Muslim Australian men. They both seem as happy as any other couples.

Cheers

 

[Gharib]

This is not true, the prophet didn't prohibit it, plus contraception is allowed as a way of family planning.

the prominent Muslim scholar, Sheik Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, states:

“The preservation of the human species is unquestionably the primary objective of marriage, and such preservation of the species requires continued reproduction. Accordingly, Islam encourages having many children and has blessed both male and female progeny. However, it allows the Muslim to plan his family due to valid reasons and recognized necessities.

The common method of contraception at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was coitus interruptus (withdrawal of the penis from the vagina just before ejaculation) thus preventing semen from entering the vagina. The Companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) engaged in this practice during the period of the Qur’anic revelation. Jabir (may Allah be pleased with him) said, 'We practiced coitus interruptus during the time of Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) while the Qur’an was being revealed.' (Reported by al-Bukhari and Muslim)

Another version of this hadith, narrated by Muslim, reads, 'We practiced coitus interruptus during the time of Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him). He came to know about it, but he did not prohibit it.'

In a gathering at which `Umar was present, someone remarked, ‘Some say that coitus interruptus is a minor form of burying a child alive.’ To this `Ali replied, ‘This is not so before the completion of seven stages (of reproduction): being a product of the earth, then a drop of semen, then a clot, then a little lump of tissue, then bones, then bones clothed with flesh, which then become like another creation.’ ‘You are right,’ said `Umar, ‘May Allah prolong your life.’

Valid Reasons for Contraception:

The first valid reason for contraception is the fear that the pregnancy or delivery might endanger the life or health of the mother; the criterion of determining this possibility is experience or the opinion of a reliable physician. Allah Almighty says: '... And do not be cast into ruin by your own hands....' (Al-Baqarah: 195) and, '... and kill not one another. Lo! Allah is ever Merciful unto you.' (An-Nisa': 29)

Another reason is the fear that the burden of children may hamper the family’s circumstances so much that one might accept or do something haram (unlawful) to satisfy their needs. Allah says: '... Allah desires ease for you, and He does not desire hardship for you...' (Al-Baqarah: 185) and, '... It is not Allah’s desire to place a burden upon you...' (Al-Ma'idah: 7)

Another valid reason is the fear that the new pregnancy or a new baby might harm a suckling child. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) termed intercourse with a nursing mother, or rather the intercourse, which results in pregnancy while the mother is still nursing a baby, 'Gheelah,' emphasizing the fact that pregnancy would pollute the milk thus causing great harm to the suckling infant.

Since he was greatly concerned with the welfare of his Ummah, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) dissuaded people from what would harm them.

Read more: Contraception: Permissible? - IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar​

Sheikh M. S. Al-Munajjid, a prominent Saudi Islamic lecturer and author, adds:
"The answer to question of contraception is found in the following three points:

1. Giving birth is the right of both husband and wife, and neither one of them has the right to deprive the other from doing so.

2. It is prohibited to take any measure, which would permanently prevent pregnancy, or cause infertility. It is permissible, however, to use temporary birth control methods to delay pregnancy, as in the case of delaying pregnancy for the two years of breastfeeding the first child.

3. It is prohibited to use any birth control method which would harm the body, as the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: 'Do not (impose) harm, nor (inflect) harm.'"

Read more: Contraception: Permissible? - IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar​

this is correct. i have read those hadith (or similar ones) mentioned in the answer, they are from sahih bukhari. the prophet (saws) has not prohibited birth control.

 

[Tiapan]

Thankyou Not4me and Eselam for your informed responses.

It is fantastic that Islam embraces good family planning practices.

Having said that, surely the lifting of the chains of unexpected pregnancy, has transformed women from underling to the equal of men and therefore in a modern world should not women have more choice than was available before this miraculous technology Allah (SWT) has blessed you with, was available? Hence my earlier question is islam holding back society by not adjusting to social change?

Also with 1+ Billion Muslims on the planet, although we need to breed to survive, is there really a need to rush and over do it? I would have thought 2-3 kids was plenty in this day and age and much kinder on Mother Earth.

BTW I would still like answers to my other questions.

