Islam, how much do you really know about it?

[Luminous]

LORD JESUS is saying no one can come to him unless the father draws him. so unless GOD allows you to believe in him it will not happen.
i already believe in THE ONLY GOD(NOT three in one, like christian, nor infinity in one, like hindus.)

Faith is a gift from GOD to believe.
if you mean faith to believe in your type of believe, then IT better start dishing it out. -- Me: GOD, :help: please!

it is pretty simple any one who does not preach all the truth written in the bible and deciding on there own wisdom and understanding is not speaking right and true in the sight of GOD.
Do YOU not preach from your own 'wisdom and understading'?

 

[drs]

If i was to speak of my own understanding what I say would be meaningless, my only purpose in life now and forever is to serve the will of GOD with all the love and devotion of my heart and soul.

 

[Luminous]

Yes; and who better to 'understand' the will of God, than yourself? All wise one.:bow:

 

[Luminous]

Why are no Muslims teaching us about their view on Islam and what it is and how to follow it?

 

[Riverwolf]

what makes you think those that preach the bible untruthfully have the HOLY SPIRIT in them?

They've said so. Why should I believe you over them?

 

[drs]

that is exactly why I quote scripture so no one may accuse me of speaking what I think is right.
GOD speaks for himself in sripture and I am just giving you his words not mine.

 

[Riverwolf]

John 6

43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day


again you miss understand here LORD JESUS is saying no one can come to him unless the father draws him. so unless GOD allows you to believe in him it will not happen.
Faith is a gift from GOD to believe.


it is pretty simple any one who does not preach all the truth written in the bible and deciding on there own wisdom and understanding is not speaking right and true in the sight of GOD.

example people who decided not to speak on judgment and hell or don't believe in these things do not speak truth according to scripture.

I guess then there's no such thing as free will, huh? God has already decided on a whim who goes up and who goes down.

 

[drs]

you should not believe me over them you should go to the source the bible and read GOD's word for yourself.

 

[Riverwolf]

you should not believe me over them you should go to the source the bible and read GOD's word for yourself.

I do read the Bible. I enjoy it very much. There is much wisdom to be found there.

 

[abhimanyu]

look friend i do not wish to be rude or anything but has humanity appologised to the islamic followers for what they have done to us, have you guys learned your lesson and will you not repeat it. yeah right.

So, muslims distinguish themselves from humanity and mankind.And why is all of humanity against you guys! What is the reason for it.

You must also understand that the Sikhs never abused Islam, and was always tolerant and accepting of other religions. Tolerance of other religions is a fundamental principle of sikhism, and they never indulged in forceful conversions.

first off all i did say that i have no knowledge of that matter, i have never heard it untill now, the previous reply was just to give you some knowldge of why it may have happened and i did say that it is just a perspective of my own. so to go speaking about it will be a waste of time. i may end up saying something dissrespectfull so i think we should leave that matter. if you wish to make other questions then please do so, otherwise i cannot answer this for lack of knowledge reasons.

I am only asking whether Islamic society has learned from its mistakes of the past, and ensure that people and noble sages of other religions like Guru Arjan Dev and Guru teg Bahadur are not persecuted again. Has an institution been created for this purpose in Islam to set things right at least now?

and Muhammed (saws) was a mercy to human kind, he united people of bloodshed, he helped he needy and he helped the strong, and he helped the weak as well as the ritch. so why did people try to kill him and assasinate him, why did everyone turn his back to him whne he said "i am a prophet of Allah", his uncle turned aggainst him and so did everyone else. if you can answer this for me then you will have answered your own question for your self.

This was the internal bickerings of the Arabs, and has no concern whatsoever with the Sikhs and peoples of other religions .

The Sikhs were not harrassing anyone , yet they had to put up with the persecution of the Muslim Mughals for no fault of theirs, which eventually led to the creation of a martial disposition called the Khalsa, which successfully defended the Sikhs and other persecuted peoples from Islamic terrorism and fanaticism in those times.

