Islam and Interfaith

[Agondonter]

Islam teaches that all human beings are brothers and sisters in humanity

There is a common ground for dialogue with followers of Abrahamic faiths

But there is a wider circle of dialogue that covers all people, regardless of their faiths and beliefs.

In her book The Trouble with Islam Today, author Irshad Manji, a Muslim, makes a distinction between Islam as an ideal and Islam as it really is in today's world. I think that's the correct approach, but it renders Islam into two very distinct religions: one in accord with Christian values and following the example set by Jesus and another that follows the example of Muhammad the warrior: Christ and anti-Christ.

Now, I've noticed that many posters here quoting from the Quran seem unaware that the Quran is arranged according to the length of the chapter rather than chronologically and that many Muslims use the rules of "abrogation," where the older elements of the Quran are abrogated by the more recent. It's a common practice in Islam, though not universal. Apologists seeking to portray Islam as peaceful quote from the older parts of the Quran which are abrogated by the later writings. So, really, when talking about Islam we have to realize we're talking about two distinct religions under one umbrella.

 

[Agondonter]

All countries around the world put taxes on its people (it's ironic that here in Saudi Arabia individuals don't have taxes actually) and deny them things if those taxes are not payed. Why is that a problem only when it comes to the Islamic rule? Tribute is a tax, a so very low tax, and not paying it does not lead to execution. In the lawless past, such rules were needed. I agree that today in current situations it is not needed anymore since it got covered by other means.

This is my belief in it. I could be wrong, just like you could.

To the the politically correct non-Muslims who try to portray Islam as compatible with Western ideals and values: Need I say more?

 

[sun rise]

I believe even polytheists are included. The very well known verse of Quraan 60:8 says "God does not forbid you from those who do not wage war on you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, God loves those who act justly". It does not specify what kind of people, it generalizes, and that's why I include polytheists.

I hope that verse helps in this. What's your opinion in it?

I've been to interfaith gatherings which included Muslims, people with nature religions and so forth. So I've seen that verse in action.

 

[sun rise]

That's pretty good. I also know that there's that entire Surah that ends with "To you your way, and to me mine."

My beef is largely with what's being presented in the OP and subsequent posts, which all imply that non-monotheist religions don't count because one of the stated goals seems to be to get everyone to worship the "One God".

Christians want everyone to be Christian. You could if you wanted to divide religions into those that want converts and those that don't or discourage them.

 

[DawudTalut]

.......
My beef is largely with what's being presented in the OP and subsequent posts, which all imply that non-monotheist religions don't count because one of the stated goals seems to be to get everyone to worship the "One God".

Peace be on you.
1= God in Islam is for all people -- believers or non believers.
[1:2] All praise belongs to Allah, Lord of all the worlds (peoples).

2=Prophet of Islam is for all people -- believers or non believers:
[7:159] Say, ‘O mankind! truly I am a Messenger to you all from Allah to Whom belongs the kingdom of the heavens and the earth. There is no God but He. He gives life, and He causes death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Prophet, the Immaculate one, who believes in Allah and His words; and follow him that you may be rightly guided.’

3=Believers are explicitly asked to be Just with all people (which include non believers):
[5:9] O ye who believe! be steadfast in the cause of Allah, bearing witness in equity; and let not a people’s enmity incite you to act otherwise than with justice. Be always just, that is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allah. Surely, Allah is aware of what you do.

4= [21:108] And We have sent thee not but as a mercy for all peoples.

These verses [above #2 and #3 are from OP] include non believers too (whether they believe in God and Prophet or not).


5= Even if other religions and ideologies do not feel agreement with the Islamic concept of universality of truth, they can show respect to the Founders and holy personages of other faiths.

6= Cooperation in all good plans and schemes for the mutual benefit of mankind must be promoted and encouraged.
[5:3]"..........And help one another in righteousness and piety; but help not one another in sin and transgression......."

7=
[5:68]"O Messenger! convey to the people what has been revealed to thee from thy Lord........"
[73:20] This, surely, is a reminder. So let him, who will, take a way unto his Lord.

8=
International Relations—The Principle of Absolute Justice Equally Applicable to All
Page 245 @ https://www.alislam.org/library/books/IslamsResponseToContemporaryIssues.pdf

Therefore, even though Islam conveys message of One God to every one, it recognizes that there are those who do not believe in One God. In this world a peaceful existence of all is sought without compulsion. It is not said anywhere in Islam that if people do not accept Islam kill them.....No, not at all.

Good wishes to you, friend!