Cheers

 

[A-ManESL]

i can understand why you have said that the verse refers to the pagan arabs, but you must know that what orders the first generation of muslims received also applies to all the generations of muslims. having said that, the verse never mentiones a particular group of people other than idolators. so it applies to the muslim arabs not to marry non muslim arabs just as it applies to chinese muslims not to marry chinese non muslims.

My position is that to identify the pagan polytheists of Mecca in the time of the Prophet with today's non-Muslims is an unfair identification. The polytheists of Mecca practiced a religion which was a religion in name only, this is not the case with other major religions of the world. When the Quran talks about idolators it is really referring to the kind of hypocritical belief system idolatory practiced by pagan Arabs of that time, and to generalize it to other valid major religious religious systems today is to go against the spirit of what was intended by the Quran.

The Quran repeatedly chastises the Jews of that period for believing that they are "the chosen ones", in Chapter 2 for example, and IMHO many Muslims are today guilty of the same sin.

i also fail to see how the following verse says that All Muslim Arabs are not believers

"And He said concerning the immigrant Muslim women: "Then if you know them to be Believers, do not send them back to the unbelievers. They are not lawful for them (as wives), nor are they lawful for them (as husbands)." (Al-Mumtahanah: 10)"

from my understanding the verse says that if the muslims know certain people (in this case women) to be believers (based on their actions) then they are not to be returned to their unbelieving husbands (based on their actions)

I was not referring to that verse but to 49:14 which refers to the Arab Muslim converts after the conquest of Mecca.

[49:14] The Arabs said, "We are Mu'mens (believers)." Say, "You have not believed; what you should say is, `We are Muslims (submitters),' until belief is established in your hearts." If you obey GOD and His messenger, He will not put any of your works to waste. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.-The Holy Quran

My point is if we start going by literal interpretation of every verse, then problems will arise: Who will judge whether a person is a believer or not? In that sense your interpretation of the cited verse 60:10 is flawed. In fact, I think 60:10 was revealed in context of war-times between the Arab polytheists and the Prophet.

Regards.

 

[ZoyaHayat]

I have been following this thread and have found it very enlightening. Now just to see if I have this right.

Men can marry women of nonislamic background so long as they are of "the Book" faiths eg Christian or Jewish, but not anyone who is polytheistic or worships idols.

I then ask the question,

What of western women many of whom are not religious (atheist or agnostic) but who are secular, socially responsible and happy for others to believe what they want eg Islam.
Are Islamic men permitted to marry women of no faith?

Next men can marry women of other faiths but women cannot.

This appears traditionalist. Father works to support wife and family. The basis of this is put down to the natural differences between men and women, ie sex. This seems to ignore the fact that contraception allows a woman to pursue a career and fulfillment outside child bearing. Given the only other difference between men and women is a slight difference in approaching problems and dealing with people, does this not take away from the woman the right to decide what she would like in choice of mate and career.

What is the current Islamic view on contraception?

The next point appears to be that the woman as subordinate in the arrangement of marriage, may be coaxed to change from her Islamic religion to align with her husband. It seems this implies several things
1. A woman is weak and easily tempted away from the "righteous" path.
2. Woman can only exist in a child bearing subordinate situation for men.
3. That moving from Islam is bad, and therefore following the Quran is more important than personal happiness, implying one cannot be happy without Islam.
4. A man may have more than one wife, but a woman can only have one husband.
5. If a Muslim leaves the Islamic faith they may be rightfully killed.

Have I got it about right?
Is Islam keeping up with the times or is it holding cultures back?

I wonder how Germaine Greer would respond to this thread?

Cheers

Hiya Tiapan ...

These are the questions to which i seek answers...

I am glad you mentioned them...

xxx

 

[ZoyaHayat]

This thread is going into unknown territories ...

xxx

 

[ZoyaHayat]

My position is that to identify the pagan polytheists of Mecca in the time of the Prophet with today's non-Muslims is an unfair identification. The polytheists of Mecca practiced a religion which was a religion in name only, this is not the case with other major religions of the world. When the Quran talks about idolators it is really referring to the kind of hypocritical belief system idolatory practiced by pagan Arabs of that time, and to generalize it to other valid major religious religious systems today is to go against the spirit of what was intended by the Quran.

