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Islam calls for Muslims to not only fight for Allah, but to wish for death and martyrdom in the process.

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
The first 86 surahs of the Qur'an were created/revealed during Islam's first 12 years in Mecca as Mohamed tried, largely in vain, to convince the Pagans that he was receiving revelations from the 'one true god' via the angel Jabreel (Gabriel). Not once in those surahs did Allah so much as hint that fighting in His cause would become a requirement in Islam. It was not until Mohamed relocated to Yathrib (renamed to 'Medina' after he purged it of Jews) in the migration known as the Hijra (the start of the Islamic calendar) that blood-letting became first a part of Islam, and finally a requirement. Some call it the 'sixth pillar'.

When Mohamed began preaching to the Jews of Yathrib he challenged them in verse 2:94 to explain why they did not wish for death if they were indeed God's chosen people. He then scolded them in the next two verses for instead being greedy for life - "Say [to the Jews, Mohamed]: If the future abode with Allah is specially for you to the exclusion of the people, then invoke death if you are truthful. But they will never seek death, on account of the (sins) which their hands have sent on before them. and Allah is well-acquainted with the wrong-doers. Thou wilt indeed find them, of all people, most greedy of life even more than the idolaters [Pagans of Mecca]: Each one of them wishes He could be given a life of a thousand years: But the grant of such life will not save him from (due) punishment. For Allah sees well all that they do."

This was more than a mere rebuke of the Jews. It set the stage for preparing Muslims to accept the same logic. Rather than coming straight out and telling them to strive for martyrdom by fighting unbelievers, thereby gaining admittance to heaven, the Qur'an arrived there gradually. Verse 2:154 introduced Muslims to two new concepts; dying for "the cause of Allah", and assuring them that doing so would not in fact be death; but everlasting life - "Do not consider those who are slain for the cause of Allah to be dead. They are alive but you are unaware of them". After laying the groundwork, the Qur'an began to give explicit commands pertaining to fighting, dying, and the reward for doing so. This process occurred in four escalating stages:

1. Verse 2:216 - States that fighting is a requirement without yet broaching the subjects of martyrdom and admittance to heaven - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you."

2. Verse 4:74 combines the requirement to fight with the reward for dying in the process -"Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward." Note the phrase, "who sell this world's life for the hereafter". It hints at the bargain described in stage 4.

3. Next, it explicitly states that Muslims should not merely accept death as a possible consequence of fighting for Allah, but that they should wish for it. In recounting the disastrous Battle of Uhud, verse 3:143 says, "You were longing for death before you met it; now you have seen it, while you were beholding."

4. Finally, verse 9:111, one of the last in Islam's 22-year evolution, ups the ante. Previous verses tell Muslims that fighting assures them of admittance to heaven, but this one further states that it is actually a requirement - "God has bought from the believers themselves and their possessions against the gift of Paradise; they fight in the way of God; they kill, and are killed".

These verses, and many more like them, are never quoted by those who would sell us the lie that Islam is a religion of peace.
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
**** yeah!

dj-khaled-another-one-2979625425.gif
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
So
The first 86 surahs of the Qur'an were created/revealed during Islam's first 12 years in Mecca as Mohamed tried, largely in vain, to convince the Pagans that he was receiving revelations from the 'one true god' via the angel Jabreel (Gabriel). Not once in those surahs did Allah so much as hint that fighting in His cause would become a requirement in Islam. It was not until Mohamed relocated to Yathrib (renamed to 'Medina' after he purged it of Jews) in the migration known as the Hijra (the start of the Islamic calendar) that blood-letting became first a part of Islam, and finally a requirement. Some call it the 'sixth pillar'.

When Mohamed began preaching to the Jews of Yathrib he challenged them in verse 2:94 to explain why they did not wish for death if they were indeed God's chosen people. He then scolded them in the next two verses for instead being greedy for life - "Say [to the Jews, Mohamed]: If the future abode with Allah is specially for you to the exclusion of the people, then invoke death if you are truthful. But they will never seek death, on account of the (sins) which their hands have sent on before them. and Allah is well-acquainted with the wrong-doers. Thou wilt indeed find them, of all people, most greedy of life even more than the idolaters [Pagans of Mecca]: Each one of them wishes He could be given a life of a thousand years: But the grant of such life will not save him from (due) punishment. For Allah sees well all that they do."