 

[Smart_Guy]

That's pretty good. I also know that there's that entire Surah that ends with "To you your way, and to me mine."

My beef is largely with what's being presented in the OP and subsequent posts, which all imply that non-monotheist religions don't count because one of the stated goals seems to be to get everyone to worship the "One God".

Yeah, such implications are there indeed, unfortunately. I guess it depends on the Muslims who interpret it then apply that and give those implications. Islam is really complicated to understand.

Yes, Islam does want everyone to become/be Muslim. But I don't this is a point of concern. I think what concerns is how that's applied. I, for example, hope that you would become Muslim, but I'm perfectly accepting of you not, and I'm fine with you're decision. I already think you're cool. Doom lover to Doom lover, eh?

 

[Smart_Guy]

To the the politically correct non-Muslims who try to portray Islam as compatible with Western ideals and values: Need I say more?

My apologies, I don't get your point.

Note:
I am a PC guy. I believe It's much better than Mac

 

[Riverwolf]

Yeah, such implications are there indeed, unfortunately. I guess it depends on the Muslims who interpret it then apply that and give those implications. Islam is really complicated to understand.

Yes, Islam does want everyone to become/be Muslim. But I don't this is a point of concern. I think what concerns is how that's applied. I, for example, hope that you would become Muslim, but I'm perfectly accepting of you not, and I'm fine with you're decision. I already think you're cool. Doom lover to Doom lover, eh?

Hehe. Exactly.

As long as my decision can be accepted and respected, then all is well.

 

[Riverwolf]

Peace be on you.
1= God in Islam is for all people -- believers or non believers.
[1:2] All praise belongs to Allah, Lord of all the worlds (peoples).

Your God is not my God or my lord.

Just as mine is not yours.

5= Even if other religions and ideologies do not feel agreement with the Islamic concept of universality of truth, they can show respect to the Founders and holy personages of other faiths.

We have no Founders or "holy personages," nor do we have need for any. We will give respect if like respect is given.

Therefore, even though Islam conveys message of One God to every one, it recognizes that there are those who do not believe in One God. In this world a peaceful existence of all is sought without compulsion. It is not said anywhere in Islam that if people do not accept Islam kill them.....No, not at all.

I know. I don't listen to Western media's demonization of Islam. While there are certainly Muslims who want me dead because I'm not Muslim, there are also Christians who want likewise. And even other Heathens who would want likewise because of... complicated matters. I blame none of these on Islam, Christianity, or my Gods.

However, there doesn't need to be physical violence in order for there to be aggression towards us. If you want to have an interfaith discussion, you have to keep the fact that you think we're theologically wrong to yourself, just as we would do.

Such a discussion must NEVER involve theology. It should strictly involve matters that we can all, for sure, agree need to happen upon coming in. And that ONLY involves how to help make the world a better place.

Good wishes to you, friend!

In Grith.

 

[Agondonter]

My apologies, I don't get your point.

My point is that by comparing tribute imposed by Islam to Western governments that impose taxes is an admission that religious elitism is intrinsic to Islam.

 

[sayak83]

Peace be on you.
1= God in Islam is for all people -- believers or non believers.
[1:2] All praise belongs to Allah, Lord of all the worlds (peoples).

2=Prophet of Islam is for all people -- believers or non believers:
[7:159] Say, ‘O mankind! truly I am a Messenger to you all from Allah to Whom belongs the kingdom of the heavens and the earth. There is no God but He. He gives life, and He causes death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Prophet, the Immaculate one, who believes in Allah and His words; and follow him that you may be rightly guided.’

3=Believers are explicitly asked to be Just with all people (which include non believers):
[5:9] O ye who believe! be steadfast in the cause of Allah, bearing witness in equity; and let not a people’s enmity incite you to act otherwise than with justice. Be always just, that is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allah. Surely, Allah is aware of what you do.

4= [21:108] And We have sent thee not but as a mercy for all peoples.

These verses [above #2 and #3 are from OP] include non believers too (whether they believe in God and Prophet or not).


5= Even if other religions and ideologies do not feel agreement with the Islamic concept of universality of truth, they can show respect to the Founders and holy personages of other faiths.

6= Cooperation in all good plans and schemes for the mutual benefit of mankind must be promoted and encouraged.
[5:3]"..........And help one another in righteousness and piety; but help not one another in sin and transgression......."

7=
[5:68]"O Messenger! convey to the people what has been revealed to thee from thy Lord........"
[73:20] This, surely, is a reminder. So let him, who will, take a way unto his Lord.