The Quran repeatedly chastises the Jews of that period for believing that they are "the chosen ones", in Chapter 2 for example, and IMHO many Muslims are today guilty of the same sin.



I was not referring to that verse but to 49:14 which refers to the Arab Muslim converts after the conquest of Mecca.


My point is if we start going by literal interpretation of every verse, then problems will arise: Who will judge whether a person is a believer or not? In that sense your interpretation of the cited verse 60:10 is flawed. In fact, I think 60:10 was revealed in context of war-times between the Arab polytheists and the Prophet.

Regards.

Hiya A-ManESL ...

I totally agree with you ...

mwuah xxx

 

[A-ManESL]

Hiya A-ManESL ...

I totally agree with you ...

mwuah xxx

Thank goodness. xxx.

 

[Tiapan]

Thanks ZoyaHayat

I am sure my good friend Eselam is formulating an excellent informative response.
I hope not4me also contributes as she is well read and sensible in her responses.

Cheers

 

[Fatihah]

This is not true, the prophet didn't prohibit it, plus contraception is allowed as a way of family planning.

the prominent Muslim scholar, Sheik Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, states:

“The preservation of the human species is unquestionably the primary objective of marriage, and such preservation of the species requires continued reproduction. Accordingly, Islam encourages having many children and has blessed both male and female progeny. However, it allows the Muslim to plan his family due to valid reasons and recognized necessities.

The common method of contraception at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was coitus interruptus (withdrawal of the penis from the vagina just before ejaculation) thus preventing semen from entering the vagina. The Companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) engaged in this practice during the period of the Qur’anic revelation. Jabir (may Allah be pleased with him) said, 'We practiced coitus interruptus during the time of Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) while the Qur’an was being revealed.' (Reported by al-Bukhari and Muslim)

Another version of this hadith, narrated by Muslim, reads, 'We practiced coitus interruptus during the time of Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him). He came to know about it, but he did not prohibit it.'

In a gathering at which `Umar was present, someone remarked, ‘Some say that coitus interruptus is a minor form of burying a child alive.’ To this `Ali replied, ‘This is not so before the completion of seven stages (of reproduction): being a product of the earth, then a drop of semen, then a clot, then a little lump of tissue, then bones, then bones clothed with flesh, which then become like another creation.’ ‘You are right,’ said `Umar, ‘May Allah prolong your life.’

Valid Reasons for Contraception:

The first valid reason for contraception is the fear that the pregnancy or delivery might endanger the life or health of the mother; the criterion of determining this possibility is experience or the opinion of a reliable physician. Allah Almighty says: '... And do not be cast into ruin by your own hands....' (Al-Baqarah: 195) and, '... and kill not one another. Lo! Allah is ever Merciful unto you.' (An-Nisa': 29)

Another reason is the fear that the burden of children may hamper the family’s circumstances so much that one might accept or do something haram (unlawful) to satisfy their needs. Allah says: '... Allah desires ease for you, and He does not desire hardship for you...' (Al-Baqarah: 185) and, '... It is not Allah’s desire to place a burden upon you...' (Al-Ma'idah: 7)

Another valid reason is the fear that the new pregnancy or a new baby might harm a suckling child. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) termed intercourse with a nursing mother, or rather the intercourse, which results in pregnancy while the mother is still nursing a baby, 'Gheelah,' emphasizing the fact that pregnancy would pollute the milk thus causing great harm to the suckling infant.

Since he was greatly concerned with the welfare of his Ummah, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) dissuaded people from what would harm them.

Read more: Contraception: Permissible? - IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar​

Sheikh M. S. Al-Munajjid, a prominent Saudi Islamic lecturer and author, adds:
"The answer to question of contraception is found in the following three points:

1. Giving birth is the right of both husband and wife, and neither one of them has the right to deprive the other from doing so.

2. It is prohibited to take any measure, which would permanently prevent pregnancy, or cause infertility. It is permissible, however, to use temporary birth control methods to delay pregnancy, as in the case of delaying pregnancy for the two years of breastfeeding the first child.