This was more than a mere rebuke of the Jews. It set the stage for preparing Muslims to accept the same logic. Rather than coming straight out and telling them to strive for martyrdom by fighting unbelievers, thereby gaining admittance to heaven, the Qur'an arrived there gradually. Verse 2:154 introduced Muslims to two new concepts; dying for "the cause of Allah", and assuring them that doing so would not in fact be death; but everlasting life - "Do not consider those who are slain for the cause of Allah to be dead. They are alive but you are unaware of them". After laying the groundwork, the Qur'an began to give explicit commands pertaining to fighting, dying, and the reward for doing so. This process occurred in four escalating stages:

1. Verse 2:216 - States that fighting is a requirement without yet broaching the subjects of martyrdom and admittance to heaven - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you."

2. Verse 4:74 combines the requirement to fight with the reward for dying in the process -"Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward." Note the phrase, "who sell this world's life for the hereafter". It hints at the bargain described in stage 4.

3. Next, it explicitly states that Muslims should not merely accept death as a possible consequence of fighting for Allah, but that they should wish for it. In recounting the disastrous Battle of Uhud, verse 3:143 says, "You were longing for death before you met it; now you have seen it, while you were beholding."

4. Finally, verse 9:111, one of the last in Islam's 22-year evolution, ups the ante. Previous verses tell Muslims that fighting assures them of admittance to heaven, but this one further states that it is actually a requirement - "God has bought from the believers themselves and their possessions against the gift of Paradise; they fight in the way of God; they kill, and are killed".

These verses, and many more like them, are never quoted by those who would sell us the lie that Islam is a religion of peace.
Some don't like hearing that , and get quite offended but what can you do?

Martyrdom is certainly a thing with a fair number of religious folks. Especially Abrahamics and their blood cults.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
The first 86 surahs of the Qur'an were created/revealed during Islam's first 12 years in Mecca as Mohamed tried, largely in vain, to convince the Pagans that he was receiving revelations from the 'one true god' via the angel Jabreel (Gabriel). Not once in those surahs did Allah so much as hint that fighting in His cause would become a requirement in Islam. It was not until Mohamed relocated to Yathrib (renamed to 'Medina' after he purged it of Jews) in the migration known as the Hijra (the start of the Islamic calendar) that blood-letting became first a part of Islam, and finally a requirement. Some call it the 'sixth pillar'.

When Mohamed began preaching to the Jews of Yathrib he challenged them in verse 2:94 to explain why they did not wish for death if they were indeed God's chosen people. He then scolded them in the next two verses for instead being greedy for life - "Say [to the Jews, Mohamed]: If the future abode with Allah is specially for you to the exclusion of the people, then invoke death if you are truthful. But they will never seek death, on account of the (sins) which their hands have sent on before them. and Allah is well-acquainted with the wrong-doers. Thou wilt indeed find them, of all people, most greedy of life even more than the idolaters [Pagans of Mecca]: Each one of them wishes He could be given a life of a thousand years: But the grant of such life will not save him from (due) punishment. For Allah sees well all that they do."

This was more than a mere rebuke of the Jews. It set the stage for preparing Muslims to accept the same logic. Rather than coming straight out and telling them to strive for martyrdom by fighting unbelievers, thereby gaining admittance to heaven, the Qur'an arrived there gradually. Verse 2:154 introduced Muslims to two new concepts; dying for "the cause of Allah", and assuring them that doing so would not in fact be death; but everlasting life - "Do not consider those who are slain for the cause of Allah to be dead. They are alive but you are unaware of them". After laying the groundwork, the Qur'an began to give explicit commands pertaining to fighting, dying, and the reward for doing so. This process occurred in four escalating stages:

1. Verse 2:216 - States that fighting is a requirement without yet broaching the subjects of martyrdom and admittance to heaven - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you."

2. Verse 4:74 combines the requirement to fight with the reward for dying in the process -"Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward." Note the phrase, "who sell this world's life for the hereafter". It hints at the bargain described in stage 4.

3. Next, it explicitly states that Muslims should not merely accept death as a possible consequence of fighting for Allah, but that they should wish for it. In recounting the disastrous Battle of Uhud, verse 3:143 says, "You were longing for death before you met it; now you have seen it, while you were beholding."

4. Finally, verse 9:111, one of the last in Islam's 22-year evolution, ups the ante. Previous verses tell Muslims that fighting assures them of admittance to heaven, but this one further states that it is actually a requirement - "God has bought from the believers themselves and their possessions against the gift of Paradise; they fight in the way of God; they kill, and are killed".

