Islam and the Bible

[Booko]

Post # 12.

Thanks! I'm not done reading the entire thread yet. It's a very bad habit of mine.

 

[TashaN]

Thanks! I'm not done reading the entire thread yet. It's a very bad habit of mine.

You are most welcome ...

Take your time

 

[Booko]

You are most welcome ...

Take your time

I will have some questions for you, but I think probably not tonight. I'm having a little problem making some of the connections in post 12 at the moment, but will take some time to think about them.

I'd rather ask something vaguely intelligent of you, if possible.

 

[Djamila]

So, The Truth, you believe all Christians and Jews go to hell?

 

[HopefulNikki]

then explain how many Christians are coming into Islam. It is the fastest growing religion.

The rate of growth in a religion is not an evidence in support of the religion, nor a reason to convert..."Come on, all the cool kids are doing it!" is elementary school logic.

No the Christian and Jews are the ones in the past who believed in Allah, and his prophets. So the ones who stayed on the true path of tawhid. Those that do not are going to be punished, because what would be the point of sending a messenger if what the people are doing is correct.

I'm not sure how you personally can know who is going to be punished and who isn't, especially in light of the verse that another Muslim just posted, "Those who believe (in the Qur-an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians, any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." (Quran 2:62).
This seems like a pretty big indication that Christians and Jews are not doomed simply for being Christians and Jews.

 

[TashaN]

I will have some questions for you, but I think probably not tonight. I'm having a little problem making some of the connections in post 12 at the moment, but will take some time to think about them.

I'd rather ask something vaguely intelligent of you, if possible.

Waiting

 

[TashaN]

So, The Truth, you believe all Christians and Jews go to hell?

If you weren't a muslim i would answer, but because you are, i won't. Read it by yourself from the Quran that me and you agree about.

[3:85] Anyone who accepts other than Submission (islam) as his religion, it will not be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter, he will be with the losers. (Surah 3:85)

Do you disagree with Quran? my sister ! :sarcastic

 

[Snowbear]

Plus if the bible was perfect then there would have been no reason to send the Quran.

Uh...except for the parts that foretell Muhammad (pbuh). You see, this is one of the problems I have with the idea that the Qu'ran would not be needed. If the Bible said we should expect Muhammad, then who are we to question God about what He has in mind?

Really?? I must have missed that part... unless it's where Jesus speaks of false prophets??

Thanks for a great thread, Booko... led to a fascinating discussion

 

[Hacker]

If you weren't a muslim i would answer, but because you are, i won't. Read it by yourself from the Quran that me and you agree about.

I'm not Muslim and I want to know if Jews or Christians would be sentenced to Hell according to the Koran, the verse you described just indicated that one wouldn't be allowed in paradise but did not specify eternal hell.

 

[TashaN]

Simply, anyone who hear the message of Islam and he/she ignored or refused it so he/she won't go to heaven which means, hell.

If the uncle of prophet Mohammed "who was defending him until he died" will go to hell because he refused to be a muslim so why anyone would think that he/she has an expection from this rule.

Regarding to the bible, it doesn't matter whether what we have now is the same as the original Torah and Injil or not because once Quran was revealed so that means there is no scripture is acceptable except the the Quran which came to confirm the Torah and Injil and become the only and final reveleation of God after the message of Jesus Christ "peace be upon him".

Allah says in the Quran ...

[48] To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have We prescribed a Law and an Open Way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single People, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you; so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute; (Surah 5)


Therefore, i guess there is no point to discuss somthing which we don't accept in Islam as a law whether it was altered or not. Nevertheless, our position as Muslims toward the Torah and Injil is just as prophet Mohammed told us to do so, not to believe all of it and to not reject all at the same time.


Peace and blessing,

The Truth

 

[Hacker]

Simply, anyone who hear the message of Islam and he/she ignored or refused it so he/she won't go to heaven which means, hell.

If the uncle of prophet Mohammed "who was defending him until he died" will go to hell because he refused to be a muslim so why anyone would think that he/she has an expection from this rule.

Regarding to the bible, it doesn't matter whether what we have now is the same as the original Torah and Injil or not because once Quran was revealed so that means there is no scripture is acceptable except the the Quran which came to confirm the Torah and Injil and become the only and final reveleation of God after the message of Jesus Christ "peace be upon him".

Allah says in the Quran ...

[48] To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the Scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have We prescribed a Law and an Open Way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single People, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you; so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute; (Surah 5)


Therefore, i guess there is no point to discuss somthing which we don't accept in Islam as a law whether it was altered or not. Nevertheless, our position as Muslims toward the Torah and Injil is just as prophet Mohammed told us to do so, not to believe all of it and to not reject all at the same time.


Peace and blessing,

The Truth

LOL, I'm strarting to believe that religion is absolutely LUDACROUS!!!! They even put scare tactics in your Holy book too, LOL,:biglaugh: what a shame those writers of these books are. I read some if the Koran last night and like the Holy Bible, there seems to be some pretty good teacings. Unfortunately, if one were to read either the Holy Bible or the Korean, I can see how easy it is to get brainwashed into one of the two and I don't know how anyone can't see that. Seems as thought they are SO desperate for followeres(Christians/Muslims). Religion is man made and it's SICK!! Why, because one half of the world is going to hell, WHICH ONE IS IT MY FREINDS??????? PLEASE, tell me what's your opinion on this?!?!?!? This just really irks me. I can't believe the absurdity. This is for BOTH religions truth, not just Muslim.