8=
International Relations—The Principle of Absolute Justice Equally Applicable to All
Page 245 @ https://www.alislam.org/library/books/IslamsResponseToContemporaryIssues.pdf

Therefore, even though Islam conveys message of One God to every one, it recognizes that there are those who do not believe in One God. In this world a peaceful existence of all is sought without compulsion. It is not said anywhere in Islam that if people do not accept Islam kill them.....No, not at all.

Good wishes to you, friend!

Cool. That clears the air. And good wishes.
Now what do you want the interfaith dialogue about?

 

[Smart_Guy]

My point is that by comparing tribute imposed by Islam to Western governments that impose taxes is an admission that religious elitism is intrinsic to Islam.

Tribute by Islam to Western governments? Tribute in Islam is only for non Muslims under Islamic rule of the Muslim country hosting those non Muslims. It is also imposed only on those capable of paying it if they can and when they can. It's not imposed anymore in Muslims countries with non Muslims anyway.

 

[Agondonter]

Tribute in Islam is only for non Muslims under Islamic rule of the Muslim country hosting those non Muslims.

My point exactly. It's a barbaric act of religious elitism.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

To the the politically correct non-Muslims who try to portray Islam as compatible with Western ideals and values: Need I say more?

Please take your right-wing ranting to a debate forum. This isn't the place for it and it's quite irritating.

 

[DawudTalut]

Cool. That clears the air. And good wishes.
Now what do you want the interfaith dialogue about?

Peace be on you.
IMHO the common factor is peace among people -- the all people. Currently there are various kind of worlds exist within this world, viz, the first world, the third world etc. While people in first and second (if there is one) enjoy many things, people in third world lack much.
Basic issues:
Hunger
Dress
Water
Shelter
[Reminder for Muslim readers only :commandments to Adam , chapter 20 Quran, verses 119, 120]

1=What can be done for all these issues for humanity.

2=There is lot of rain water in the world which is wasted every year, How can it be preserved?

3=There is lot of food wastage in some places, , how can the clean portions be used and sent for people worldwide.

4=How to make better shelters.

5=Education, training, stoppage of funding to armed conflicts under various labels etc there are various issues which people of various faith can take up.

What you think? or any body think?

People of various faith can ask, advise, suggest and do whatever to stir world opinion to make the world and humanity better and safer.

 

[sayak83]

Peace be on you.
IMHO the common factor is peace among people -- the all people. Currently there are various kind of worlds exist within this world, viz, the first world, the third world etc. While people in first and second (if there is one) enjoy many things, people in third world lack much.
Basic issues:
Hunger
Dress
Water
Shelter
[Reminder for Muslim readers:commandments to Adam , chapter 20 Quran]

What can be done for all these issues.

There is lot of rain water in the world which is wasted every year, How can it be preserved?

There is lot of food wastage in some places, , how can the clean portions be used and shipped for people worldwide.

How to make better shelters.

Education, training, funding to armed conflicts under various labels etc there are various issues which people of various faith can take up.

What you think? or any body think?

Lots of NGO's are working on these issues, so supporting them. Also politically voting for parties and policies that the friendlier towards poverty reduction. Being more aware of the UN sustainable developmental goals an putting pressure on the various governments to fund and enact policies that help achieve them.
http://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/sustainable-development-goals/

I work to develop clean combustion technologies that increase sustainability of energy and transportation systems. That's helps a little, hopefully. Certainly hope to do much more as I get more established in life.

 

[Sundance]

Peace be on all.
Holy Quran says:
[ch3:v65] Say, ‘O People of the Book! come to a word equal between us and you — that we worship none but Allah, and that we associate no partner with Him, and that some of us take not others for Lords beside Allah.’ But if they turn away, then say, ‘Bear witness that we have submitted to God.’

[2:63] Surely, the Believers, and the Jews, and the Christians and the Sabians — whichever party from among these truly believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good deeds — shall have their reward with their Lord, and no fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve.

[7:159] Say, ‘O mankind! truly I am a Messenger to you all from Allah to Whom belongs the kingdom of the heavens and the earth. There is no God but He. He gives life, and He causes death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Prophet, the Immaculate one, who believes in Allah and His words; and follow him that you may be rightly guided.’

[5:9] O ye who believe! be steadfast in the cause of Allah, bearing witness in equity; and let not a people’s enmity incite you to act otherwise than with justice. Be always just, that is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allah. Surely, Allah is aware of what you do.