 

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

What you believe in, I mean here evolution, is a mere fancy of a man, a creature of God, and what we Muslims believe is from God the Creator of humain beings and all the creatures that exist and the creator of the whole universe, who explained to us the story of our creation which is very simple.

What you believe to be a "fancy" is none for them.
What you believe to be God is a fancy for them.
What you claim to be the giver of explanations is a book made by man for them.
And what you call "explanation" is none for anybody.

 

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

my question is how can it be that the koran says GOD's covenent is with is with Ishmael when it clearly says in Genisis that is with Isaac?

It could be if the bible is wrong.
Of course also the quran could be wrong and the bible correct.
And of course ... both could be wrong.

 

[Sententia]

you should not believe me over them you should go to the source the bible and read GOD's word for yourself.

The bible offers no proof of many of its assertions. Reading the bible again and again will also not disprove evolution nor prove the existance of god.

The theory of evolution can be disproven and would be abandoned if a better theory existed or it may even change in light of new evidence but the bible does not offer either.

The facts that have been uncovered support the theory of evolution. (And do not actually rule out creation since the initial source of life is still under constant debate) We know for a fact that humans used to walk on all fours and have even identified the gene mutation responsible for such. In fact this mutation still even today pops up and humans still occasionally walk on all fours.

 

[Peace]

One could say the very same thing about the "Noble" Qur'an, for all your comment is actually worth, Peace.

But Peace, this is where Muslims fall flat on their faces, no pun intended, in that this is a supposition that is treated as reality. It cannot be proven, nor can it be disproven. Due that aspect alone to claim we are "a creature of god", as if it were an undisputable fact, borders on intellectual dishonesty.

Precisely so, in that it is only belief. It represents your collective "best guess", if you will. Again, you cannot prove what you, so ardently, believe! Invoking the Appeal to Popularity fallacy does not add a single shred of credibility to your belief, although it may be personally satisfying to know that others feel the way you do.

Again, we are back to the happy realm of supposition. There remains zero proof supporting this claim and to encapsulate all of reality within it is, in essence, meaningless conjecture based on the flimsiest evidence.

So simple, that it has virtually no merit or credibility, outside of the minds of Muslims.

You can believe what you wish, it doesn't change reality an iota.

I would also say you can believe what you wish, it won't change the truth which is apparent to us and may be covered for you :cover:

Perhaps one day you will understand that

I wouldn't say "perhaps" but for sure there shall come a day when you will understand that, if not here it will be there, you know where Paul, for you are a smart guy... we made a deal together once, remember? Don't worry I am still at my word and I will always keep it till we die and meet there in front of our Creator

 

[YmirGF]

I wouldn't say "perhaps" but for sure there shall come a day when you will understand that, if not here it will be there, you know where Paul, for you are a smart guy... we made a deal together once, remember? Don't worry I am still at my word and I will always keep it till we die and meet there in front of our Creator

I remember well, Peace. It will be a delightful time, I assure you. In fact, you have MY word on it. :yes:

 

[Sui]

Are you going to parrot an argument or do you have a unique perspective?

"Parroted" arguments in response to "parroted" conjecture - makes sense to me. However, I have no intention of turning this thread into an evolution discussion. Just some general points that come to mind:

A complex, fully formed, perfectly designed cell came from nothing? The nature of proteins? The small, limited and generally destructive process of mutation caused perfectly organized new species to form? Behavior and its origin? The fossil records are full of gaps and the subject of much dispute? Lack of transitional forms? Irreducible complexity? The Cambrian Explosion? The Information Theory? The fact that natural selection does not prove macroevolution? Lack of explanation for intelligence, consciousness, free will, etc?

I find it impossible to believe that such a wide, perfectly developed, diverse world originated through an unconscious system of pure accident and chance.

You should also know a rejection of evolution also does not prove creationism. It seems obvious I know.

Of course. I never said it would.