Note: Everyone reading this tread may already be aware of this stuff in this Koran, but I never even considered to learn more of the Koran(cause I knew they believed in the 7 virgins or something in the after life so I was like, AAHHHHHHHHH, no thanks and no offense to all of the men). But what has intrigued me is the rise in followers, so I wanted to learn more, after all I'm a follower of UU(which I respect all people for their beliefs but I do question them especially when I feel that someone's rights are being violated, which I do feel is the case with most Muslim women). But the more I find out, the more I think religion is fake. I'ts sad but true.

 

[TashaN]

Dear tlcmel, it's ok to feel as you do now and many other members were like you until they came closer and discuss what they think about as unfair or strange.

I invite you to see this thread which have most popular misconceptions about islam and i'm sure you will be interested to visit and enjoy reading it.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29382



And this one is about the virgin stuff you mentioned.
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=395229#post395229


Peace and blessing,

The Truth

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

You chose the username mujahid, and then expect to have your opinions of Christianity taken seriously? If a Roman Catholic man joined RF with the nickname "Crusader Jesus", would you even bother reading his posts in the Islam subforum?

So because of my name, you are trying to discredit me. So how about the brother Mujahid who was a scholar in the time of the Messenger. Are we going to discredit him because of his name. Also the name Mujahid means one who struggles for Allah. Your acusations based on a name which was commonly used in the time of the Messenger is very comical. Why crusader Jesus? How do the two names relate. Mujahid the name of a religious scholar on Quran or Crusader Jesus? Are you a relatively new muslim or were you born muslim. And to answer your question yes. If his posts in Islam had the correct information who cares what his name is. Very superficial in your answers, strange coming from a muslim.

I don't want to fight with you, and I'm not going to. For you and I to discuss this issue, we'll just end up running around in circles and annoying each other. We've both made our views clear, and that's enough.

I do not intend to fight but in your statement You really haven't made a point. Where is your evidence from our religion for the basis of your statements. these are just your opinions. Which is O.K. for you but in terms of defining our religion it is not. If you are going to speak on the behalf of Islam provide an evidence to support your theory that is all I am saying.

 

[TashaN]

I wished to know several things:

If that's so common an idea among Muslims (apparently it's not universal)

What some of the ideas are, and why people hold them.

And to look at the ideas where there are Muslims and Christians both present.

You can't do that on a Wiki article.

For that matter, it is unwise to trust the content of a Wiki article unless you know something about the subject to judge whether it's accurate or not.

So I thought I'd ask.

I agree with you ..

Frubals for the topic ..

 

[TashaN]

What better thing is there to define "What is Islam?"

In term of? or as a whole? which i think you know it already.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

The rate of growth in a religion is not an evidence in support of the religion, nor a reason to convert..."Come on, all the cool kids are doing it!" is elementary school logic.

True but it is why these people are coming to Islam. Because it is the truth. And not because all the cool kids are doing it.

I'm not sure how you personally can know who is going to be punished and who isn't, especially in light of the verse that another Muslim just posted, "Those who believe (in the Qur-an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians, any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." (Quran 2:62).
This seems like a pretty big indication that Christians and Jews are not doomed simply for being Christians and Jews.

The verse is saying you must believe in all the revalations. Do Christians and Jews believe in the Quran. Do they have the original uncorrupted scriptures given to them by their messenger. They do not believe in Allah and many deny the Last Day. And many people try to understand the Quran in terms of what they know or their own personal interpretation. The Quran is specific. There are reasons for the revalation and it is addresses certain people as well as events. These things one must know in order to interpret it correctly. Many do not and this is the problem.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Really?? I must have missed that part... unless it's where Jesus speaks of false prophets??

Thanks for a great thread, Booko... led to a fascinating discussion

What do you mean in terms of my quote you posted.

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

Mujahid, I applaud you for saying what Islam says and not trying to sugar-coat everything to fit people. I'd just like to say that the verse that people like to quote about the jews, christians, and sabians has been abrogated by the verse Mujahid quotes about Islam being the only acceptable religion.

Alot of muslims don't know or try to act like they don't know about abrogated verses. It took the Quran 23 years to be revealed in its entirety. Therefore it is progressive. Take for instance the verses about not coming to salaat while drunk. It was then abrogated by the command not to drink at all. Allah is only bringing people from one step to another so that they can accept the final step. The verse about Allah only accepting Islam came towards the end of wahi. Because Allah was pretty much finished revealing the entire Quran, it was then that He would no longer accept another thing other than that people submit themselves to Allah completely and believe in not only the messege itself but the prophet (saw) as well.....

 

[Snowbear]

What do you mean in terms of my quote you posted.

I was just asking Booko where in the Bible it says to expect Muhammed, which was a response to the post of yours.

 

[HopefulNikki]

True but it is why these people are coming to Islam. Because it is the truth. And not because all the cool kids are doing it.

That's how you perceive it because you happen to be Muslim. If all these people begin converting to Buddhism, will you suddenly admit that Buddhism must be the truth? Of course not.

The verse is saying you must believe in all the revalations.

No where in the verse does it say that. It says that those who believe in the Quran (Muslims), and Jews, and Christians, and Sabians, if they "work righteousness" and believe in Allah and the Last Day, have nothing to fear.

Do Christians and Jews believe in the Quran. Do they have the original uncorrupted scriptures given to them by their messenger.

The verse does not say that they have to have either of those things.

They do not believe in Allah and many deny the Last Day.

"Allah" is the name that Arabic-speaking Christians and Jews use of God, and did even before Muhammad; they most certainly believe in "Allah." Also, I've never met a Christian who didn't believe in a final day of judgement by God. Such people, according to the Quran, have nothing to fear.