3. It is prohibited to use any birth control method which would harm the body, as the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: 'Do not (impose) harm, nor (inflect) harm.'"

Read more: Contraception: Permissible? - IslamonLine.net - Ask The Scholar​

Response: This in in fact true. I never stated that it was prohibited in islam. I was paraphrasing a certain hadith, which suggest that no matter if you practice coitus interruptus or not, if a child is destined to be, it will be. By saying "you should not practice it", doesn't mean prohibition. It simply meant that you should not be trying to use coitus interruptus to prevent child birth because a child that is destined to be will be. Coitus interruptus won't prevent it. I wasn't speaking in a prohibition sense that coitus interruptus is wrong and forbidden. Here is the hadith:

"Abu Sa id Al-Khudri (may Allah be pleased with him) narrated: We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do coitus interruptus with them. So we asked Allah's Apostle (may the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) about it and he said "Does you really do that"? repeating the question thrice, and then said, 'There is no soul that is destined to exist but will come into existance, til the Day of Resurrection." Sahih Bukhari.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Salaam esalam, how do u do.

I agree with you esalam that this is prevailing consensus, which I disagree with BTW. If this was in the general debates section, perhaps I would state my views more clearly. (Perhaps this is one of the things that justify my anarchist label.)

I can see a few flaws in your argument though:
1.The verse 2:221 clearly refers to the pagan Arabs, and I believe it is standard Islamic practice that things which are not explicitly prohibited are allowed. Moreovers, Christians, Jews, Sikhs, and even Hindus etc are not idolators in the sense referred to in the verse.

do you have evidence from tafsir. All the ones you mentioned are idolaters. They have elements of tauhid but they have shirk in their worship. Because they forget about the uloohiyah of the tauhid and that is to worship Allah alone. They add to the worship by putting their prophets, preists, holy men, idols etc as intermediaries besides Allah or equal to Allah.

2.It is my contention that the second verse is also being interpreted incorrectly. It needs to be examined in the historical context, and is again referring to the pagan Arabs. See 49:14 for example. Since that verse clearly states that all Muslim(submitting) Arabs are not believers, so the logical conclusion is that all their marriages are invalidated as well. This is of course not the case. I believe, that verses are picked out of line here.

​

tafsir? Hadith something from fuqaha to back up your statements. Because the arabs were just like the groups you claim. where is the evidence for your exegesis of our Quran

 

[Fatihah]

Thank you Fatihah for clarifying some of what I ask.



First how does nothing clash with something. If the woman has no connection with deities, but allows others to openly follow their own beliefs, how can there be a clash unless the male forced the female to do things against her will which I presume would be totally unIslamic.

Also I would have thought love between a man and his wife was the most important ideal in life, giving love and a nurturing environment for rearing their children, with respect for your revered divinity rather than love.

Why does it dishonor Allah(SWT), if in the womens mind he does not exist, and is an active helpful person in the community? Surely a good Allah (swt) is forgiving of ignorance, and blesses good doers?

That would depend a lot on the personality of my mother and my wife. My mother is not perfect, so I could understand some degree of animosity should it occur, fortunately in my case it is only mild. I consider it normal human interaction. On the other hand my Mother-in-law was a test pilot at a broom factory.
Are you saying you love your deity more than your own children, I find that very hard to believe, or do you not have children?
I have a platonic relationship with my mother and a sexual relation ship with my wife, love was that warm feeling you get when your with your family. It is nonspecific in the sense I can get the same feeling walking through a beautiful rain forest or patting the dog.

I totally agree with your mate Allah (swt) I do not consider Coitus interuptus as a method of birth control in the modern sense as it is totally unreliable. So my original question remains. Can an Islamic woman use contraceptives eg IUD, the pill, condoms etc.

I didn't really want a comment on the merit of the points, rather purely are they true or not? So here they are again, just need a true or false reply. I am sure there are exceptions for every case but I am talking of the general consensus of Muslim thought.