These verses, and many more like them, are never quoted by those who would sell us the lie that Islam is a religion of peace.
Muslims are told that they are being asked to lay down their lives for the truth just like a person lays down his/her life for their country.. sura 2:190 which is deliberately omitted tells Muslims only to fight if they are attacked first meaning in self defense which is a cornerstone principle of all countries. To twist the Quran or rather words of God to suit a personal agenda is reprehensible to say the least and shows one deliberately chooses to distort the truth despite the Quran forbidding murder and premeditated killing. At least quote the verses in the Quran forbidding murder and only permitting fighting in self defense if you are a man of truth. For those who are unbiased and have no personal prejudice or bias it is abundantly clear that the Quran forbids all forms of killing and only permits self defence.

So who do we blame for terrorism? The same people we blame who fought wars and killed millions despite the Bible clearly stating ‘Thou shalt not kill’.

Peoples disobedience to the laws of the Holy Books is where terrorism and violence originate from not God, the Prophets or Holy Books which all call for man to be loving, peaceful and compassionate but man in his arrogance does not obey.
 

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
So

Some don't like hearing that , and get quite offended but what can you do?

Martyrdom is certainly a thing with a fair number of religious folks. Especially Abrahamics and their blood cults.

Too broad a brush. I am unaware of anything in either the OT or NT that is as explicit as the Qur'an in terms of desiring martyrdom, and certainly nothing that applies to today's followers. Only the Qur'an ticks both those boxes.
 

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
Muslims are told that they are being asked to lay down their lives for the truth just like a person lays down his/her life for their country.. sura 2:190 which is deliberately omitted tells Muslims only to fight if they are attacked first meaning in self defense which is a cornerstone principle of all countries.

And then 2:191, which is deliberately omitted, tells Muslims that self-defense is secondary to 'fitnah' as a reason to kill unbelievers.

More later. I'll bet you can't wait.
 

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
To twist the Quran or rather words of God to suit a personal agenda is reprehensible to say the least and shows one deliberately chooses to distort the truth

Please provide an example. I twisted nothing. I only quoted directly. Your gratuitous denials need work. You're very bad at this.

despite the Quran forbidding murder and premeditated killing.

LOL!! Killing an infidel is not considered murder in Islam. The Qur'an says "never is a believer to kill ANOTHER BELIEVER". I'll knock these soft-balls out of the park all day long. You seem to forget that I know exactly what the Qur'an says.

At least quote the verses in the Quran forbidding murder and only permitting fighting in self defense if you are a man of truth. For those who are unbiased and have no personal prejudice or bias it is abundantly clear that the Quran forbids all forms of killing and only permits self defence.

Only 2:190 says to fight in self-defense. And, as I've already shown, 2:191 immediately inserts gaurding against "fitnah' as being more of a reason to kill people for.

So who do we blame for terrorism? The same people we blame who fought wars and killed millions despite the Bible clearly stating ‘Thou shalt not kill’.

Ultimate whataboutism fail. The Qur'an says the equivalent of "thou SHALT kill" dozens of times.

Peoples disobedience to the laws of the Holy Books is where terrorism and violence originate from not God, the Prophets or Holy Books which all call for man to be loving, peaceful and compassionate but man in his arrogance does not obey.

**mod edit** The Qur'an has 6,236 verses. If what you say is true, then you should be able to fill page after page of examples.

1-2-3, GO!
 
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Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Too broad a brush. I am unaware of anything in either the OT or NT that is as explicit as the Qur'an in terms of desiring martyrdom, and certainly nothing that applies to today's followers. Only the Qur'an ticks both those boxes.
It depends when you think about Jesus, that is a form of martyrdom and many times Christ crucified is at times referred to as being an act of martyrdom.

It's no secret that many religious people, particularly missionaries, oftentimes die in ill-fated endeavors when in dangerous places and also are considered martyrs.
 

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
It depends when you think about Jesus, that is a form of martyrdom and many times Christ crucified is at times referred to as being an act of martyrdom.

The mythical character named Jesus was supposedly crucified. The story goes that he died to save people's souls.

When the Qur'an calls for martyrdom, it does so in the context of fighting and killing.

Now, I can't think of a bigger difference. Can you?

It's no secret that many religious people, particularly missionaries, oftentimes die in ill-fated endeavors when in dangerous places and also are considered martyrs.

Yup. That's consistent with everything I've said. They died trying to convert people, not kill them.

Again, there's that critical difference.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
And then 2:191, which is deliberately omitted, tells Muslims that self-defense is secondary to 'fitnah' as a reason to kill unbelievers.