====

Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad (Khalifah of Ahmadiyya Promised Messiah Mahdi ) said:

“I hope and pray that we, who are the representatives of different faiths and religions, and who have gathered here today to practically demonstrate these loving teachings, all strive towards worshipping the One God, by treating His Creation with justice and by fulfilling their due rights.

Certainly these are the original teachings of all religions. We should utilise all of our resources and capabilities to foster a better society, to help God’s Creation and to spread love, affection and peace at every level. The urgent and critical need of the world today is to establish peace and faith in God.”

Ref: https://www.alislam.org/egazette/pr...-of-world-religions-held-at-guildhall-london/

@DawudTalut, may the peace and many blessings of He Who is the One God be given to you (and all Muslims) in abundance! Yá Bahá'u'l-Abhá!

 

[DawudTalut]

@ DJ_sXe
Peace be on you. Thanks and prayers for you.

 

[Smart_Guy]

My point exactly. It's a barbaric act of religious elitism.

Like I implied before, you left everything around the world about taxes and come complaining about this calling it religious elitism, which is even much lenient than most if not all of them? You seem like you have some bitterness about Islam in something you don't understand! Muslims are obliged to pay much more than the tribute non Muslim (used to) have to pay, and they get benefits for it.

You know nothing, Jon Snow! (Sorry, couldn't hold back )

 

[Riverwolf]

Peace be on you.
IMHO the common factor is peace among people -- the all people. Currently there are various kind of worlds exist within this world, viz, the first world, the third world etc. While people in first and second (if there is one) enjoy many things, people in third world lack much.
Basic issues:
Hunger
Dress
Water
Shelter
[Reminder for Muslim readers only :commandments to Adam , chapter 20 Quran, verses 119, 120]

I think it will help to understand a bit of history regarding that. The whole "First World" and "Third World" thing, as I understand, is largely a holdover from Cold War politics. The "First World" referred to US and allies, USSR and allies, and China. Basically the Superpowers. The "Everyone Else" was the Third World, regardless of technological development. So I'm not sure if there's a "Second World."

I could be completely wrong, though; that era is VERY politically complicated and I'm only peripherally familiar with it.

There's also another problem that comes from overpopulation, and it's one of the ones that nobody's talking about at all, though I can hardly blame people.

With overpopulation, particularly in areas where the population is very dense (like India and Japan), there's going to inevitably be a problem with biological waste.

1=What can be done for all these issues for humanity.

2=There is lot of rain water in the world which is wasted every year, How can it be preserved?

3=There is lot of food wastage in some places, , how can the clean portions be used and sent for people worldwide.

4=How to make better shelters.

5=Education, training, stoppage of funding to armed conflicts under various labels etc there are various issues which people of various faith can take up.

What you think? or any body think?

People of various faith can ask, advise, suggest and do whatever to stir world opinion to make the world and humanity better and safer.

How to tackle these issues largely depends on the resources and abilities of we for whom these aren't directly problems. For many of us, we can only help those who are in close proximity to us, and can do very little beyond donations for more worldwide issues. I generally try to keep a little bit of cash or change on me at all times for homeless people I might encounter, but that might not always be a good idea for those who live in more Metropolitan areas, where there's a LOT of homelessness.

The thing to remember about rain water is that it's not always drinkable or clean, particularly in heavily polluted areas. However, it's not really "wasted", because it does feed the ground. Last Winter and Spring in California was much rainier than it has been the past few years of drought, so there's not quite as much of a shortage (the drought is still there, mind, but it's not going to be quite as bad... which is good because this Summer is looking to be quite warm.) So rain water is preserved, it's just that it's not directly "for" us.

When it comes to food, it is a big problem, particularly in America, where people will throw out food that's perfectly good to eat for whatever reason. It's something I've been prone to doing because I'm such a picky eater and don't eat much to begin with (not because of poverty; I'm doing fine), but it's also something I've been trying to stop. I suggest others do so, as well.

When it comes to shelters, as far as I know, the shelters we have are adequate, it's just that they aren't always where they need to be. A shelter is good if it is suitable to the needs of the people living in a given place; I live in California, so there is a major need to live in earthquake-reinforced shelters, but there's absolutely no need for tornado shelters.

Those other issues are things I'm not sure how to tackle. Public education in America is abysmal and needs immense improvement, but I'm in no position to be tackling it at the moment.

I think something we all need to remember is that we need to pick our battles. As individuals and small communities, we can't tackle every single problem in the world, simply because we're not equipped to do so. However, we can tackle some issues. And we need to pick the issues we're most equipped to tackle.