1. In Islam a woman by definition is weak and easily tempted away from the "righteous" path. (True or False)?
2. In Islam a Woman can only exist in a child bearing subordinate situation for men. (True or False)?
3. That moving from Islam is bad, and therefore following the Quran is more important than personal happiness, implying one cannot be happy without Islam. (True or False)?
4. A man may have more than one wife, but a woman can only have one husband. (True or False)?
5. If a Muslim leaves the Islamic faith they may be rightfully killed. (True or False)?

That is your opinion and you are fully entitled to it, so I guess we simply have different definitions of the words "perfect" and "imperfect".

These interactions through forum threads such as this, I believe are very important to build bridges across cultures through a sea of hostile preconceptions. So I thank you for taking the time to expand my knowledge of your culture and deity.

I ask because here in Australia second generation women of Australian Muslim families are now more and more marrying non-Muslim Australian men. They both seem as happy as any other couples.

Cheers

Response: It clashes because she does not love and respect Allah as she should. To show love in a marriage to a woman who does not even love her creator would not sit well in the mind of any believing muslim man and would not sit well with Allah. This would clash. Naturally, a true believing muslim wants to spread the religion of islam. So naturally, that would include his wife. And when the wife rejects islam, it would naturally not sit well in the heart of any muslim man. Again, using an analogy, it's like loving a woman who doesn't love your mother or child. However, in this scenario, Allah is responsible for the benefits in the wife's life, which would make it more upsetting for the man. Again, using an analogy, imagine if your mother was responsibile for the well being of a woman? She made sure she was fed when she was poor, she gave her money for her bills when she needed, etc. And what does the woman do? She shows absolutely no appreciation to your mother. Not even a thank you. Now this woman wants to marry you. Naturally, no man's heart would love such an unappreciative woman. The possibility of marrying such a woman is practically, non-existing. This is the case of a marriage between s muslim man and a non-faith woman. The fact that she shows absolutely no love to Allah, would never sit well with any muslim man. This is what would clash. And such a marriage would be dishonoring to Allah.

As for contraception, it is not forbidden in islam.

Adressing your 5 questions:

1. It is not that woman are weak. It is the simple fact that men are the head of household. Again, by "head of household", I mean that he has more responsibility to maintaining the household. Islam encourages the man to work out of the household and for the woman to stay at home for security reasons. Men are by nature physically stronger and are not as sensative as women, so it is best that men would go into such a dangerous world and work, rather than woman. Men are better off fighting and defending off danger than women. Again, this does not mean that women can not defend themselves. It just simply means that, by nature, a man is better wired to do so because of his physical strength. By saying "men are not as sensative", I simply mean that a woman is not as naturally inclined to fight and cause blood shed as a man, because their emotions are more opposed to doing so. That is all. Because of these reasons, the men would have more responsibile and play a more important role for financially supporting and protecting him and his wife, and the children, if any.

Now because his role is more important, his influence is as well. So when a marriage between a muslim woman and non-muslim man exists, it is more likely that his ideology will have more of an influence on the home and relationship than the woman's religion, islam, which could cause her to discourage from her religion being that her dependant upon him strongly affects her livelihood. For this reason, such marriages are forbidden. It has nothing to do necessarily with a woman's weakness, but rather the influence the man has because of his more important role. Take for example, yourself and and President. Now there's a certain law change that you want to happen. The president does not and wants the law to stay the way it is. Now who do you think will win this battle? The president of course. It is not because you are weak, but due to the fact that you have a lesser influence and that he is head of the country, which makes his views have a greater influence. The same is the case for a marriage between a muslim woman and a non-muslim man. For when it comes to beliefs, his will have a greater influence because his role as head of household. It's not because of a woman's weakness.

2. No. A woman is not just for child bearing.

3. Yes. One can be happy without islam. But one can be there happiest with it. Yes, moving from islam is bad, because by doing so, you are moving from the many wonderful blessings of Allah(swt).

4. True.

5. False. One is not to be killed if they leave islam. However, in a true islamic society, one would be questioned as to why by the head of state. This is because embracing islam then leaving has been the tactic used to divide and conquer muslims. If one did so for this reason, they should be killed. If not, then a peace treaty should be made between the person and the muslims.