 

[Sui]

What you are really saying by "Firm believers" is stuborn followers of mans' words, instead of self inquiery. Yes, Darwinism is stupid; because it is a believe/religion. Evolution, however, is a part of science/reality.

Ah, so, because I believe in God and His books, I am nothing more than a "stubborn follower of man's words". Hardly. I find science fascinating and it is one of my favorite subjects to study, particularly biology. The teachings of the Quran do not conflict with proven science; in fact, it encourages people to study science in all its forms, so I do not see what the problem is.

Why are no Muslims teaching us about their view on Islam and what it is and how to follow it?

If anyone has a question, they should feel free to ask and one of us will do our best to answer it.

 

[yousaf]

i think you are right, do you know how i can move all of this there, or is it something that cannot happen. i still get confused about the forums, and i din't know this would turn this way



i have answered this question in your thread "Is it true that the kabba was a hindu temple" you posted this question there but if you wish i can copy it here.

and to add some extra things: all the prayers are different to each other, some have 4 rekat, some have 15 rekat, including the farz and the sunnah. the morning namaz has 4, the lunch one has 10, the one after it (the third namaz) has 8, the sunset namaz has 5 and the last one has 15.

our namaz doesn't effect our everyday life, but it is things in our everyday life that affects our namaz for example, work, havind to live in a non muslim country, etc...

i hope thats what you mean by examples.

zohar actually has 12 rakaats

 

[Sententia]

A complex, fully formed, perfectly designed cell came from nothing?

This is another strawman. You said it is designed, that the design is perfect and that it came from nothing. I find it hard to believe you have studied the theory of evolution at all. When I say you are parroting another argument it is because you seem to have no understanding of even the basic and fundamental ideas and just post conclusions from arguments you don't understand.

The rest of your post is filled with more fallicious nonsense. Strawman arguments, intelligent design propaganda... meaningless conjecture which has been hashed over several times.

I would reccomend you read some modern books on science. There are many which avoid religious discussion altogether and just discuss concepts in a way which is easy to understand. One I recently read was called your inner fish. A quick and exciting read about a simple student who dredged out into the world to uncover the past on his own. While I don't expect you to go visit museums or fossil hunting to argue evolution I would expect that you understand the theory you disagree with and have some evidence that disproves it. Some light reading would be great. I can suggest a lot more but am cautious to not have my own personal time exploited helping you understand what you are arguing against.

Truly I am not trying to convert anyone out of their religion but if you are going to argue against something and say its false you should atleast agree with your own argument. Right now your justification for disagreement has been false and none of your points disprove any part of evolution.

As an aside from evolution you should note that Einstein often fought against one of his own theories and perhaps you have once heard of his famous quote, "God does not play dice!" Einstein posited alternate theories and tried many variations to disprove his own conclusion but each counterargument only served to make his original conclusion stronger. What you are doing is similar except none of the arguments you have brought forth are logically sound and by repeating them you are revealing your hand. I can see you do not understand evolution... the true modern theory of evolution. You think you do but since you do not it makes you easy to ignore by not having anything of value or substance that supports your argument.

I hope I have explained where I am coming from. Honestly if you have an argument I would love to hear it but I think it would be better if you took some time to develop your argument first.

 

[Riverwolf]

"Parroted" arguments in response to "parroted" conjecture - makes sense to me. However, I have no intention of turning this thread into an evolution discussion. Just some general points that come to mind:

A complex, fully formed, perfectly designed cell came from nothing? The nature of proteins? The small, limited and generally destructive process of mutation caused perfectly organized new species to form? Behavior and its origin? The fossil records are full of gaps and the subject of much dispute? Lack of transitional forms? Irreducible complexity? The Cambrian Explosion? The Information Theory? The fact that natural selection does not prove macroevolution? Lack of explanation for intelligence, consciousness, free will, etc?

I find it impossible to believe that such a wide, perfectly developed, diverse world originated through an unconscious system of pure accident and chance.

Who says its chance?

Maybe God is guiding evolution the way he sees fit. Ever think of that?