More later. I'll bet you can't wait.
The problem is you don’t understand the context. Fighting is to fight those who have attacked the Muslims first or/and secretly betrayed them and broken their peace oaths and aided the enemy which is called treachery. Those who act peaceful towards Muslims of whatever faith are to be treated as friends. It’s a war that’s going on and so there must be provisions for treachery and those who openly profess to be allies but secretly aid enemies. But context is all important. The Quran teaches not to harm anyone who does not harm Muslims and to allow for people to have their different beliefs as long as they don’t persecute Muslims.
 

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
The problem is you don’t understand the context. Fighting is to fight those who have attacked the Muslims first or/and secretly betrayed them and broken their peace oaths and aided the enemy which is called treachery. Those who act peaceful towards Muslims of whatever faith are to be treated as friends. It’s a war that’s going on and so there must be provisions for treachery and those who openly profess to be allies but secretly aid enemies. But context is all important.

All you've done is double down on your previous claim while completely ignoring my comments about verse 2:191. Your do-loop has an extremely tight radius. Are you going to discuss 2:191 or not?

The Quran teaches not to harm anyone who does not harm Muslims

More of the same. Please explain 9:29's command to "Fight those who believe not in Allah".

and to allow for people to have their different beliefs as long as they don’t persecute Muslims.

No such verse exists. Please provide it.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
All you've done is double down on your previous claim while completely ignoring my comments about verse 2:191. Your do-loop has an extremely tight radius. Are you going to discuss 2:191 or not?



More of the same. Please explain 9:29's command to "Fight those who believe not in Allah".



No such verse exists. Please provide it.
In con text is to fight those who have committed treachery and broken their oaths for in other passages it says there is no compulsion in religion and that the believers of other religions who do good deeds will receive their reward. Nowhere in the Quran is there any form of punishment for those who do not accept Islam. One must quote out of context to try and play on others ignorance of the context. But I am not that one. I have knowledge of the proper context and so know that what you state is taken out of context and therefore untrue.
 

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
In con text is to fight those who have committed treachery and broken their oaths for in other passages it says there is no compulsion in religion and that the believers of other religions who do good deeds will receive their reward. Nowhere in the Quran is there any form of punishment for those who do not accept Islam. One must quote out of context to try and play on others ignorance of the context. But I am not that one. I have knowledge of the proper context and so know that what you state is taken out of context and therefore untrue.

You never discuss. You only proclaim. So, you're on your own. Bye.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
You never discuss. You only proclaim. So, you're on your own. Bye.
Only stating what’s in the Quran but in context. But you have to do a thorough study of the Quran before you are able to discuss with those who are knowledgeable because there is context for everything you’re misunderstanding except that you are not reading it.
 
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stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
Only stating what’s in the Quran but in context. But you have to do a thorough study of the Quran before you are able to discuss with those who are knowledgeable because there is context for everything you’re misunderstanding except that you are not reading it.

So you keep saying. I've been reading the Qur'an for 20+ years, so yes, I know a thing or two about context.

Are you going to acknowledge my comment about 2:191 or not? You're clearly afraid to.
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
The sort in which I give him an example to discuss and he doesn't ignore it in favor of simply repeating his claim. That sort.

You mean by telling you that you quoted a scripture out of context and explain how and why.

That's how conversations work sunshine.

With all the posts you make against Islam

I'm sensing you lost friends in the war. If that's the case, apologies.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
So you keep saying. I've been reading the Qur'an for 20+ years, so yes, I know a thing or two about context.

Are you going to acknowledge my comment about 2:191 or not? You're clearly afraid to.
It all comes down to context. If you study the Quran you would know that the only fighting is between those who have oppressed and killed Muslims not merely because of differing beliefs but you don’t know that because you haven’t read those verses which explain that so please get a proper education of the Quran before blindly condemning it. You’re only making a fool out of your ignorance online publicly.

“Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who did not fight you for your religion and did not drive you out of your homes. Verily, Allah loves those who deal justly” [8] “It is only in regards to those who fought you for your religion, have driven you out of your homes, and helped to drive you out, that Allah forbids you to take them as allies. And whoever takes them as Allies, then those are the oppressors” [9] Holy Quran, Surat (Al Mumtahina) Ch (60), verses (8-9)
 

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
You mean by telling you that you quoted a scripture out of context and explain how and why.

You don't seem to understand the difference between claiming and explaining. And you continue to give him a pass for refusing to recognize that I provided a quote in rebuttal to his claim.

With all the posts you make against Islam

I'm sensing you lost friends in the war. If that's the case, apologies.

I lose a friend every time a mujahid murders someone in the name of, and according to the instruction of, Allah.
 
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